the blue joke
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iconcue said:
I got that answer you were looking for,send the BB and I'll let you know.STB
iconcue said:
I find your post a little on the hilarious side. As a "collector" you should know what the Blue Book of Cues is all about. Unless of course, you're a rookie.
The Blue Book of Cues does a lot of greate things. Ironically, the least of which is to give any hints of cue costs. It's been like that since Blue Book I.
Fred <~~~ hardly ever looks at the prices
iconcue said:
i totally agree with all you said.
but i do understand the spot brad was in, although i believe quality should of come first.
i was very dissapointed they werent updated, some still have wrong info from the last one.
no to mention the pics of the tillis's ????? 2 out of 6 aint bad.
they still didnt spell doc frye's name right or give him a first name.
oh well.
iconcue said:
Jeff,
After thumbing through my copy this week....I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
My personal opinion.....not to take anything away from the author, publisher, or staff because it was obviously a massive undertaking due to its size and number of new listed cuemakers. While a lot of the pricing is very accurate, there are indeed many inaccuracies.
Based on the credits, I can only surmise that the pricing was handled by a very limited number of individuals, without adequate checks and balances. A better approach would have been a collaborative effort between knowledgeable and active cue dealers, brokers, collectors, and makers where as many people as possible had input. This way, you minimize bias and the potential for an individual or a few individuals having too much influence over the value of their own cues or cues that they deal in exclusively. This however would have taken more time, and it complicates matters somewhat that the cue market has been in a state of flux for the last few years. No system is ever perfect, but it can always be better.
Here's one example of what I perceive as a pricing error for secondary market values. It says that a level 5 (26-50 inlays) B.Szamboti starts out in 98% condition at $4000 and a comparable cue from J.Hercek starts out at $5500.
Are these backwards? OK, I love both of these cuemakers and their work, but IMO this is not accurate nor is it reflective of what's happening in the market. And I think most readers would agree.Some may think and say that all cue dealers must be overjoyed. I disagree. From a consumer standpoint, I think most of us would have waited a little longer and paid a little more for something that is more accurate. I think that would have been best for all stakeholders and given some more credibility to that which we all enjoy.
Sean
In Brad's defense, he paid to get pictures taken and paid the persons expenses to gather pictures and info. The person did not produce a book and the publisher threatened to sue Brad if he did not produce a book by a certain date. So he picked up the mess that was left him and did the best he could. Don't shoot this thing in the foot or never expect to see a forth edition. If Brad can make this one profitable he might produce a better forth edition in a few years. The Blue Book sells cues. That is the bottom line. Some pricing will be off. We have to live with that but remember the bottom line is the Blue Book helps promote cues. That is good for everyone.iconcue said:
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
I think the living cue makers shown in the book need to be responsible for their own sections, with a board of cuemakers and brokers quickly reviewing the info for for accuracy. The board could also serve as the experts for the deceased cue makers. I is a monster task to produce this book. Brad needs more help and should expect more help. As previously posted, accuracy is the paramount concern. Future editions should be easier to produce because the foundation is there, just update the pricing and add some new cuemakers. However, maybe someone could just produce a 500 page full-color coffee table book of photos of tons of awesome cues from a multitude of cuemakers. That would be fun! Perhaps the market is just too fickle, filled with buyers devoted to certain makers (cue groupies) that will pay anything for certain cues while shunning other obvious masters.
cueman said:
this is probably one of the reasons why in the first two editions there was nearly a blurb and in the third a small amount of info about Pete Tascarela who i and a good freind of mine, the late John Wright, conciderd one of the top living cuemakers. i can see why Pete might have wanted to avoid the first two editions and not want to be fully involved in the third.
iconcue said:
I agree with you Jeff, but it's been the same problem on each book. The people who are involved are either underqualified or have an interest in driving certain cue values up. I think most who know the players know exactly who I'm talking about. There seems to be a very large problem with the pool industry in general, we have experts yet we choose not to use them and try to create new experts. Some of the experts we have are money driven and can easily be bought and as another post said many people have their favorites and are biased towards them. The BB should be used as a guide to find cuemakers and to get their contact info and nothing more. It's sad when you can buy your way to being an expert, in reading the credits I can't help but laugh at the list of names, some of whom have only been in the cue biz less then 3 years. I never expect the pricing to be 100% but can we at least get it close and leave the friendships out of that. As far as the person who said you need to let the living guys set their own prices, well that's almost as bad, I said we need honesty and to most cuemakers this is one giant advertisment. You know what they say about truth in advertising. Rush job or not I doubt you'd see many changes.
Jim
BillYards said:
The living cuemakers WERE responsible for their own sections! Each submitted their information and photos to the author. The original author (Martyne Bachman) screwed the whole thing up by not completing the project, also by not providing that info to the current author (Brad SImpson). He, in my opinion, in turn did a very poor job of verifying the info he received from Bachman, also by not going on to verify what he did have. Up to date contact info was omitted in some instances, recent photos of several makers work was not included, incorrect credit for photos was given (as stated in a previous post). All in all, it was a poor piece of work brought about by the rush to finish by an already missed deadline. If it were a pool cue, I would not accept it!
"a board of cuemakers and brokers quickly reviewing the info for for accuracy"?
Don't you think that would be the perfect scenario for an inflation of prices?
"Brad needs more help and should expect more help".
I personally know of three cuemakers that offered help, it was not accepted.
"Future editions should be easier to produce because the foundation is there"
The "foundation" was there with the 1st & 2nd edition. What happened?
"However, maybe someone could just produce a 500 page full-color coffee table book of photos of tons of awesome cues"
I read in a previous post that Martyne Bachman spoke at the show in Palm Beach, and stated she intended to do that very thing. Anyone want to invest in that project?
There will be a lot of broken dreams in Valley Forge this year...
Joe
Joe
merylane said:
Yeah, every year we get alot of customers that tote the BB around like its the bible. The issue when buying a cue and you have someone referencing the BB, thats the price they expect. Now if its way high, well you're going to get way dissapointed as a seller.
Joe (---this ain't Becketts
jazznpool said:
Martin,
I am not Greenspan.. lol but I think the lull will continue. I would like to think that the BB3 would be a shot in the arm. It maybe and it may not be. But the lull is not all what its cracked up to be. I think with so many choices, numerous cue dealers, and new cuemakers that come out weekly, I think its a large part of the lull.
Joe (---not to commital..
iconcue said:
Jeff
This is the best recommendation I have read in this entire thread.
So taking this thread now in a positive direction:
How can we as interested members of the billiard community turn this around and possibly provide a much more useful product (whether in print or on line) to those who are still not educated in the prices on the secondary market?
Thanks,
Myron
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