The DCC, and the Future of Pool

Worminator

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The Jimmy Mataya thread prompted me to start this thread, something I have been thinking of since I arrived back from the DCC. As I stated in the Jimmy Mataya thread, the DCC is a great event for those who know pool, and have been around the game for a while. It is not an event that is going to elevate pool to the next level. I am going to list some observations I made while attending this year. View them as a potential sponsor and try to decide if pool is the sport you want to enter into a marketing partnership with.

1.I’ll just start off with the likes of Jimmy Mataya. These type of people were running around the tournament wolfing, cussing, and overall just being obnoxious and belligerent. They were disrupting matches and nothing was done to stop them.

2.Blatant gambling around every corner. Guys calling out like carnival barkers…who wants $100 action on this match, we have $10K action over here, etc. Players cussing and arguing with each other about the game, weight, rulings, etc. Even the tournament director would call out where there was a money match and everyone would flood to that match, leaving no spectators watching the actual tournament matches.

3.The rooms where the gambling action took place were like a pig pin. The hotel staff could not get into these rooms to clean them up because there were people there 24/7. Some of these rooms were on the main floor, just outside the hotel lobby.

4.The ring games were promoted as “action’ games, emphasizing the gambling aspect of the game. I believe in the first ring game (maybe one of the other ones also) the money came from sponsors, but it was not promoted as such IMO.

5.I heard a lot of talk about how pool is a better sport than golf. That the players should be earning the same kind of money as PGA golfers. In general, most of that talk was intended to “put down” professional golf while doing nothing to help elevate the game of pool.

These are just a few of my observations. Please do get me wrong; I’m not on some kind of “high horse” here. I stayed up the first 44 hours that I was there watching the action. But it occurred to me while I was there, and on the drive home, that there are a lot of us that love the game and want it to become a major sport. We want to see more pool on TV instead of the ‘Worlds Strongest Man competition”. We want the tournament earnings potential to be more lucrative for the pro players so they do not have to rely on gambling to make a living. If we want to elevate pool to professional golf status (not necessarily to PGA Tour level, but at least to a Nationwide Tour level), there is a lot that has to be done to shed the “dark poolroom” image of pool. Sponsorship is the only way it will ever happen. Pool does not currently have the image that corporate sponsorship is looking for.
 
Chicken and egg question. If sponsors were actually interested, pool would clean up enough to keep them on board probably. Just like I think the WPT had to change a few practices that go on in unsponsored poker tournaments. Since sponsors aren't interested since the game isn't popular, it doesn't matter. Pool needs to find something to get people willing to commit the time and effort to get decent. The only reason pro golf exists as it does is that millions of amateurs love it and spend time and money on it. That's all. If that doesn't happen there is no hope. If it does, the game will get cleaned up.
 
I agree, some interesting 'nice' points.

From my observation, there is still quite a percentage of pool players that continue to maintain and promote the "dark poolroom" image as some sort of initiation to the sport. It seems like their feelings are that you've got to invest your time, money (some of which is based on the darker side of pool) before you are invited to be come an accepted member.

I realize that some of these folks are just trying to get by. Others are wannabe 'hustler's'.

The good part about all of this is that there are still plenty of folks that just enjoy the game for the fun of it. Some make a point of meeting up several times a week at the local pool hall / bar just to be among friends, others play on 'recreational' leagues, and others just play to play.

Are any of the above mentioned folks wrong? I don't think so. Golf has its "darker side" too. There are still plenty of golfers that not only put something on the game to make it 'more interesting' but also meet up at the bar after a days golfing to drink (or not) and play pool while looking at pool as if it were some sort of inferior game all the while using some pretty bad sportsmanship themselves. This is certainly not a statement of all golfers but there are many that I have seen which exhibit at least some of the above 'bad' traits. Keep in mind that golf has a television audience on a regular basis. Viewers of pool have yet to support pool in the same ways that the golfing audience does.

We must all see that while pool is the main mechanism to make money for some people, it is not like that for everyone. I support pool by going to local tournaments, investing in learning about the game and the players (both male and female). I believe that there are other 'fans' out there with similar feelings as well.

However, if you were to take out the gambling aspect of the game, the stands would almost empty of the non-sponsors. I think this to be true because many people in the stands are not there just for the game but are there to look for their latest 'horse' (either at the tournament or after).

Pool on TV in the U.S. is trying to make it and I watch it whenever possible. But, I do not recall hearing any of my non-pool playing friends saying that they really had to watch the pool match on later 'today'. Many of my pool playing friends actually do really try to watch pool matches.

There is a lot of compitition for the entertainment dollar at this point-in-time. Pool is but one of these entertainment industries. As such, gambling on pool games / players is part of that entertainment.

I hope that pool is able to transition to the mainstream of the entertainment dollar (with this will bring the 'big buck' many players probably deserve). Unfortunately, with events trying to capture the television audience with visions of wholesomeness while the 'darker' side is also continuing, pool is bound to continue to experience both ups and downs.

I hope we start getting a sample of more 'ups' than 'downs' soon.

Forgive my rambling.

May all of your rolls be good ones, Jerry
 
Pool is on tv more than most people realize. Fox sports pack on Directv and Dish network carry 2 channels-- Empire sports and the Sunshine network who both carry Billiard network and the programmming is much better than ESPN. I have watched the US Open and matches from the Mosconi Cup recently. Some cable companies may carry these channels too. What the pool players need to do is tell 10 people to write ESPN, Empire and Sunshine and tell them MORE POOL PLEASE. If the stations can show more viewers requesting it, they can more easily sell ads. Further, lets ask our 10 friends to to ask other friends or relatives to request the same.
I sell and service satellite systems and constantly hear from customers how much they love watching the Black Widow or the Duchess of Doom battle it out with the 3 or 4 other players from the womens tour who make the tv rounds. And this from non- players. What do you think? Sam
 
The Future of Pool

Everyone is making good points about sponsors. However, unlike the other proffesional sports pool doesn't have 1 governing body. I'm not sure how many there are but without one single set of rules and standards that each tournament and tour most abide by I don't think big sponsors will Knock down pools door. Just a thought.
 
having spent several years of my life as a Golf Professional (assistant Pro at Colonial Country Club in Ft. Worth Texas) I can truly say that gambling is also a way of life in that sport too, but somehow doesn't come off as a dirty.

But remember this, there's a big difference between a dingy smoke filled room & a beautifully landscaped park. And most times an absolutely magnificent 19th HOLE is the scene of high dollar gaming.

Golf was a game for the rich, just a Billiards used to be. Every Golf Course on the planet has your hustlers, just like the Pool Rooms, but again the scenery is better. If you will think about it... look at the hoards of people that flock to casinos around the planet to "try their luck". People also think that if the rich are doing it, it must be good. People enjoy rubbing shoulders with the rich, there's always a chance of something rubbing off.

If gambling made the sport bad, the frigging Stock Market would be like a "shithole" to businessmen worldwide, but everyone likes the rush, that a risk provides. A $30,000 ring game on ESPN would garner more TV Audience than any poker game.... because of one thing... the folks are DOING SOMETHING that requires talent. There's NO BLUFF shooting a 3-railer for $500 a player. Once the audience arrived, the RING GAME would go to 50K, then a 100K, then who knows...

One other thing... just about every golf course on the planet has someone offering to give lessons, so that your game & enjoyment increases. But, there's not 500 teachers listed on the BCA Instructors list (active & inactive), worldwide. There's literally 2 dozen Pool Halls withing a 50 mile radius of my home & no one offers lessons. I can only imagine how many beer joint players have a $300 or higher Pool cue & no idea how to use it.

When the entreprenuers give back some of what they take & all of the equipment folks band together as sponsors & Frito-Lay, Budweiser & the rest of the concession folks are corraled to cough up some sponsor money, you'll see a lot of UPSCALE Beautiful Pool Rooms & Big Dollar Tournaments.

Money gets everybody's attention.... cb
 
Worminator, let me ask you a question? Why did you go to DCC? Lets see was it because of the constant action there? I would think so. So Why is it you would want to make pool something it is not for TV? The way they are showing pool on TV sucks! Don't you think pool would attract more viewers if the gambling aspect was shown and explained to the unfamiliar eye? Why do you think the World Series of Poker has become so popular? Its because people are fascinated with the gambling.
When I take a friend to a pro tournament and explain to them everything thats going on from after hours action, backers, sweaters, players woofin at each other, and pool terminology they are totally fascinated with the whole lifesyle that surrounds this game. But the people trying to promote pool turn their back on the very thing that makes pool unique. This game will never get there they way it is now being promoted and I don't know how many years it will take these people to figure that out.
 
A couple of things I see:

Lack of variety on TV. Basically the same 4 or 5 players playing the same game (9 ball) over and over. Rarely see mens matches.

The general public shoots 8 ball more than anything else. Some type of 8 ball format thrown in occassionally would help the viewers relate.

Need the sponsoring organizations to promote more. NASCAR didn't just suddenly become popular. NASCAR itself spent tons promoting. Back when I was in racing (60's) you were an uneducated hillbilly if you raced. Promotion and 'cleaning up their act' changed all that.

More prize money. This would have to grow slowly but without it - why should Henry the Hustler give up the road when he's making more money than the #1 ranked player (plus, Henry ain't payin' Uncle cause it's all cash).

I agree with the other feeling that that the profanity and blatant gambling needs to be quite and out of view at a media event. Keep it to your local hall or bar where everyone is accustomed to it.

Just a few thoughts, Pel
 
thebigdog said:
Worminator, let me ask you a question? Why did you go to DCC? Lets see was it because of the constant action there? I would think so. So Why is it you would want to make pool something it is not for TV? The way they are showing pool on TV sucks! Don't you think pool would attract more viewers if the gambling aspect was shown and explained to the unfamiliar eye? Why do you think the World Series of Poker has become so popular? Its because people are fascinated with the gambling.
When I take a friend to a pro tournament and explain to them everything thats going on from after hours action, backers, sweaters, players woofin at each other, and pool terminology they are totally fascinated with the whole lifesyle that surrounds this game. But the people trying to promote pool turn their back on the very thing that makes pool unique. This game will never get there they way it is now being promoted and I don't know how many years it will take these people to figure that out.

I agree with both you and Ceebee. I think the best way to make pool appealing to TV viewers is to capitalize on the gambling aspect. And, I think the best vehicle for that is the ring game. Get the Earthquake out there and some of the other more colorful players like the Rocket and put up some big cash and let the players go. Don't hold them back like they did at DCC. Let them BS with one another. Let their personalities and talent shine on the tube. I think that along with the fact that in a ring game, you have to shoot the shot to make it. These players will start showing off some incredible shots and that will also make the game appealing to watch. That bar pool 8 ball player sitting on his couch is going to freak out when he sees the game played at the pro level. Safety, hooks and ducking is not helping people to appreciate the game.
 
CeeBee: I don't believe I mentioned, or insinuated, that there is no gambling going on in golf. I play a lot of golf in the summer, and play at some of the nicest country clubs in the area. I can tell you without reservation, there are not the kinds of hustlers at those clubs like the kind you find at pool tournaments. Is there gambling going on...yes. Is there a bunch of goons like Jimmy Mataya running around cussing, wolfing, and disrupting everyone's game...no. Yeh, there's an occasional idiot that has too many Scotch & Waters and get's loud, but it doesn't happen that often where I play. Are there "action" matches going on on the side at a PGA tournament, while the tournament is going on...no. If a PGA tournament turned into a gambling spectacle like the DCC, the sponsors would run as fast as they could. I believe ring games on TV could bring more interest to the sport. I can also tell you that most people will not get interest if they are playing for $30K, when you can watch PGA golfers compete for $1.5M first place prize money. If a pro makes the cut in a PGA event he is nearly guaranteed $30K.

the bigdog: I went to the DCC to see the best players in the world play the game. I would much rather see them compete for a total purse of $2,000,000 than to watch them hustle to make a living. I saw Efren giving some guy 9 to 3 in One Pocket. I would much rather see Efren and Cliff Joyner battling it out for $300,000 1st place prize money. I guarantee you if the prize money for the tournaments was $2,000,000, you wouldn't see guys staying up all night gambling. They would be focused on winning the tournament where the big prize money is. The only way that will ever happen is sponsorships from the Pepsis, Budweisers, and FedExs of the world.

Pool is a great game. I hope someday it is a game where I can take my son to a tournament and not have to worry about him hearing the kind of crap I heard at the DCC on a daily basis. We go to several PGA events a year, and I never have to worry about taking him to those tournaments.
 
I accept your modification of my statements, ...in my defense I will say this. I was trying to say that honesty, integrity, civility & consideration aren't the attributes that make Golf a BIG SPORT. BIG MONEY made Golf a Big Sport. While there may be violations of conduct in some foursomes, generally the same four men or four women won't cross the lines in the Clubhouse.

The rules of High Society place more constraints on the participants & contestants of the Professional Golf World. Adherence is a mandate.

Most of the upscale Pool Rooms I've been to have come a long way. Boston Billiards is a case in point. They expect civil conduct & while some of these upscale establishments clamp down on gambling, a good time can still be had. I think they restrain gambling to keep the likes of Mataya & others like him out.

While there may be questionable language spoken in any home, no one likes to hear it on the street or in any establishment. Having a spouse or child attend a Big Tournament with you & have them see & hear some filth is not going get too many returnees, you are correct.

When I think about it, I laugh inside thinking someday the High Society Pool Rooms might sound like a bunch of Brit's telling one another off at a Cricket Match....

Your ideas about corraling the BIG COMPANIES for sponsor money is also my PET PEEVE. The beer companies, candy companies, chip companies & pop companies owe us... we've been donating for 80 years, with nothing in return but advertiising to sell more product. Imagine the Pool Room Owner telling the route salesman, "these guys ain't gonna drink any more Bud until Budweiser has a $100,000 Pool tournament... Ha!Ha!Ha!
 
I think that pool is just doomed to make it as a mainstream sport, but i do believe that forums like this with billiards enthusiasts discussing it is a start to making it one. I pondered this ? about pool and what it would take to become a mainstream sport and this is what i came up with, only shot it has today is for some billiards enthusiast to hit a large lottery jackpot, and then out of boredom start either their own tour or a single event worth millions. This would create more interest and possibly draw in some major sponsers. Without this possibility i could say that pool in the next 20 years will not become mainstream, one thing that needs to happen is that the general public needs to become more iformed about pool, the game, the history, and what it really takes to become a top notch player.
The more people know about pool I think the more likely that they will be interested in not only watching it but playing it as well. And reading about golf and how succesful it is, but golf has Tiger Woods, yes it was popular b4, but he took it to another level. Look what michael jordan did for basketball, and then now look at basketball and how it's not peaking anymore. It's says a lot about our society how Tim Duncan cannot carry basketball because he plays a pure game, and doesn't really do anything flashy or show boat.
Contemplating this I could say that pool doesn't lie in the hands of sponsers but in our youth, getting kids to learn how to play pool. And now saying that, lmao, from my experiences in the places where kids play pool, this isn't going to happen, you think adult players are bad at sharking people try playing with some teenagers, pool is just screwed. Theres a younger player i used to play with that was really good, and he would constantly try to hustle me to get me to bet more money, i finally just told him if he dogged one more shot i wasn't going to gamble with him anymore, face it pool is doomed.
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I think everyone has good points. I can see both sides because I am on both sides. I am a pro player but I don't make alot of money so I gamble as well. Would I like to see things change? Yes. Is that the only reason I gamble? No. There is a certain thrill to gambling. I don't try to hustle or scam. I just want to play. I agree that if a gambling match was shown on TV pool would change. People like seeing the emotions people are going through. Yes, it happens in tournaments but it is more when playing for a large sum of money.

I do wish the tournaments had more money involved. When I started playing professionally I knew what I was getting into. I love the game that is why I do it. Things are looking up. There does need to be one governing body. The WPBA is trying. You have to give them credit for that.

As for taking your kids to watch pool tournaments the way you do golf tournaments, the DCC is kind of an exception. Every gambler in the game of pool attends this event. It is every pool hall in the world magnified 100 times. There are tournaments you can take your children to and not be afraid of whatever they may be exposed to. The UPA tournaments and WPBA tournaments don't allow action or anything "disrespectful" to the game. Everyone that steps foot in a pool room is exposed to smoking, swearing, gambling. But don't say there are not tournament options to take your children to.

I also agree that the "kids" playing today need to have some direction. Not every young person that plays acts poorly it just depends on what they are taught or not taught. Some pool rooms are trying to change things by offering classes to kids. Hopefully some of those kids will stick with the game and help change the image.

These are just my thoughts.
Sarah
 
I really don't think that pool will ever have the TV exposure that golf has. The skills that are necessary for pool can't be fully be appreciated by the average viwer. With golf they can more easily relate to the distances involved and don't have to understand the hooks and slices that are done on purpose or the mechanics that are involved. They, the golfers, have a common starting point and ending point. Simple. Never mind the infinite number of possibilities in pool with colliding spheres and multiple pokets! If you go to any golf course or country club and check out the players and then go to your local pool hall and check out their clientele which would you want to target? I know from my own experience that there are great people from all walks of life in many of the pool rooms that I frequent, though I have only been exposed to the sport for 10yrs, and that their love of the sport binds them all together. To a degree. Both pool and golf have their hustlers and dead beats. But how many big deals are closed in a pool room in a year compared to golf courses in a day? The woofin & barkin on a golf course are much more subtle than in a pool hall but it happens.
Many, if not most, room owners do very little to bring in the young into the sport. How many encourage High School students to compete by starting leagues, offering free lessons and creating the right atmosphere? Pool is pool and I don't think it is going to change. But like most of you,even though I do care, I really don't care that much about whether pool will really catch up with golf and yes I will be playing pool tomorrow and each day that I can and hoping for good rolls because I sure as hell need them!
 
Gerald,

You are right, most pool rooms do nothing for the younger crowd. But just so you know, it isn't always the pool room owners fault. When I was 13 and a freshman in high school, I put together a proposal and took it to the school board trying to get the school to put pool into the physical education curriculum. My father owned the pool room it would be held at and he ensured there would be no smoking, gambling or swearing while the class was being taught. The school board wouldn't go for it. Right now I am trying to do the same thing in one of the suburbs of Chicago. I am hoping that in the past 8 years something has changed.

Like I said before, the public image of pool has changed. What went on at the DCC is not known to the general public. The tournaments shown on ESPN are pretty much all that the general public know of. Movies like The Hustler and The Color of Money also have not given a great outlook. Obviously though that is what makes them so interesting.

Sarah
 
I hear that in countries like Philippines and Taiwan pool is really really popular. Players being recognized on the street, etc.

So, it's not true that it can't work.

Over here in Europe, you get very little pool on tv, if any. However, Eurosport started showing snooker again lately. I have some non pool playing friends who usually play casual 8ball with some silly bar rules. I was surprised when one of them started asking questions about my "billiard playing". Where I come from, billiard is everything with a stick and balls.

The conversation went something like this...

he: "Hey, do you play billiard?"
me: "Yeah, I do"
he: "I play sometimes too, but I love to watch billiard...those guys are so precise..."
me: "You mean you like to watch snooker on Eurosport?"
he: "Yes, Stephen Hendry is my favourite player"
me: "You can't go wrong by supporting him..."
he: "Can you play like him?"
me: "Absolutely not...besides i play pool, not snooker..."
he: "What do you mean by pool?"
me: "American pool - american type of billiard, you know stripes and solids...what we all play around here...it's just that I play by international rules unlike you, and on bigger tables..."
he: "what are international rules?"

After his last question, the conversation really started going. I explained to him 9ball, 8ball, 14.1...differences between english and american type of billiard...I even mentioned carom billiard games...

So you see, just show it on tv and it will work. 9ball is a faster paced game than anything. People will appreciate it. Many have never seen 9ball on tv.
 
There is no way to get rid of the gambling, maybe they should just embrace it. At Derby City Alex Pagulayan played John Schmidt straight pool to 300 for $4,000. Started at midnight (after 13 hours of tournament pool), ended at 5 A.M. Final score Pagulayan 300, Schmidt 298 (both players were completely wired by the end). The greatest sporting event I've ever seen. If you put something like that on TV with a decent announcer, it would be compelling. Sorry Mitch Lawrence, but who wouldn't rather listen to stories from Grady or Danny or Billy??
 
Thanks to all of those who have taken the time to post on this subject.

Special thanks to 'CeeBee' and 'thebigdog' for describing somewhat what I was trying to say earlier.

Sarah, you should be commended for your love of the sport, and to those on this site. You are definitely very into pool as a sport and I (we) appreciate you and your input in so many ways. Get good rolls and good luck in all of your efforts.

It is very unfortunate that the way the public sees pool is sometimes based on the way the media shows it (i.e. 'The Hustler', 'The Color of Money', etc...). However, that is a way of life for those writing the stories and making the movies. They are sometimes very entertaining and sometimes not so entertaining. I am not sure how you would sell a story that involved pool but did not highlight at least some of the darker sides. I am not saying that anyone is suggesting this approach but I think it would be an interesting attempt.

All above are correct in their observations which are based on the various facets of pool. Some pool halls are dark and dingy, while others host a very family-oriented environment. I, at times, appreciate both of these extremes along with the countless variations.

It really is a shame that many touring professional pool players can not afford to not gamble. However, I feel asking that a really well to do beer, chip, cookie, drug, tobacco, etc... company give a lot of money to the sport will only help for a while. We need to find ways to bring new (young and old) folks into the sport and provide them with tools to win. When this happens, hopefully some of the current top players will be ready for a career change. Some of them may go on to corporate involvement. Those involved in the corporate aspects (may not even be pool related), could go on to support the sport which provided them with the opportunity. Goal: This cycle continues. Pie-in-the-sky, maybe, but until pool players start supporting pool players, the sport will always be at the mercy of folks who may not care. Unfortunately, this may be detrimental to some of the existing mindsets in the sport. However, I think organizations like the WPBA (thanks Sarah) are trying to get this type of cycle going as well as a whole lot of other ideas. Bad news is that others may not feel that inviting these 'newbies' to the party or other 'out-of-the-box' ideas is a such good thing. Roadblock??? -- Hopefully only for a while.

Just some thoughts, Jerry
 
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