The Diamond System

[Side Pocket Kid]

I know some Hustlers at the main street pool rooms that know the Diamond System like the back of their hands.
Can kick out of any safety and can pretty much pocket most of the bank/kick shots that come up.
If anyone can throw in a crash course on the most important factors.

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

Crash Course? Many of the Pro’s in the Pool instruction Tapes I love watching say The Diamond System is a Guide Line. NO PERFECT

Think many factors make for Variables, like Ball Speed/Stroke Speed, English, Stroke, Consistence of Stroke, etc., etc., etc.

Practice learning the The Diamond System, but remember nothing is 100% perfect because of the Variables.

Three Cushion Players use the Diamond System, got any of them where you Play. Get to know these guy, as they can give you pointers....

 

[Cane]

I know some Hustlers at the main street pool rooms that know the Diamond System like the back of their hands.
Can kick out of any safety and can pretty much pocket most of the bank/kick shots that come up.
If anyone can throw in a crash course on the most important factors.

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

Bruce is right in that there are a LOT of variables on every table that can effect the "perfect" diamond system. But... you can figure out with one or two shots on the table before you play whether the table is going long or short or whatever.

Daimond systems can be complicated or can be simple. I always tried to count diamonds, add, subtract, etc., but that has changed. I just look at line ups... there are particular diamond to diamond line ups for One, Two, Three, four and Five rail kicks. They WILL change slightly from table to table, or even if the temperature or humidity changes in the pool room while your playing. You must, as Clint Eastwood said in Heartbreak Ridge "Adapt and overcome".

No way there is space on here to explain all the lineups and variables, and adjustments that must be made when your "X" number of diamonds down table, or close to a cushion or a multitude of other variables. Just find someone to show you the basic system and work from there.

BTW, when I get on a table, usually the first thing I do is set up the cue ball on the alignment for a 5 rail kick to the corner, fire it and see if the table is long, short or dead on. Once you learn the systems, you'll learn to adjust from that shot.

Maybe someone has a good link they can post for diamond systems... I don't know of one, but I'm sure there's one out there somewhere.

Later,
Bob

 

[woody_968]

Doing a quick search on these boards will bring up a series of posts by Deadaim the he called Kicking Academy.

HERE are the results from the search, should give you plenty of good reading.

I would suggest printing out the info so you can take it to a table and work with it. As Cane and others have mentioned, you will need to learn how to make adjustments from table to table and day to day.

Woody

 

[Side Pocket Kid]

Doing a quick search on these boards will bring up a series of posts by Deadaim the he called Kicking Academy.

HERE are the results from the search, should give you plenty of good reading.

I would suggest printing out the info so you can take it to a table and work with it. As Cane and others have mentioned, you will need to learn how to make adjustments from table to table and day to day.

Woody

Good idea, I think I will.
Looks like it will take me forever to get the skill.

 

[kyle]

step #1 find the object ball # (in the diagram they are the black #s) the 1 ball is at 20 and about a diamond from the third rail (subtract 10 for the distance from rail 1 diamond =10) your OB# is 10.
step #2 hold your cue over the cue ball and point at the first rail (top rail in diagram)until you find a # on the first rail that when added to the OB# (10) equal the cue ball number (red #s) you may have to project the end of the cue as in diagram cue ball # is 40.
formula; OB#(10)+ first rail number(30)= cue ball number. (40)
*use running gear (a little left spin in picture) table conditions will vary of course.
* 2 rail kick is; cue ball#- OB#= first rail# (except you add the distance from third rail to get OB# when it's off the cushion.

 

[Bob Jewett]

...
If anyone can throw in a crash course on the most important factors. ...

It's possible to learn systems from a printed page -- the pages I first puzzled over many years ago were in Willie Hoppe's "Billiards As It Should Be Played" -- but it is very, very hard. Find an instructor who is willing to discuss the following absolutely standard systems with you:

Corner-five (sometimes called THE Diamond System, but there are many)

Perfect mirror (angle in = angle out, several ways to find it)

2-cushion perfect mirror (often shown as a parallel to a bisector)

plus-two

Opposite three

shortening limit for cross-side banks (a favorite of Massey's)

It should take about three hours to go over these. Don't do it all at once.

 

[Side Pocket Kid]

It's possible to learn systems from a printed page -- the pages I first puzzled over many years ago were in Willie Hoppe's "Billiards As It Should Be Played" -- but it is very, very hard. Find an instructor who is willing to discuss the following absolutely standard systems with you:

Corner-five (sometimes called THE Diamond System, but there are many)

Perfect mirror (angle in = angle out, several ways to find it)

2-cushion perfect mirror (often shown as a parallel to a bisector)

plus-two

Opposite three

shortening limit for cross-side banks (a favorite of Massey's)

It should take about three hours to go over these. Don't do it all at once.

Thats the thing. I already know how to bank (up to a triple bank) and do one rail kicks without diamonds. I want to learn how to do the 2-5 rail kicks, and I was thinking i'd find the answer through those pesky little pearls.

 

[BRKNRUN]

I know some Hustlers at the main street pool rooms that know the Diamond System like the back of their hands.
Can kick out of any safety and can pretty much pocket most of the bank/kick shots that come up.
If anyone can throw in a crash course on the most important factors.

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

Glad you added the rolled eyes...You must understand what your getting into.

I would suggest buying one of those hustlers lunch...and then dropping a few questions in.

This diagram is a "test roll" that can be used to check if a table is three rails "long" or "short" (if it hits the end rail the table is banking long, side rail is banking short, and goes in the pocket, perfect table) What the good players will do is hit the shot a few times to see just how much running english they need to apply to make the ball in the corner. Once they have that shot they have the "baseline" for all three rail kicks.

START(
%Pr1Z2%WP2B5%Xq6Y8%YB6N7%ZP7C4%[T6]1%\C2N4%]r2D8%^S4[3

)END


There is a (-1 -1/2) system based off of this digram that can be used for just about every three rail kick (that you are ready for)... I can pretty much guarantee one of the "hustlers" can show you in about 5 minutes how it works and it takes NO brainpower.

It's already been posted to get the DeadAim posts on Kicking...I printed them all out in case they disappear someday.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Thats the thing. I already know how to bank (up to a triple bank) and do one rail kicks without diamonds. I want to learn how to do the 2-5 rail kicks, and I was thinking i'd find the answer through those pesky little pearls.

I'm not sure I understand your point. The diamonds can be used for some systems. It takes time to learn the systems. It helps to have either a very good text or a good instructor to learn the systems. If you want to do it by book, there are several text references in the RSB FAQ and there are several videos out.

 

[Side Pocket Kid]

I'm not sure I understand your point. The diamonds can be used for some systems. It takes time to learn the systems. It helps to have either a very good text or a good instructor to learn the systems. If you want to do it by book, there are several text references in the RSB FAQ and there are several videos out.

Yeah. I think im going to buy lunch and pool for one of the hustlers and let him teach me a few things, the thing is you don't see them as often as you used to.... Funny thing is its cheaper going to a hustler than an instructor.

 

[DeadAim]

Concerning my kicking posts

As Bob suggested it REALLY helps if you have someone by yourside to run through these systems. The information I provided in my posts were done quickly and are sketchy at best and were provided as help for those who have NO CLUE as to how to kick; AND I'LL BLAME ALL THIS ON THE JUMP STICK.

The seasoned pros like Rempe, Sigel, Varner, Hall, et al kick by "knowing where the pocket is" and some of them have little use for "systems". I swear by them because they are tried and true systems used by "billiard players".

Most of these (if not all) systems are based on MATHEMATICS are can become difficult to learn and confusing at first and MUST be PRACTICED daily until you know them like the "back of YOUR hand" as you stated.

JR

 

[Jal]

...
If anyone can throw in a crash course on the most important factors....

One variable is the direction around the table. On some tables, kicking it clockwise three rails produces a different result than counter-clockwise -- it will go longer one way and shorter the other way.

Everything is a factor though...cushions, cloth, geometry, spin,... The only way to tell how they're conspiring is to try some test shots.

Jim

 

[drivermaker]

It's possible to learn systems from a printed page -- the pages I first puzzled over many years ago were in Willie Hoppe's "Billiards As It Should Be Played" -- but it is very, very hard. Find an instructor who is willing to discuss the following absolutely standard systems with you:

Isn't it ironic that these words are said regarding a diamond system for banking and kicking, but suddenly get swept under the carpet when it comes to an aiming system that's on paper in 2-D and the aiming system and primary teacher get ripped to shreds from some moronic Post Hole Digger that says it goes against all laws of geometry and physics??!! How does it apply to one and not the other?

Secondly why does nobody really go off the deep end when the word "SYSTEM" is applied to Banking, Diamond, Kicking, or anything else.
If an individual KNOWS these systems and also knows how to apply them, they're looked upon with respect and admired for their knowledge.

However, if you're using an "Aiming System" a certain group of hack idiots think that you're some sort of physical and emotional cripple that is using a crutch for a facet of the game that comes automatically. LMAO...what a joke!!

 

[bud green]

Robert Byrne has a good section on the diamond sysytem in his Standard Book of Pool and Billiards. Every library I've been to seems to have this book or you can buy it used for less than $10.

He covers the basic diamond system and how to make adjustments to it. This is a great starter for learning the system.

Fanatics can buy Walt Harris Billiard Atlas I-IV or Ceulemens Mr.100 (out-of-print but being republished) if they want more detailed info.

 

[12squared]

Systems on Pool Tables

This diagram is a "test roll" that can be used to check if a table is three rails "long" or "short" (if it hits the end rail the table is banking long, side rail is banking short, and goes in the pocket, perfect table) What the good players will do is hit the shot a few times to see just how much running english they need to apply to make the ball in the corner. Once they have that shot they have the "baseline" for all three rail kicks.

START(
%Pr1Z2%WP2B5%Xq6Y8%YB6N7%ZP7C4%[T6]1%\C2N4%]r2D8%^S4[3

)END

This is a perfect example of why you need to understand how to test the table you're playing on before using the diamond system. The diamond system on a billiard table says "diamond 2" on the third rail takes you to the corner from where the beginning cue ball is calculated in this example (5). You would subtract 2, which is where you want to hit on the 3rd rail, from 5, which is the starting point of the cue ball. So the diamond system suggests you hit 3 on the first rail with "running english". This example represents a typical "pool" table track for the corner, which typically plays shorter than a billiard table. The math is the same but your return in this example is "3" to the corner. So once you learn the diamond system you must test each table for the proper "returns" so you know where to start your calculations. This is the most important part of the systems: You must know the "Returns" or "Tracks" before you can be successful.

Grady talks about an easy way to figure these shots without all the math, you just test the table so you know where to hit from the corner to get to the opposite corner and adjust your first rail hit as your cue ball moves around the table. This can be found in his video "The finer points of Banking & Safety Play".

Hope this helps. Get reading and ask questions!

Dave

 

[chefjeff]

(snip)
Secondly why does nobody really go off the deep end when the word "SYSTEM" is applied to Banking, Diamond, Kicking, or anything else.
(snip)QUOTE]

Der...because usually the only one to go off the deep end is you.

Splash!

Jeff Livingston

 

[drivermaker]

(snip)
Secondly why does nobody really go off the deep end when the word "SYSTEM" is applied to Banking, Diamond, Kicking, or anything else.
(snip)QUOTE]

Der...because usually the only one to go off the deep end is you.

Splash!

Jeff Livingston

Jeff Livingston...still having time warp lag from his weekend jaunt to Alpa Centauri. Just rest a little Jeffy...you'll be back to your own dumbass self in no time flat.

 

[chefjeff]

Jeff Livingston...still having time warp lag from his weekend jaunt to Alpa Centauri. Just rest a little Jeffy...you'll be back to your own dumbass self in no time flat.

Splash! Just swim around in there until Pam Anderson comes to rescue you.

Jeff Livingston

 

[drivermaker]

Splash! Just swim around in there until Pam Anderson comes to rescue you.

Jeff Livingston

No problem...I think I have the situation well in hand...I'm watching her video with Tommy Lee right now.....(aaaaaaahhhhhh.....uuuuuuhhhhhhhhh......rescued at last, phew. Anybody have a cigarette)