The Grip

[Sloppy Pockets]

For some people unorthodox works well. Check out any videos you can find of Joe Swail's grip and stroke, Alex Higgins' in action, Mark Selby's head movement on the shot, Ray Reardon's grip, or even Ronnie O'Sullivan who grips with the middle and ring fingers.

In that list you have multiple world champions and players who have had success at the top of the game. To say that there is only one way to grip a cue is naive.

I've tried just about every grip out there, from a light-as-a-feather cradle between thumb and forefinger, to the McCready side arm, up to the CJ Wiley "hammer" grip to stab at the ball. All of them have merit to me at times, but I always go back to the same type grip that RO uses for the majority of my shots.

This is nearly identical to the way I hold a fly rod (although the action is obviously totally different), with the pivot point located at the contact points between the side of the thumb and the inside of the middle finger. The forefinger only contacts the cue at the end of the backstroke, and then it contacts the ring finger (and maybe the pinky finger a bit) at the end of the forward stroke. The whole time it is rocking over the middle finger as it's main contact point. The net result is that it feels like I am pulling the cue through most of the forward stroke, and then, as the wrist breaks over, I am pushing it (guiding it?) straight through the end of the stoke and into the follow through. It is a very straight stroke for me, with plenty of either reserve power or delicacy as required.

And light. Very, very light, so light that the cue slips forward just a hair during power strokes. In addition to the obvious advantage a relaxed grip provides to achieve a straight stroke, I feel that relaxation in most sports helps to promote better timing, and timing is where real power comes from, not from brute muscular force.

 

[naji]

You need to stop and ask yourself why the best players un the world have such fantastic positional play. Its because they have the ability to hit the cue ball exactly where they want with the utmost consistency. They have this phenomenal accuracy with a variety of grips, stances, cue actions and bridges. To say there is only one way is false. Perhaps there is only one way for you, but not for everyone else.

I do look forward to hearing your method on the grip. You never know Naji, it could not only help us pool players but it could go global and across all fields. If people knew this way of holding something they could chop carrots quicker, dice unions faster, hit a tennis ball harder, drive a golf ball more accurately, hammer nails dead straight, cast a fishing rod to that one spot where no one can reach where all the prize carp like to hang out. Jeez, the possibilities are endless Naji! So please, get this stuff either written down on a hard back and on the shelves, or make it available as a download ASAP!!

Pidge, why, what is the benefit for me to reveal my grip style. 1st time i mentioned my grip style/name, in my 1st post, you ignored me and did not even gave credit to what i said, you gave the credit to someone else!

 

[Pidge]

I've tried just about every grip out there, from a light-as-a-feather cradle between thumb and forefinger, to the McCready side arm, up to the CJ Wiley "hammer" grip to stab at the ball. All of them have merit to me at times, but I always go back to the same type grip that RO uses for the majority of my shots.

This is nearly identical to the way I hold a fly rod (although the action is obviously totally different), with the pivot point located at the contact points between the side of the thumb and the inside of the middle finger. The forefinger only contacts the cue at the end of the backstroke, and then it contacts the ring finger (and maybe the pinky finger a bit) at the end of the forward stroke. The whole time it is rocking over the middle finger as it's main contact point. The net result is that it feels like I am pulling the cue through most of the forward stroke, and then, as the wrist breaks over, I am pushing it (guiding it?) straight through the end of the stoke and into the follow through. It is a very straight stroke for me, with plenty of either reserve power or delicacy as required.

And light. Very, very light, so light that the cue slips forward just a hair during power strokes. In addition to the obvious advantage a relaxed grip provides to achieve a straight stroke, I feel that relaxation in most sports helps to promote better timing, and timing is where real power comes from, not from brute muscular force.

Ronnie has a very unusual way of gripping the cue. He also constantly moves his fingers when down on a shot. I remember the first time I saw him live, I was just a kid and I was like crap, that's why he's so good, I've got to try this! His finger constantly come off the cue in a "wave" like motion (pinky comes off, then ring finger, then middle then index then pinky back on etc) that's the best I can describe it. I still to this day don't know why he does it. All I can assume is its a way to stop the build up of tension and tightness in the hand so he doesn't increase his grip pressure when cueing.

 

[Pidge]

Pidge, why, what is the benefit for me to reveal my grip style. 1st time i mentioned my grip style/name, in my 1st post, you ignored me and did not even gave credit to what i said, you gave the credit to someone else!

I simply questioned what grip transition timing was, then I assumed The Renfro explained what it was to me, which you later told me was not the case. The term "grip transition timing" still confuses me. I have no idea what it is. I assumed it was the timing of the transition in the grip, ie from the back of the stroke to the front, and timing that in such a way that you get the most benefit from it. Is this anywhere near what you mean by grip transition timing?

 

[naji]

I simply questioned what grip transition timing was, then I assumed The Renfro explained what it was to me, which you later told me was not the case. The term "grip transition timing" still confuses me. I have no idea what it is. I assumed it was the timing of the transition in the grip, ie from the back of the stroke to the front, and timing that in such a way that you get the most benefit from it. Is this anywhere near what you mean by grip transition timing?

Sorry Pidge, it is hard to write about it. If you come to Virginia one day i will show you what i mean! it was talked about by one of top snooker players very briefly in a way hard to understand, it took me two years to know what he meant!

 

[Pidge]

Sorry Pidge, it is hard to write about it. If you come to Virginia one day i will show you what i mean! it was talked about by one of top snooker players very briefly in a way hard to understand, it took me two years to know what he meant!

No worries Naji. That's the thing with these snooker players, they ramble on without really making much sense. I guess knowing how to do something very well and explaining it in an easy to understand way are two different skill sets.

 

[JoeyA]

No worries Naji. That's the thing with these snooker players, they ramble on without really making much sense. I guess knowing how to do something very well and explaining it in an easy to understand way are two different skill sets.

THIS! Is a fact.

Still, I like a player who can play at a high level but who can clearly articulate HOW he/she does what he/she does.

JoeyA

 

[fastone371]

Sorry Scott and Pidge,

Pidge says: "I believe the grip is not as important as some would have you believe"

I disagree, it is extremely important for consistency.

I added critical item "grip transition timing". essential for accuracy.

My opinion would be that the only thing important about the grip would be that it helps you deliver the tip of the cue in the exact same place every time. If the grip were extremely important would we not see all or at least most high caliber pros using the same grip?

 

[nobcitypool]

My opinion would be that the only thing important about the grip would be that it helps you deliver the tip of the cue in the exact same place every time. If the grip were extremely important would we not see all or at least most high caliber pros using the same grip?

Actually, you wouldn't. Many professionals are self taught and achieved their level of proficiency through great natural talent and tens of thousands of hours of play. By no means does it mean one would want to emulate their method or that it is fundamentally the best technique for most quickly developing a higher skill level. One may appreciate Lee Trevino or Jim Furyk's golf swing but I have never seen a golf instructor attempt to teach anyone those swings.

 

[naji]

My opinion would be that the only thing important about the grip would be that it helps you deliver the tip of the cue in the exact same place every time. If the grip were extremely important would we not see all or at least most high caliber pros using the same grip?

Pool and snooker all about position play, you must be a great position player where all your shots are made with ease, and less demand for accuracy, with occasional difficulty. Actually that is what differentiate good players from best for the long run.

Making difficult long shots, off angle shots more consistently, demands high cuing accuracy, and optimum grip method is required, at times high aiming accuracy could suffices if focus power is available

Not all pros have same grip style. Why do you think Alex P and many top pros fail at snooker!
They know how to aim, know that they need straight stroke, know stance, know feet position, they can concentrate and probably used stuff to help! they know all obvious things, what is the hold up!

Could it be they need to be more accurate in their cue delivery stroke!

 

[supergreenman]

I can't believe we're 4 pages in and nobody, not even Dr. Dave has mentioned that you need a different grip for different shots.

People struggling with backspin would be wise to look into this.

If you've ever had problems hitting the right tangent using topspin, you need to look into this.

If you want your game to improve by a few balls, by all means look into this.

However, it's not all in the grip. Each grip is paired with a different bridge length.

Get the whole picture. Anybody that's watched Freddy the Beards banks that don't go but do videos will know what I'm talking about.

 

[ronscuba]

I try to keep my grip pressure consistent throughout the whole stroke. But, my grip pressure changes depending on the shot. Soft delicate shots, lite pressure. Hard hitting shots, medium pressure.

Don't know if this is a good or bad thing in the long run, but it's been working well for me as an intermediate player.

 

[naji]

I try to keep my grip pressure consistent throughout the whole stroke. But, my grip pressure changes depending on the shot. Soft delicate shots, lite pressure. Hard hitting shots, medium pressure.

Don't know if this is a good or bad thing in the long run, but it's been working well for me as an intermediate player.

Here is a way you can tell, i think! Go to a snooker table, and shoot the black ball (on its spot) with say about CB at 40 degree angle and about 6" from the rail, shoot with different speeds
report results. Thanks.

 

[CJ Wiley]

a high level but who can clearly articulate HOW he/she does what he/she does.

I second that, Joey. :thumbup:

THIS! Is a fact.

Still, I like a player who can play at a high level but who can clearly articulate HOW he/she does what he/she does.

JoeyA

 

[naji]

I second that, Joey. :thumbup:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyA View Post
THIS! Is a fact.

Still, I like a player who can play at a high level but who can clearly articulate HOW he/she does what he/she does.

JoeyA


Last time i checked , pro pool players full time job is pool! if they teach everyone what they know best, they might starve and bankrupt!
JoeyA, did you mean articulate HOW he/she does what he/she does for free, or little $$ with a DVD? i like black and white. Thanks.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Shane is the only one that's "full time job" is pool

You really want "black and white"?

Shane is the only one that's "full time job" is pool as far as I know.

In case one of them tries to sell something they'll probably get crucified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyA View Post
THIS! Is a fact.

Still, I like a player who can play at a high level but who can clearly articulate HOW he/she does what he/she does.

JoeyA


Last time i checked , pro pool players full time job is pool! if they teach everyone what they know best, they might starve and bankrupt!
JoeyA, did you mean articulate HOW he/she does what he/she does for free, or little $$ with a DVD? i like black and white. Thanks.

 

[CJ Wiley]

There are common denominators with all the greatest players.

There are common denominators with all the greatest players.

Music isn't made up of "just a bunch of notes," it's made up of themes and variations on that theme. Pool is much the same way, although everyone looks different doing it, there's still a lot of similarities when looking at the feet up, rather than at "table level".

Actually, you wouldn't. Many professionals are self taught and achieved their level of proficiency through great natural talent and tens of thousands of hours of play. By no means does it mean one would want to emulate their method or that it is fundamentally the best technique for most quickly developing a higher skill level. One may appreciate Lee Trevino or Jim Furyk's golf swing but I have never seen a golf instructor attempt to teach anyone those swings.

 

[naji]

You really want "black and white"?

Shane is the only one that's "full time job" is pool as far as I know.

In case one of them tries to sell something they'll probably get crucified.

LOL, where do you come up with the pictures that quick? I though all Pionys & Chinese top pros do not work, and pool the only way, most of them were in Qatar for two weeks, now in USA for two maybe three weeks what job is that that gives two or three months vacation?

 

[CJ Wiley]

"we live like millionaires, just without the hassle of money or fear of losing it.

Yes, the pro players have a saying "we live like millionaires, just without the hassle of worrying about the money, or fear of losing it".......and so it is.

'The Game is the Teacher'

LOL, where do you come up with the pictures that quick? I though all Pionys & Chinese top pros do not work, and pool the only way, most of them were in Qatar for two weeks, now in USA for two maybe three weeks what job is that that gives two or three months vacation?

 

[naji]

I'm not a fan of magic 'secrets'. If I know something about someone's game which is holding them back I'll let them know, or tell them they might try watching a particular video etc. If you're a teacher you're being paid to share your expertise, so you shouldn't hold anything back. Music teacher's, school teachers etc want to get the best out of their pupils, so I would hope a pool player would do the same. Teachers get work through reputation, not by having secrets no one else knows. There are so many players in the world, and online resources/ forums that I don't think anyone has a fundamentally and entirely original and revolutionary take on cue sports fundamentals

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk

See post # 52. I don't think anyone has a fundamentally and entirely original and revolutionary take on cue sports fundamentals, how do you know that? could the fundamentals teaching we have today is not the best! Why Alex P, Cory Duel, and DAZ and many others did not excel in snooker yet, they are top pros in Pool; are they missing something? what is it? and please do not say talent, or they did not have the patience for it.

CJ what do you think the reason, seriously! you tried snooker, did you , how did you do?


Music players biggest assets is brain,fingers, and ears; pool's biggest assets is brain / eyes / and lots of moving big muscles, which one do you think harder to learn or teach!
Music curriculum is recognized by all governments, and supported by the department of Education; it is uniform across all countries, hope pool gets that way one day.