The Hit and Feel Has Changed!

[SirBanksALot]

Cuemakers......

I traded for an Ernie Martinez cue about a month or so ago and was very neutral or even "underwhelmed" about how the cue played as well as how the "hit" (it felt "dead") was. (I do understand that "hit" is a very subjective term and what one person loves may seem boring to someone else.)

When I originally received the cue the shaft was rather large (13.2 or slightly larger), the cue felt a bit butt heavy and the wrap on it was a white linen w/brown specs-certainly appealing to a lot of folks but unappealing to me.

I took the shaft to a local cuemaker and he took it down to 12.9. In an effort to make it look a little more appealing - I put a great looking medium brown leather wrap on it. Finally-I put a medium hardness layered tip on the cue (I couldn't tell what the old tip was - there wasn't much left on it anyway.)

The results were:

The cue looks much, much better than it did before.
The "hit" is improved 300 per cent
The shaft/tip combo is absolutely perfect.......

From feeling "dead" and little bit clanky, this cue now feels like a full blown racing machine.

Here is my question to you cuemakers....can the slimmer shaft, a new tip and a leather wrap (does a leather wrap change the feeling that is transmiitted to the hands) make that much difference ???????

Thanks -

Keith

 

[rhncue]

Cuemakers......

I traded for an Ernie Martinez cue about a month or so ago and was very neutral or even "underwhelmed" about how the cue played as well as how the "hit" (it felt "dead") was. (I do understand that "hit" is a very subjective term and what one person loves may seem boring to someone else.)

When I originally received the cue the shaft was rather large (13.2 or slightly larger), the cue felt a bit butt heavy and the wrap on it was a white linen w/brown specs-certainly appealing to a lot of folks but unappealing to me.

I took the shaft to a local cuemaker and he took it down to 12.9. In an effort to make it look a little more appealing - I put a great looking medium brown leather wrap on it. Finally-I put a medium hardness layered tip on the cue (I couldn't tell what the old tip was - there wasn't much left on it anyway.)

The results were:

The cue looks much, much better than it did before.
The "hit" is improved 300 per cent
The shaft/tip combo is absolutely perfect.......

From feeling "dead" and little bit clanky, this cue now feels like a full blown racing machine.

Here is my question to you cuemakers....can the slimmer shaft, a new tip and a leather wrap (does a leather wrap change the feeling that is transmiitted to the hands) make that much difference ???????

Thanks -

Keith

Any change on any item on a cue will change the feel or "feed back" on a cue. The one most important item on a cue for both playability and feel is the tip! Next is the ferrule, then shaft. These three, plus the weight of the cue is what mostly affects the performance of the cue ball. The rest of the cue has little effect on the cue ball but these other parts do have a great effect on the feel of the cue. I feel, and this is just my opinion, that leather transmits a softer feel on ball contact over linen or a no wrap cue.

Dick

 

[poolplayer2093]

could have been that you changed the tip and took the shaft down. i'm thinking the shaft thing had something to do with it. i'm not a cuemaker but i just thought i'd throw my 2 cents in.

 

[Mystick Cue Fan]

Sounds like just the tip to me....

 

[SirBanksALot]

could have been that you changed the tip and took the shaft down. i'm thinking the shaft thing had something to do with it. i'm not a cuemaker but i just thought i'd throw my 2 cents in.

Hey--Thanks for the input everyone. I was pleasantly surprised at the difference after those changes. The difference in the feel of the hit is a pleasant deep sound and feel now versus a somewhat harsh clank feel before. The cue is still a bit butt heavy (overall the cue weighs about 19.5 or so) and if I can get the weight bolt out and cut it down just a bit to get the cue around 19.1, this cue will could well turn out to be amazing.

** My only problem then is I'll have about 5 "amazings" and can only play with one at a time.

Again-THANKS FOR THE INPUT!

Keith

 

[bruin70]

you don't need to be a cuemaker to know that you changed the structure of the cue by having the shaft taken down. it's thinner, therefore whippier and has more action. the leather wrap doesn't affect the hit.

i'm not big on violating the original structure of the cue(like taking down a shaft). i don' know a thing about your qmaker, but certainly with some qmakers, they are specific about their choices of materials, and to change anything would undermine their cue's integrity.

 

[poolplayer2093]

hay SirBanksALot you should post some pics including the shaft. does the shaft look any different? did it change the taper or just make it smaler?

 

[SirBanksALot]

Pictures Attached

hay SirBanksALot you should post some pics including the shaft. does the shaft look any different? did it change the taper or just make it smaler?

I put the wrap on just to make it perhaps a little more appealing as I wanted to sell the cue. IMO, the wrap iimproved the looks of the cue for sure. I wasn't going to mess with the shaft but the cuemaker that did the wrap commented that the taper on the shaft was virtually identical to his taper and suggested we turn it down just a bit-it went from 13.2 to 12.9.

** I agree with Bruin70 about major cue modifications-they should be done by the person that built the cue. In this case, the guy that did the wrap/shaft work is very well known, regarded as being very competent and said he would keep the taper the same.

As I said, in my initial post, I now not only like the look of the cue but that small change in the shaft size made a significant improvement (again just my opinion) in the way the cue plays and feels.

 

[poolplayer2093]

i saw pictures of these cues when they were first posted. i really liked the linen wrap they had but i have to give it to ya that leather wrap does look better.

 

[Snapshot9]

Questions

Is the 13.2mm shaft standard for Ernie? or a special size? Low end Joss's have the 13.25mm shaft which makes the cues hit like a steel rod, and I do not care for the feel at all.

First, why would a cuemaker make a shaft bigger than 13mm, since that is the standard, and it is a playing cue and not a break cue, of which many are 14mm so they are stiffer hit for the break and jumping. Besides, many players complain about a 13mm being big in their bridge hand, let alone something bigger.

I like the leather wrap, as I am no fan of light colored wraps (ever see one get dirty?) or of the proverbial black with white spec. (many would look better with a brown tone wrap, color coded better, or a plain black wrap, IMO)

And I don't care who the cuemaker is, I do not like to play with a butt heavy cue.

 

[SirBanksALot]

Is the 13.2mm shaft standard for Ernie? or a special size? Low end Joss's have the 13.25mm shaft which makes the cues hit like a steel rod, and I do not care for the feel at all.

I do not know what is standard for Ernie is but I do believe I have seen other posts indicating that his shafts have been a bit on the thick side. 12Squared can answer your question. I calipered the shaft when I got it and its right at 12.91 or so know.

First, why would a cuemaker make a shaft bigger than 13mm, since that is the standard, and it is a playing cue and not a break cue, of which many are 14mm so they are stiffer hit for the break and jumping. Besides, many players complain about a 13mm being big in their bridge hand, let alone something bigger.

Ernie Martinez is a highly respected cuemaker that I had always heard built a solid cue that plays great. The cue, as I first received it, definitely was solid and played good. However, it made sense to me that if that shaft was thinned down a bit, and a new tip put on it, it could only improve it. At 12.9 and with an almost or even identical taper to Ernies taper, I like the way the cue plays better than I liked it before. With "hit/play" being so subjective and even vague, who is to say......

I like the leather wrap, as I am no fan of light colored wraps (ever see one get dirty?) or of the proverbial black with white spec. (many would look better with a brown tone wrap, color coded better, or a plain black wrap, IMO)

Scott-I'm with you on light colored wraps. As I said earlier, I put the leather on just to snazz it up to resell. IMO, it REALLY snazzed it up.

And I don't care who the cuemaker is, I do not like to play with a butt heavy cue.

As long as I'm tinkering, and since the cue is a bit on the heavy side, I might try and get the weight bolt out and cut it down a bit.

This could be like a Bob Vila or Home Improvement project.

 

[rhncue]

Is the 13.2mm shaft standard for Ernie? or a special size? Low end Joss's have the 13.25mm shaft which makes the cues hit like a steel rod, and I do not care for the feel at all.

First, why would a cuemaker make a shaft bigger than 13mm, since that is the standard, and it is a playing cue and not a break cue, of which many are 14mm so they are stiffer hit for the break and jumping. Besides, many players complain about a 13mm being big in their bridge hand, let alone something bigger.

I like the leather wrap, as I am no fan of light colored wraps (ever see one get dirty?) or of the proverbial black with white spec. (many would look better with a brown tone wrap, color coded better, or a plain black wrap, IMO)

And I don't care who the cuemaker is, I do not like to play with a butt heavy cue.

True, 13mm is sort of standard, but why? Many people like a smaller shaft but their are others who like larger. You buy a cue and the shaft is to large then it can fairly cheaply be turned to the size you like. If someone wants a larger shaft then what are they to do, wrap on tape? For thirty years or so Joss has been making the shafts a little larger just so that the purchaser can have it tuned to the size they prefer

 

[Salamander]

Ernie has been putting out cues with larger shafts because he feels that it's a value thing....ie.... the cue will maintain it's price better since any subsequent owner will always have a nice large shaft to do what he wants with it.

I sold one of my "new" Ernie's that had 13.1mm shafts and I thought the hit was probably to "dead". I feel that it was a combination of the tip (soft), the size, and maybe the taper. My old Ernie, which has 12.6 mm shafts, hits terrific, with a nice firm "ping" to it. Eventually I will put another tip on my other "new" Ernie to see if I can make the "hit" better. This particular cue has 13mm shafts and a taper that I like. However, it too hits a little "mushier" than I like. I suspect that it is the tip since the taper is fairly "stiff".

Regards,

Doug

 

[poolplayer2093]

Ernie has been putting out cues with larger shafts because he feels that it's a value thing....ie.... the cue will maintain it's price better since any subsequent owner will always have a nice large shaft to do what he wants with it.

I sold one of my "new" Ernie's that had 13.1mm shafts and I thought the hit was probably to "dead". I feel that it was a combination of the tip (soft), the size, and maybe the taper. My old Ernie, which has 12.6 mm shafts, hits terrific, with a nice firm "ping" to it. Eventually I will put another tip on my other "new" Ernie to see if I can make the "hit" better. This particular cue has 13mm shafts and a taper that I like. However, it too hits a little "mushier" than I like. I suspect that it is the tip since the taper is fairly "stiff".

Regards,

i had that mushy feel with a cue i used to have. it turned out to be the tip. the shafts that ernie puts onthe cues now, is the wood good enough to be taken down to 12.5 without making it feel whipy?

 

[rhncue]

Ernie has been putting out cues with larger shafts because he feels that it's a value thing....ie.... the cue will maintain it's price better since any subsequent owner will always have a nice large shaft to do what he wants with it.

I sold one of my "new" Ernie's that had 13.1mm shafts and I thought the hit was probably to "dead". I feel that it was a combination of the tip (soft), the size, and maybe the taper. My old Ernie, which has 12.6 mm shafts, hits terrific, with a nice firm "ping" to it. Eventually I will put another tip on my other "new" Ernie to see if I can make the "hit" better. This particular cue has 13mm shafts and a taper that I like. However, it too hits a little "mushier" than I like. I suspect that it is the tip since the taper is fairly "stiff".

Regards,

i had that mushy feel with a cue i used to have. it turned out to be the tip. the shafts that ernie puts onthe cues now, is the wood good enough to be taken down to 12.5 without making it feel whipy?

Taper, not size, determines how whippy a shaft plays. Most 10mm Snooker shafts will be stiffer than a 13mm Meucci.

Dick

 

[cueman]

The shaft is very important on how a cue plays. I quit making shafts for other cues a while back. Locals were buying my cues because they said they played so good. Then I sold a couple of shafts for other brand cues with my special tight grained, many years old wood. Big mistake. Then I started getting requests to make shafts for a lot of cues. I turned it all down and then started getting asked to retaper and ferrule their existing shafts like mine if it was possible. Someone will usually be willing to drop $150 on a shaft to improve their cues play, faster than $500 to a $1500 for another cue. I saw I would deplete my years old shaft stock in a hurry if I continued building spare shafts for other cues and those brands would get the credit for playing so good. Seemed like I would be shooting myself in the foot.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[Fatboy]

And I don't care who the cuemaker is, I do not like to play with a butt heavy cue.

Which seems to be the case with just about all the mass production cues with adjustable weight screws in the butt. They can keep those cues. Its great for a sales tool "No Problem, we'll make the cue just the weight you want it to be"

 

[Fatboy]

The shaft is very important on how a cue plays. I quit making shafts for other cues a while back. Locals were buying my cues because they said they played so good. Then I sold a couple of shafts for other brand cues with my special tight grained, many years old wood. Big mistake. Then I started getting requests to make shafts for a lot of cues. I turned it all down and then started getting asked to retaper and ferrule their existing shafts like mine if it was possible. Someone will usually be willing to drop $150 on a shaft to improve their cues play, faster than $500 to a $1500 for another cue. I saw I would deplete my years old shaft stock in a hurry if I continued building spare shafts for other cues and those brands would get the credit for playing so good. Seemed like I would be shooting myself in the foot.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

What % of shaft wood you recieve is useable? if you dont mind me asking, if you dont want to say thats cool its your business, my point is its getting worse and worse, I was talking to Laurie at South West the other day and its pretty bad, they have just enough for the cues they make and barely enough for replacments for existing customers. I'm sure any cue maker could find a Good blank for $300 to build a non-customer a shaft.