The Biggest Problem With Pool

[Bamacues]

All Stars in Frederick makes it on table time alone. They have a little grill, but that is it. 100% all pool and nice gold crown tables. There are even a couple of 3 1/2 x 7 footers which stay occupied on busy days. A lot of players go there because it is just about pool. They have lots of leagues and Sunday tournaments with lots of players. I was surprised as you would be Purdman when I walked into the place. They just don't exist anymore.

Oops, I forgot about the pool hall in Hagerstown. Same deal - a grill, gold crown type tables, and as far as I know only pool players. Timberly and Joe Lolley live up there to correct me if I am wrong.

I keep remembering others, so forgive the editing. What about Ledgends (?) in Silver Spring? Pure pool hall, but the tables leave a lot to be desired.

Whitewolf, you are correct in that All Stars and Hagerstown Billiards are two of the true remaining "Pool Halls" in this area. Everything else is a sports bar/restaurant, etc. Both rooms have around 25 tables, mostly 9 footers, and have plenty of serious pool and leagues in house. All Stars league teams are real powerhouses when they go to the APA regionals in Baltimore each session and they usually get 5-6 teams to Las Vegas. Hagerstown Billiards has as good top level players, but don't have quite as many really good "mid-level" players. All Star usually has 45-50 teams a week.

 

[macguy]

this post may be long, abstract, but in my opinion happens to be a glaring and highly important and overlooked issue facing the serious pool player in america.
when a player walks into a typical pool hall establishment in the u.s.a. in 2005/2006 they will notice that the pool hall caters to the typical "i can't play to save my life/i'm on a date/pool is fun player.
which means that the cloth is worn, filthy filled with grease, and powder, the balls are old and pitted, and slow, the cushions are "funny/wrong" and all the equipment is off to say the least.
worse yet, the music is horrible and BLASTING the lighting above the table is carless, and the entire establishment reeks of "we do not care, most of you can't play anyway"
there seems to be two different types of pool halls in the usa, before the release of "the color of money", and post the color of money.
the pool halls before the color of money are filled with fat old bald men smoking stinky cigars, who have been at the same place since they were 7 years old, there is no music, men only and it is depressing and boring.
the pool halls post color of money are disco clubs, and night clubs that happen to have some pool tables in them somewhere, they are filled with loud blaring inappropiate music at rock concert volume, and feature dim sexy lighting for romantic couples on their first date.
in other words, YOU CAN'T WIN you simply can not win. if you play golf, the non-pro vs the PGA have everything the same, the course, clubs, and everything else is identical except the talent. people who play golf WANT to improve and all of them take lessons. there is no blaring music, or crazy distractions.
if someone wants to learn how to be a brain surgeoun they would do it in a quiet classroom and take it seriously. if someone want to learn anything or take anything seriously in this world, they would do it quietly, with care and respect.
to sum up what i'm saying, i am saying it doesn't matter if pool becomes huge or not, it matters that all current pool halls go out of business, close down and fail on there ass. then and only then can we re-build the pool hall, to fit the way it should be, in order for healthy growth. pool halls should have two clients ~~ players that are very good to excellent, or players who aren't good but want lessons. let's get rid of ball banging daters who go to pool halls for the music and food, for them i suggest going to a resturant and then to a club with music, stay out of the pool halls and stop ruining a great sport.
i as an ipt member find it harder and harder to get practice in due to all of the issues mentioned above. and as far as put it out of your mind, and play pool? why should i? it's time to reboot pool in american's minds, and return the game back to the "players" a hybrid between the old and new would work well for me, for instance, a pool hall with perfect condition tables, cloth etc. etc. that only plays soft classical or soft beatles music. they serve red wine, fine cigars, with big air filters so non-smokers can breath, host straight pool 3-cushion and 8-ball tournaments, and have many qualified certified pool instructers on hand, for people who want to learn. the pool halls should also have movie theatre arena seating with electronic score boards. in other words, let's get down and back to where pool should be going~~~ into a serious room with soft nice music with women that geniunely want to learn, and a room where pool is the main thing, not the music or the food, or the flirting. i know there will be lots of comments, so be it, i will not be a player in the current world. i shall give the ipt my best shot, but if the aura of the current day pool room doesn't change, then as a serious player, i shall bow out gracefully, Bernie Friend. IPT player since 2005

Funny, that is everything I like the most about the sport, it's diversity and it's appeal to almost every socioeconomic group. It has something for everybody. I am very sorry for you that you can't appreciate the sport unless it is catered just to you. I will be playing till the day I die I am sorry you will be leaving the sport and have to find another pastime, which is all it is, it's not a religion. With all due respect we used to have a name for guys like you, we called the "Pool Squares". It is not a knock on how they played just everything has to be perfect for them. I went on the road with a guy like that once and it was amazing, he couldn't beat anybody We had to put him on a bus home and this guy was a 100 ball runner and played all games jam-up. Jam-up on his favorite table in his favorite pool room with freshly polished balls and a freshly brushed table. On the road he was helpless, it showed his real speed as an all around player. Players like Danny D, Ronnie Allen, Grady and a bunch more are real players they can do it on command on any equipment under any conditions and get the cash. I like a nice pool room as much as the next guy but it really doesn't matter that much I will still play as long as it's pool, I'm happy..

 

[jbell]

Ok im gonna have to jump on bernies side alittle here cause what was once a GREAT room in my home town has turned into a FREAKING NIGHTCLUB complete with a dang live band and crap. Ok im fine with the bangers and daters and Alcohol sales but when you wont light the dang tables cause it makes the place SMOOOOOOTHHHHHHHH and you play music so loud the walls suck in then its time to decide, do i A.have a PoolRoom or do i b. have a ngihtclub. it really really really pisses me off when i go to get some practice and i have 4 or 5 people standing around watching me yelling out crap on the side and wanting to know what im gonna do and blah blah blah. I mean if your gonna enter a pooloroom you need to learn how to actually be part of the poolroom . My 8 year old son has played 4 times now and he knows more about the game than some of the so called grown men that this type place attracts. Oh and heaven forbid you ask for lighting to the room owner cause you knwo what you hear " Hell most of these people dont play as good as me so why would i worry about making it bright" OR " hell they dont know a red circle from a bar box ball why should i replace them all.

This is what i think some of bernies grief comes from and so does mine.

You owners take a Room over then to make a fast buck you turn them into a damn NIGHTCLUB if that is what you wanted buy one .

i know im not from a big town or anything but I have ran 2 rooms in the past NEITHER did I allow the music to blast out of control or any BS to go liek i watch in the newer rooms today and we did just FINE. We sold food and beer and had lots and lots of the younger crowd.

JEEZ sorry to vent but this topic hits VERY VERY close to me right now.
If i had the cash i could build a THRIVING business in this growing town with a normal room .We have lost atleast 10 players that i knwo of from coming to this room due to the lighting music and TOTAL BS that live bands and crap bring. And guess waht we here from the owner BIG FAT DEAL im making money. seems to me 10 paying customers unhappy will tell atleast 5 people each about this crap that = 50 and it will never stop. Christ it burns me up im done sorry feel free to flame me to death i dont care just had to vent.

 

[Travis Bickle]

The real problem with pool is PEOPLE!
Without them there would be no problem.

Hey Saddam, glad to see yer posting again!
I thought your original quote ... please don't shoot me if I get it wrong! ... was: "Where there's a person, there's a problem. Where there's no person, there's no problem."

This is beautiful logic, we've all got to admit, no matter how it would affect the pool hall biz.

 

[Renegade]

I share the opinion of macguy. but to play devil's advocate a minute, it can be argued that

"Danny D, Ronnie Allen, Grady and a bunch more are real players they can do it on command on any equipment under any conditions and get the cash"

only because they were able to practice in more suitable conditions so much and became so good at it that ambience and environment has become a non-issue.
But then, it has always been bandied about in this forum that one of the reasons why jose,efren, alex, and the rest of the members of the filipino invasion are so good is because they are from a poor, third world country where pool hall conditions were so bad -- open air, humid environment, tattered cloths, stiff rails, crooked tables, etc.

So,

If you're into pool for recreation and relaxation, then by all means play in a poolroom with ideal conditions. But if you want to one day be as good as the rest of the pros, then better get used to unfavorable conditions.

 

[macguy]

I share the opinion of macguy. but to play devil's advocate a minute, it can be argued that

"Danny D, Ronnie Allen, Grady and a bunch more are real players they can do it on command on any equipment under any conditions and get the cash"

only because they were able to practice in more suitable conditions so much and became so good at it that ambience and environment has become a non-issue.
But then, it has always been bandied about in this forum that one of the reasons why jose,efren, alex, and the rest of the members of the filipino invasion are so good is because they are from a poor, third world country where pool hall conditions were so bad -- open air, humid environment, tattered cloths, stiff rails, crooked tables, etc.

So,

If you're into pool for recreation and relaxation, then by all means play in a poolroom with ideal conditions. But if you want to one day be as good as the rest of the pros, then better get used to unfavorable conditions.

I think all sports are a little the same, In golf they play on all kinds of courses with wind sometimes a light rain, conditions changing from hour by hour. Ice skating sometimes the ice can be terrible as the day wears on. Football forget about it they play in blinding snow storms. The ability to adapt is a big factor in every sport. Pool is not that bad as things go. Maybe a table that is a little worn or has a roll or two but for the most part pool rooms have nice equipment nowadays. I can see where Bernie is coming from but it is not worth quitting the game over. I like the social as well as the physical aspect of the game. I like being around players, talking pool and often, although I don't do it much any more, just hanging out at the pool room. It is a complete subculture and a like being a part of it.

I am sorry Bernei hates us so much but that is what pool is I would not want it any other way. The last thing I want to do is go into a pool room that is like a library with pool police all over the place telling me how to act. I remember playing in tournaments in Europe and I have to ware the black pants and white shirt like a bunch of clones. People like the color of the players as long as they aren't obnoxious and look decent who cares. His comments about the pool rooms is ridiculous, who does he think pays the bills so the rest of us have a place to go, all those players he doesn't like. They are the only thing keeping the places open, otherwise pool would really be back played in dives where the rooms were located in low rent districts and he definitely would not want to go there. Maybe they have them in England but we don't have private clubs here where pool is played. He subliminally weaves the IPT through his posts and I am afraid the dreams of riches and fame may be making him forget why he began playing the game in the first place, he loves to play the game. It sounds now like for Bernie it is becoming a job and he is succumbing to the pressure of having to keep his spot in the IPT and all the expense of traveling to the tournaments the endless practice and so on and it is already taking a toll on him. Lighten up Bernie it is just a game.

 

[supergreenman]

I'll play anywere

That is as long as there isn't karoke going on.

That sh*t drives me snakey.

As a matter of fact they should ban it from anyplace that people throw sharp objects, heavy round objects or carry wooden sticks just to avoid homicides.

 

[macguy]

I'll play anywere

That is as long as there isn't karoke going on.

That sh*t drives me snakey.

As a matter of fact they should ban it from anyplace that people throw sharp objects, heavy round objects or carry wooden sticks just to avoid homicides.

I used to drive 100 miles about every two weeks to play in a disco when disco was big. The table was on the edge of the dance floor and had no direct light over the table just what ever light was in the room and that included the spinning mirrored ball. They used to play like 20 and 50 a game on Saturday nights but you had to be able to put up with the deafening music no lights to get the money. I will tell you another time about playing a Seminole Indian in the everglades on an open air table under a canopy with 100% humidity and a million bugs attracted by the light buzzing around the table, the balls would actually bounce over them. It was the only place he would play so I had to go there. I also was with a guy from NY who had the Indians so pissed they wanted to kills us we were lucky we made it out of the glades. This is no joke by the way, the guy I was playing did get killed over a pool game out there about a year later by another Indian.

 

[Gregg]

well for me, for instance, a pool hall with perfect condition tables, cloth etc. etc. that only plays soft classical or soft beatles music. they serve red wine, fine cigars, with big air filters so non-smokers can breath, host straight pool 3-cushion and 8-ball tournaments, and have many qualified certified pool instructers on hand, for people who want to learn. the pool halls should also have movie theatre arena seating with electronic score boards.

Your out of touch.

Before bringing up the Beatles, who are great but were not universally accepted among older folks, don't blast todays popular music. There is a reason why it's popular.

 

[Timberly]

It all depends on what you mean by "makes it".

I would be curious to see the profit sheet - the bottom line.

With all the work, time, worry, aggravation and responsibility that go into owning/running a pool room there better be a substantial profit. Breaking even sucks.

How much profit would be enough for you to open a room?

Jake

In today's world, you can't buy a room & furnish it & live off the table time. Some of the older rooms can do it because the equipment is paid for. Hagerstown has the luxury of serving beer & they have a grill that serves up decent food at a decent price. I always enjoy going to this pool room. Cross over the state line into PA and it's a different world. The laws in this state are so weird & stupid, the taxes so high, that I can't imagine anyone wanting to open up any business! However there is a pool room not too far from where I am that doesn't (can't) serve alcohol, & they don't have a grill....they have candy, chips, soda, & a microwave. I think they offer fresh sandwhiches made from a loaf of bread. The rest of their income is table time. They have something like 16 nine foot tables, 2 billiard tables, 2 eight foot tables and a bar box if I'm not mistaken. Obviously, they get mostly teens on the wkend. I was talking with the owner last week about this room. He said on a sat night, he can make $700 (I don't know what he makes the rest of the time). You can look at it two ways... you can compare it to, A) making $700 in one night (I could live with that) and think the guy does ok in life and be happy for him. Or you can look at the pool room I worked at in TX that was not only open 24 hrs but they served Beer, Wine, liquor, sandwhiches served from a loaf of bread, nachos, & and air fryer which can cook most things that are usually deep fried... they make about $5000 on a sat night. "Making it" depends on whether the equipment is owned and whether one is content to make $700 on Sat or if they feel they have to make $5000. Each person's needs vary.... the guy making $700 on Sat seems quite happy with it and content on where he is in life, as is the guy making $5000....