The eyes have it

[ugotda8]

I have an interesting question regarding focus and keeping your stroke staight.

I am considered a much better player by my peers that I see myself being. But, for the sake of argument...I am probably a low B player most of the time with the ability to play a very strong A game some of the time. On a good day, I have been known to beat what would be considered great players in races to 9 and 7. On a normal day, well suffice it to say I am pretty benign with these same players in a long race.

Something I have recently been struggling with is keeping my stroke nice and straight as well as smooth. Don't know exactly when or how it all creeped in, but I have just endured about the worst 3 to 4 weeks in my pool playing days EVER.

About 4 days ago I tried something different that I wanted to both share, and also see if others do the same thing with their eyes. Considering now, that for 4 days I have not missed a shot...I wonder if I am on to something?

This 4 days totals about 16 hours of playing for me without missing a pocket or missing shape. I have never done anything like this before, ever. I have had strings where I would play all day without a miss. But, nothing like this.

And, for clarification. All but 3 of the 16 hours has been practice time, but when using the measuring stick, I am comparing past practice time with current and there is a significant consitency improvement as well as the consitent feel of EASY.

I changed nothing with my pre shot routine and I changed nothing with my aiming technique. But, when I am down on the shot and focusing just prior to the shot, I have started allowing my eyes to focus just past the object ball by about 4 to 6 inches and in line with the shot. In other words, I think I am focused more on the line as opposed to point of contact just prior to pulling the trigger. Interstingly enough, I can still see point of contact but my eyes are looking past and through instead of at (if this makes any sense) and all of the sudden, I have found what some might call the "Quite Eye".

The visual this is giving me is the top edges of the object ball and some of the cue ball and a periferal of the entire alignment.

It would seem this has stopped me from dropping my shoulder, casting the cue off the line and feeling like I am punching at the shot instead of stroking it. I am now easily keeping the cue on line on shots, where as I was having a tendency to cast or guide the cue and coming out of the line of the shot.

Has anyone else ever tried anything this? Have I found something that just works for me? Or, is this something that I just stumbled upon that others have been doing already?

I know confidence breeds confidence which breeds better play. But, this is something totally different to me.

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

 

[SPINDOKTOR]

That is interesting, I'll try it this evening.. Thanks for sharing!


SPINDOKTOR

 

[renard]

I have an interesting question regarding focus and keeping your stroke staight.

I am considered a much better player by my peers that I see myself being. But, for the sake of argument...I am probably a low B player most of the time with the ability to play a very strong A game some of the time. On a good day, I have been known to beat what would be considered great players in races to 9 and 7. On a normal day, well suffice it to say I am pretty benign with these same players in a long race.

Something I have recently been struggling with is keeping my stroke nice and straight as well as smooth. Don't know exactly when or how it all creeped in, but I have just endured about the worst 3 to 4 weeks in my pool playing days EVER.

About 4 days ago I tried something different that I wanted to both share, and also see if others do the same thing with their eyes. Considering now, that for 4 days I have not missed a shot...I wonder if I am on to something?

This 4 days totals about 16 hours of playing for me without missing a pocket or missing shape. I have never done anything like this before, ever. I have had strings where I would play all day without a miss. But, nothing like this.

And, for clarification. All but 3 of the 16 hours has been practice time, but when using the measuring stick, I am comparing past practice time with current and there is a significant consitency improvement as well as the consitent feel of EASY.

I changed nothing with my pre shot routine and I changed nothing with my aiming technique. But, when I am down on the shot and focusing just prior to the shot, I have started allowing my eyes to focus just past the object ball by about 4 to 6 inches and in line with the shot. In other words, I think I am focused more on the line as opposed to point of contact just prior to pulling the trigger. Interstingly enough, I can still see point of contact but my eyes are looking past and through instead of at (if this makes any sense) and all of the sudden, I have found what some might call the "Quite Eye".

The visual this is giving me is the top edges of the object ball and some of the cue ball and a periferal of the entire alignment.

It would seem this has stopped me from dropping my shoulder, casting the cue off the line and feeling like I am punching at the shot instead of stroking it. I am now easily keeping the cue on line on shots, where as I was having a tendency to cast or guide the cue and coming out of the line of the shot.

Has anyone else ever tried anything this? Have I found something that just works for me? Or, is this something that I just stumbled upon that others have been doing already?

I know confidence breeds confidence which breeds better play. But, this is something totally different to me.

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

I do the same thing but not on a regular basis. The way I would describe it would be as I'm down on the shot my eyes focus back and forth from the cue ball to the object ball. The second to last look at the object ball I see the contact point real good and probably could pull the trigger but don't. The last look at the object ball I am in the middle of my backswing and the image of the object balls intended line appears. It sorta seals it in as a no doubter. My pre-shot routine doesn't call for a set number of strokes, just hit it when your ready by the way.

Mentally I'm not sure why the imagery doesn't come up every time for me. And I'm not sure if its needed or if it would increase my precision in potting balls. It's just something I realize that sometimes is there and is not a bad thing in the whole scheme of the shot.

Now imagery is a big part of forming a plan. Your mind basically predicts the outcome before it happens.

First your conscious decides what plan is the smartest play, once it does then the conscious mind should be finished with its role in the shot entirely. Feedback from the mind (your body) lets you know if you possess the set of skills to bring that plan to fruition. Words like trust and confidence spring up here because if there is a lack in either the conscious mind enters in again.

If the conscious mind doesn't reenter the subconscious takes over. At this point traces of that image the conscious created still remain in place. Sometimes they fade to where we are not sure if they are still there. Other times the roadmap has big luminous lines screaming childs play to make the shot. Either way this imagery is like a mini movie in your head.

The sharper and more precise your imagery of the shot is, the better chance you have of following your pre-made movie to a "T." By adding that extra imagery it stands to reason that you could be very well onto something here. Yet with all this happening we cannot change the rhythm in our game by waiting longer for a fuller image to appear. It creates change that the mind can sometimes misinterpret as a problem... again bringing back the conscious mind to the equation.

Thats why George Fels little tidbit in his book about sound makes so much sense. If your making a mini movie of the shot why not add sound? Then when you execute the shot your listening for the sound as well as the imagery you planned for. Think about it, when we have images we are comfortable. When we don't it's like poke-n-hope.

I like your topic, it really brings possibilities to mind!

 

[sponge bob]

I definitely need to try that! BTW, how many inches is your chin off the cue?

Thanks, Asgar

 

[jay helfert]

I have an interesting question regarding focus and keeping your stroke staight.

I am considered a much better player by my peers that I see myself being. But, for the sake of argument...I am probably a low B player most of the time with the ability to play a very strong A game some of the time. On a good day, I have been known to beat what would be considered great players in races to 9 and 7. On a normal day, well suffice it to say I am pretty benign with these same players in a long race.

Something I have recently been struggling with is keeping my stroke nice and straight as well as smooth. Don't know exactly when or how it all creeped in, but I have just endured about the worst 3 to 4 weeks in my pool playing days EVER.

About 4 days ago I tried something different that I wanted to both share, and also see if others do the same thing with their eyes. Considering now, that for 4 days I have not missed a shot...I wonder if I am on to something?

This 4 days totals about 16 hours of playing for me without missing a pocket or missing shape. I have never done anything like this before, ever. I have had strings where I would play all day without a miss. But, nothing like this.

And, for clarification. All but 3 of the 16 hours has been practice time, but when using the measuring stick, I am comparing past practice time with current and there is a significant consitency improvement as well as the consitent feel of EASY.

I changed nothing with my pre shot routine and I changed nothing with my aiming technique. But, when I am down on the shot and focusing just prior to the shot, I have started allowing my eyes to focus just past the object ball by about 4 to 6 inches and in line with the shot. In other words, I think I am focused more on the line as opposed to point of contact just prior to pulling the trigger. Interstingly enough, I can still see point of contact but my eyes are looking past and through instead of at (if this makes any sense) and all of the sudden, I have found what some might call the "Quite Eye".

The visual this is giving me is the top edges of the object ball and some of the cue ball and a periferal of the entire alignment.

It would seem this has stopped me from dropping my shoulder, casting the cue off the line and feeling like I am punching at the shot instead of stroking it. I am now easily keeping the cue on line on shots, where as I was having a tendency to cast or guide the cue and coming out of the line of the shot.

Has anyone else ever tried anything this? Have I found something that just works for me? Or, is this something that I just stumbled upon that others have been doing already?

I know confidence breeds confidence which breeds better play. But, this is something totally different to me.

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

This could work for you. One small suggestion. When you are aiming at the object ball, plan to hit THROUGH the point of contact, as opposed to just hitting into it. I want my cue ball to go through the contact point, not stop there. It may help with your follow through.

 

[wayne]

This could work for you. One small suggestion. When you are aiming at the object ball, plan to hit THROUGH the point of contact, as opposed to just hitting into it. I want my cue ball to go through the contact point, not stop there. It may help with your follow through.

Uhhh, you are giving advice to someone who played 16 hours without missing a pocket and without missing shape. That translates to somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 shots without missing a pocket or shape (if he plays normal speed). This person doesn't need advice, he needs to be challenging Efren. He has gone from a B player to the best player in the world. I don't believe anyone in the world would accept a bet where they had to go 16 hours without missing position or shape (shooting a minimum of 200 shots per hour).

If he was practicing straight pool he just set a world record that will never be broken.

This is an earlier post by the same poster:

"But I use these pills every day and they work great. As an experiment, I decided to take 3 of these pills at one time last week, just to see what would happen.

The first few minutes were pretty normal. BUT, then before I know it...I am sitting there drinking my beer, Smoking my cig, flirting with my gal and talking with my opponent while my cue ran a 30 pack."

So the guy has run thousands of balls without missing a shot or shape and has run a 30 pack.

 

[ugotda8]

Lmfao!!!

Uhhh, you are giving advice to someone who played 16 hours without missing a pocket and without missing shape. That translates to somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 shots without missing a pocket or shape (if he plays normal speed). This person doesn't need advice, he needs to be challenging Efren. He has gone from a B player to the best player in the world. I don't believe anyone in the world would accept a bet where they had to go 16 hours without missing position or shape (shooting a minimum of 200 shots per hour).

If he was practicing straight pool he just set a world record that will never be broken.

This is an earlier post by the same poster:

"But I use these pills every day and they work great. As an experiment, I decided to take 3 of these pills at one time last week, just to see what would happen.

The first few minutes were pretty normal. BUT, then before I know it...I am sitting there drinking my beer, Smoking my cig, flirting with my gal and talking with my opponent while my cue ran a 30 pack."

So the guy has run thousands of balls without missing a shot or shape and has run a 30 pack.

LMAO!!! I forgot about them damn pills...A guy tries to have a little fun and there goes his credibility!!!! Perfect example of the "Cork Soaking" law.

You can work all your life to solve world hunger and bring peace to the entire planet and folks will call you a humanitarian. But, you "Soak one Cork" while doing all of this hard work and folks will call you a "Cork Soaker" for the rest of your life. LMAO!!!

I should clarify, that most of this practice time involves just throwing the balls out on the table and playing them out in an 8 ball format. Clear one set, dump the 8 and run the remaining table. No trouble, no blocked pockets etc. Just making balls and keeping the cue ball under control and in a position that will either give me the exact shot I was looking for or give me multiple options for my next shot.

Don't get me wrong, while this story is absolutely positively true...I have no disillusions of the changes that will come as a result of the Breaks, the lay of the table and playing against someone else, etc. Definitely not ready to challenge Efrin without my pills! LMAO

I am talking about practice in it's simplest form here. The exciting part for me is that I am measuring against the exact same practice structure that I had been using prior to this change.

I guess I play somewhat slower than normal speed. It takes me about 5 minutes to completely clear the table. That really is only about 2900 shots total over 16 hours of play over 4 days. When you incorporate smoking time, screwing around time etc...it really drives this number down a good bit.

I am much more interested in whether or not this is something others have already been doing or if perhaps this is just a fluke that could possibly fade away like some of the other "Fixes" I have found over the years.

More importantly, since this has worked so well...I wanted to share it with others so that they could experiment and perhaps get positive results as well.

I didn't mean to come across as a braggart here, but in hind sight I see where it could be taken that way. I just wanted to communicate the enormous difference it has made for me and couldn't think of any other way to get it out there.

Am I excited? You bet your A$$ I am.

If it's usefull to someone else...WONDERFUL

If it aint...that's wonderful too.

But I hope that it is.

 

[ugotda8]

Thanks

This could work for you. One small suggestion. When you are aiming at the object ball, plan to hit THROUGH the point of contact, as opposed to just hitting into it. I want my cue ball to go through the contact point, not stop there. It may help with your follow through.

Thanks Jay. I will take all the advice I can get. Once we close our mind and quit listening to others. The learning process comes to a halt and that's not a good thing.

I am thinking that perhaps that your description is exactly what is now taking place. I really think I was hitting at the spot instead of through it. Once this started happening, all the angles fell into place and I was not having to work the ball uneccesarily to get it where I needed it to go.

I appreciate the feedback!

 

[ugotda8]

I definitely need to try that! BTW, how many inches is your chin off the cue?

Thanks, Asgar

I set up pretty low on the cue, but not right down on it like some guys do.

1 to 2 inches maybe?

 

[ugotda8]

That is interesting, I'll try it this evening.. Thanks for sharing!


SPINDOKTOR

Please let me know how it goes...

 

[SPINDOKTOR]

Went pretty good actualy, and I have to say a 9 foot never looked so small....this gives me like tunnel vision? kinda wierd at first, but then it seemed the shots were closer..and yes, it worked pretty well for me.. A noticeable differance in the way I percieve distance mostly..

Good stuff..

SPINDOKTOR

Please let me know how it goes...

 

[CueAndMe]

Maybe when you're looking beyond the object ball you sense the chunk you're taking out of it with the cue ball more clearly.
I look forward to trying it.
Jeff

 

[Rod]

I have an interesting question regarding focus and keeping your stroke staight.

I am considered a much better player by my peers that I see myself being. But, for the sake of argument...I am probably a low B player most of the time with the ability to play a very strong A game some of the time. On a good day, I have been known to beat what would be considered great players in races to 9 and 7. On a normal day, well suffice it to say I am pretty benign with these same players in a long race.

Something I have recently been struggling with is keeping my stroke nice and straight as well as smooth. Don't know exactly when or how it all creeped in, but I have just endured about the worst 3 to 4 weeks in my pool playing days EVER.

About 4 days ago I tried something different that I wanted to both share, and also see if others do the same thing with their eyes. Considering now, that for 4 days I have not missed a shot...I wonder if I am on to something?

This 4 days totals about 16 hours of playing for me without missing a pocket or missing shape. I have never done anything like this before, ever. I have had strings where I would play all day without a miss. But, nothing like this.

And, for clarification. All but 3 of the 16 hours has been practice time, but when using the measuring stick, I am comparing past practice time with current and there is a significant consitency improvement as well as the consitent feel of EASY.

I changed nothing with my pre shot routine and I changed nothing with my aiming technique. But, when I am down on the shot and focusing just prior to the shot, I have started allowing my eyes to focus just past the object ball by about 4 to 6 inches and in line with the shot. In other words, I think I am focused more on the line as opposed to point of contact just prior to pulling the trigger. Interstingly enough, I can still see point of contact but my eyes are looking past and through instead of at (if this makes any sense) and all of the sudden, I have found what some might call the "Quite Eye".

The visual this is giving me is the top edges of the object ball and some of the cue ball and a periferal of the entire alignment.

It would seem this has stopped me from dropping my shoulder, casting the cue off the line and feeling like I am punching at the shot instead of stroking it. I am now easily keeping the cue on line on shots, where as I was having a tendency to cast or guide the cue and coming out of the line of the shot.

Has anyone else ever tried anything this? Have I found something that just works for me? Or, is this something that I just stumbled upon that others have been doing already?

I know confidence breeds confidence which breeds better play. But, this is something totally different to me.

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

I think we're pretty close. I have always looked through the angle for as long as I can remember. As for how far, I really can't say exactly. Let me clarify, I haven't played for over two months so I can't say exactly.

It seems a much easier approach to me. That is, I always hear people referring to contact points. They see a contact point. It's always befuddled me how the hell do they see a contact point? Next, when they see one, how the hell do they keep their eyes on it?

Well for me there has never been a contact point. All I see is, I think like your saying, you look through the o/b and it gives me the angle. Thats all I really need to pocket a ball. Well sometimes I do use a reference for my angle as in parallel to a rail etc but I think what we see is close.

About all the other stuff you mentioned, I can't say as it has ever been a problem so I can't comment on that. Other than if you think you were steering than I suppose it could have an effect on other aspects as well.

Another way I shoot is by shooting the cue ball. Profound huh? That is I aim the c/b but I don't use the shaft as an aiming device. Since many shots are shot with english using the shaft seems pretty pointless to me. About the only time I even consider getting the shaft involved is on a long dead straight in shot.

As for me I've been an A+ player for most of my life. Now in my older years I suppose I'm at a B something because at present I just don't have the time to play. That and I'm getting my eye sight restored. One eye done one to go. Next time I play I'll try to remember this post and I'll pay attention to exactly how I look through the ball to give me the angle.

Rod

 

[ugotda8]

Amazing

Went pretty good actualy, and I have to say a 9 foot never looked so small....this gives me like tunnel vision? kinda wierd at first, but then it seemed the shots were closer..and yes, it worked pretty well for me.. A noticeable differance in the way I percieve distance mostly..

Good stuff..

SPINDOKTOR

You know...I started feeling the same way almost immediately....9' table seems much smaller.

For prosperity, I practiced for a couple of hours last night and gave this the full run through playing 10 ball.

I am not ashamed to admit that I missed my share of position, but not one time did I fail to pocket the object ball when I had a shot at it. So, Kevin still aint no pro. But, he appears to be much improved where consitency is concerned.


This really does seem to be something that is going to work for me over a long period of time.

Stroke feels strong, smooth and fluid. And the game over all still seems easier than it was. I truly hope others find this useful information.

Keep at it! The first couple of hours were off an on for me. But, once it caught...it was on and still appears to be!


Looks like I will be saving $300.00 per month on those dang pills now.

 

[ugotda8]

Reinforcement

I think we're pretty close. I have always looked through the angle for as long as I can remember. As for how far, I really can't say exactly. Let me clarify, I haven't played for over two months so I can't say exactly.

It seems a much easier approach to me. That is, I always hear people referring to contact points. They see a contact point. It's always befuddled me how the hell do they see a contact point? Next, when they see one, how the hell do they keep their eyes on it?

Well for me there has never been a contact point. All I see is, I think like your saying, you look through the o/b and it gives me the angle. Thats all I really need to pocket a ball. Well sometimes I do use a reference for my angle as in parallel to a rail etc but I think what we see is close.

About all the other stuff you mentioned, I can't say as it has ever been a problem so I can't comment on that. Other than if you think you were steering than I suppose it could have an effect on other aspects as well.

Another way I shoot is by shooting the cue ball. Profound huh? That is I aim the c/b but I don't use the shaft as an aiming device. Since many shots are shot with english using the shaft seems pretty pointless to me. About the only time I even consider getting the shaft involved is on a long dead straight in shot.

As for me I've been an A+ player for most of my life. Now in my older years I suppose I'm at a B something because at present I just don't have the time to play. That and I'm getting my eye sight restored. One eye done one to go. Next time I play I'll try to remember this post and I'll pay attention to exactly how I look through the ball to give me the angle.

Rod

Rod,

Thanks for the feedback. This is good stuff and your information helps reinforce in my mind that perhaps while this is something I just fell upon, it is a method that some other successful players had already been using.

 

[ugotda8]

I wanna hear from you

Maybe when you're looking beyond the object ball you sense the chunk you're taking out of it with the cue ball more clearly.
I look forward to trying it.
Jeff

Jeff,

Let me know how it goes for you. I look forward to the feedback!

Thanks

Kevin

 

[MinoInADixeCup]

I think I've been doing something similar for the last few weeks now and it seems to have really helped with my pocketing.

I've noticed that when I'm down on my shot, my eyes will kind of trace a line from the center of the pocket through the object ball and give me a new contact point.

Now, if I stand up and get right behind the ball and the pocket, the true contact point is a little off from my imaginary one. The thinner the cut, the bigger the difference in location.

If I aim directly at my imaginary contact point (no correction for the roundness of the balls), the ball falls nearly every time. It works just as well when I can't see the pocket, as long as I can visualize where the pocket is I can see the line and I can send the ball in the right direction.

Before I started aiming like this, I was averaging about 115 to 120 in equal offense, now I'm closer to 135 and can frequently get into the 140's. Even in regular straight pool, my runs are hardly ever ended because I missed a ball, it?s usually because I tried a break out that I shouldn?t have and ended up with nothing to shoot at.

What do you think? Does this sound similar to what you?re doing? I'm heading over to my table to practice right now, I'll give your system a try and see if works for me.

 

[ugotda8]

Similar

I think I've been doing something similar for the last few weeks now and it seems to have really helped with my pocketing.

I've noticed that when I'm down on my shot, my eyes will kind of trace a line from the center of the pocket through the object ball and give me a new contact point.

Now, if I stand up and get right behind the ball and the pocket, the true contact point is a little off from my imaginary one. The thinner the cut, the bigger the difference in location.

If I aim directly at my imaginary contact point (no correction for the roundness of the balls), the ball falls nearly every time. It works just as well when I can't see the pocket, as long as I can visualize where the pocket is I can see the line and I can send the ball in the right direction.

Before I started aiming like this, I was averaging about 115 to 120 in equal offense, now I'm closer to 135 and can frequently get into the 140's. Even in regular straight pool, my runs are hardly ever ended because I missed a ball, it?s usually because I tried a break out that I shouldn?t have and ended up with nothing to shoot at.

What do you think? Does this sound similar to what you?re doing? I'm heading over to my table to practice right now, I'll give your system a try and see if works for me.

Sounds like your results are already pretty good.

The only way I can describe this as follow.

While at address: I am determining speed, angle and contact point on the OB

When getting down on the shot: I am staring intently at the contact point on the OB and allowing my periferal vision to see the Cue Ball.

Once I am in the shooting position: Prior to taking my first practice stroke. I allow my eyes to refocus about 4" beyond the OB. I don't make an intentional attempt to Look beyond. Just let my eyes refocus while keeping them on line with the contact point.

The results for me are I am able to see Contact Point, Angles, Line and top edges of CB and OB just prior to pulling the trigger.

Good luck and let me know what happens

 

[Big C]

Aim vs. mechanics.

There are many different aiming systems, at least seven that I know of. All of them will not help you pocket balls if you can't get the cue moving back and through in a straight line. Pre-shot routine, alignment at address, visualization of the shot, delivery of the cue and finally, analysis in the finish position. This is a start to finish routine with feedback that must be practiced over and over until it becomes unconscious. That more than any aiming system will allow you to be more consistent and consistency is the key to winning.

 

[CueAndMe]

Just to clarify, when you say you're looking past the object ball, it's the cue ball line that you're extending, right? Not the object ball's path to pocket?
Thanks,
Jeff