The future of the art

[Nomoney]

inlays are the money makers for cuemakers. l know the buyers, ask for all of it. but l wish cuemakers would stand up for themselves. and make plain cues. a serious player should want a solid hitting cue. same with white shaft wood. doesn't have to be that way. plenty of good maple is passed by, because of color or mineral lines. just a thought

 

[bandido]

inlays are the money makers for cuemakers. l know the buyers, ask for all of it. but l wish cuemakers would stand up for themselves. and make plain cues. a serious player should want a solid hitting cue. same with white shaft wood. doesn't have to be that way. plenty of good maple is passed by, because of color or mineral lines. just a thought

Different folks, different strokes. "Solid hitting is required" of a cue whether it be production models but most specially the custom variety. So if a cuemaker has reached the proficiency where he can consistently make solid hitting cues then what's left of the consumer to choose from would be intricacy and beauty. It, making intricate cues, is a trick in itself as adding more parts requires more knowledge, patience and natural artistic ability from the cuemaker.

I agree with you regarding the shafts and I guess I'm lucky enough that those who appreciate my cuemaking approach and style agree with my recommendations.

I probably should work harder on my game and win one of those WPC titles and maybe it'll be easier to convince the majority. LOL

 

[classiccues]

I guess I am really in the minority on this topic. I am really not interested in cnc cues regardless of their intricasies of design. I find some of them very pretty but can't get it out of my mind that it is computer generated. I prefer beautiful woods combined for a solid hit and and clean craftsmanship. I realize that many tools, lathes ect are used in the making of cues and have no problems with that. The more hands on work and the creativeness of the cuemaker are much more appealling to me. They have generally paid their dues and use their minds as their computers. JMHO

Gerald,
I don't have a problem with inlays being done by cnc, but since I like the more traditional style cues, just hand sharpen the inlays. My beef is a diamond is 4 sided, not 8. When you put in a cnc diamond with rounded edges, you got 8 sides. There is nothing appealing to me, infact when a "custom" cuemaker does it, I equate it with Schon, or Viking or Joss, and then its not really "finished". Some designs are deserving of cnc, and having round edges, that fine. I just don't like them in most cases.
You know there is an old saying.. garbage in, garbage out. What you will find is when you press the time saving ie; production time decrease, with cuemakers they automatically go to the "learning curve" of cnc, which cracks me up. There is a learning curve with everything. To install a tip properly, there is a learning curve. CNC is what it is, its a tool that almost always increases productivity, sometimes creativity, and with any luck accuracy.

Joe

 

[blud]

cnc

Gerald,
I don't have a problem with inlays being done by cnc, but since I like the more traditional style cues, just hand sharpen the inlays. My beef is a diamond is 4 sided, not 8. When you put in a cnc diamond with rounded edges, you got 8 sides. There is nothing appealing to me, infact when a "custom" cuemaker does it, I equate it with Schon, or Viking or Joss, and then its not really "finished". Some designs are deserving of cnc, and having round edges, that fine. I just don't like them in most cases.
You know there is an old saying.. garbage in, garbage out. What you will find is when you press the time saving ie; production time decrease, with cuemakers they automatically go to the "learning curve" of cnc, which cracks me up. There is a learning curve with everything. To install a tip properly, there is a learning curve. CNC is what it is, its a tool that almost always increases productivity, sometimes creativity, and with any luck accuracy.

Joe

Hi Joe,

CNC does the same kind of work as the older panamills did.
CNC is un-manned for the most part other than designing the inlays.

You say, quote! {sometimes creativity and with any luck accuracy}.

You need to come visit my shop and see what accuracy is all about.

CNC's are more accarte than the human eye, and hands, my friend. They can repeat over and again.

When making female pockets come to a point by hand, one can slip and "NONE", of the pockets, {even with out a slip}, will be the same. It's impossible, sir.

Therefore CNC is more accrate.
I also perfer the VEE points over the CNC made cues.

blud

 

[hadjcues]

I agree with Blud.
CNC offers repeatability and accuracy. It's basically those things that give the machine an advantage over human hands.
As for design goes, still up to the cuemaker how to bring it out.
Just as what was posted earlier, it's just another tool for cuemaking.
What amazes me though are those intricately inlayed cues by hand... one helluva skill needed for that and that I believe is priceless!
What I would like to dwell on CNC is not doing inlays but to come up and try different tapers for the shaft - cumbersome with a taper bar and nerve wracking by manual taper

 

[classiccues]

Hi Joe,

CNC does the same kind of work as the older panamills did.
CNC is un-manned for the most part other than designing the inlays.

You say, quote! {sometimes creativity and with any luck accuracy}.

You need to come visit my shop and see what accuracy is all about.

CNC's are more accarte than the human eye, and hands, my friend. They can repeat over and again.

When making female pockets come to a point by hand, one can slip and "NONE", of the pockets, {even with out a slip}, will be the same. It's impossible, sir.

Therefore CNC is more accrate.
I also perfer the VEE points over the CNC made cues.

blud

Blud,
My line on accuracy was ment as tongue and cheek and meaning with any luck your chosen cuemaker will be "accurate". Being in manufactuing, I understand why CNC was invented in the first place, accuracy and proficency, or time savings as you will.
I agree if you are cutting a female pocket, and you slip, what do you do? IMHO this is where the craftsman gets separated from a cuemaker who just had money to buy cnc. What I am saying is that when inlaying a true diamond, sharp, that you have to go in and "clip" the corner of the female pocket. This is skill, no one can argue this. It separates the men from the boys. Except for ebony, cause we all know how easy it is to hide.

Joe

 

[hadjcues]

I'm just wondering though how cuemakers who just came out in the last five years started building cues. Did they have the CNC machines outright or they started makin' cues with the basic equipment and do inlays by hand or panto? How did their cues look before they had CNC?

 

[blud]

hide

Blud,
My line on accuracy was ment as tongue and cheek and meaning with any luck your chosen cuemaker will be "accurate". Being in manufactuing, I understand why CNC was invented in the first place, accuracy and proficency, or time savings as you will.
I agree if you are cutting a female pocket, and you slip, what do you do? IMHO this is where the craftsman gets separated from a cuemaker who just had money to buy cnc. What I am saying is that when inlaying a true diamond, sharp, that you have to go in and "clip" the corner of the female pocket. This is skill, no one can argue this. It separates the men from the boys. Except for ebony, cause we all know how easy it is to hide.

Joe

Hi Joe,
No problems, sir.

Easy to hide filled in points, is not so true. In my opinion, if your a true craftsman, you would not hide a single thing.. a good craftsman or good cuemaker, can pick up on the "so called" hidden rounded "POINT"....hee hee,,,

The ebony cues I build with pointed inlays, are true female pockets that comes to a point. Years ago, I did like most do today, move up on center line with your tooling and then put ebony dust and glue as a filler. I now just laugh at those who do that.

I can take a maple front, and inlay a sharpe point [ any color of woods] in the flat bottom CNC female pocket. Takes about 30 seconds per pocket. most guys, and big name guys, inlay a clover leaf, diamond, or an arrow head, at the top of the point, with something to hide the rounded inlay. I also laugh at this.

I did it the same way for a few years, way back when. Now it's a differant ball game. There's much talent out there today, so you got to be on your toes, and must do jamb-up work.

I built a cue several years ago [ about 20 or so yrs ago ],that was flat bottom, CNC'ed, that came to a real sharp point, and square at the bottom. I was "SHOWING" it off.

I had a top cue maker from LA, tell me it was a nice VEE pointed cue. I said, no it's not a VEE pointed cue. He got hot as all get out, and said I didn't know what i was talking about. I said funny thing is, I built this cue and do know how it was built. He then said, it's impossible to do that.
O-WELL. at that time i was a simi-new comer cuemaker.

A true cue-craftsman [a good hand], can tell by looking at the veneers and tell if it's a flat bottom or deep-vee, point.

The flat bottom veneer will show less of the colored veneer than the one that sits in at an angle. Just think about it? The veneers [ deep vee's],are at more of an angle [at a 45degree from straight way from the cue], with deep vee's. Almost as if they were laying on there sides..
rock on Joe,,,,,

blud

 

[blud]

saw/lathe

I agree with Blud.
CNC offers repeatability and accuracy. It's basically those things that give the machine an advantage over human hands.
As for design goes, still up to the cuemaker how to bring it out.
Just as what was posted earlier, it's just another tool for cuemaking.
What amazes me though are those intricately inlayed cues by hand... one helluva skill needed for that and that I believe is priceless!
What I would like to dwell on CNC is not doing inlays but to come up and try different tapers for the shaft - cumbersome with a taper bar and nerve wracking by manual taper

OK, hadjcue, I got financing for my machines.

just call me for details.830-232-5991

no more taper bar set ups and noisy routers. Just smooooooooooth cuts.

Let me know, and I'll send pictures and prices.
blud


blud

 

[Gerald]

Ger, funny you should mention Joe Gold.
It seems to be, a ton of CNC'rs are trying to copy his cues.
I like the good ole v-points and sharp inlays myself.

I totally agree!! Kenny, the owner, at HT has a Southwest that has points that look like they would puncture your hand if you were not careful.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I totally agree!! Kenny, the owner, at HT has a Southwest that has points that look like they would puncture your hand if you were not careful.

LOL
I can't stand those rounded points either.
No wonder they have bad resale price.