The horrible APA

trob said:
It's not complicated lol it allows you to to play even with a better without putting the work in. I had to put in a lot of practice so I could play straight up with better players...that was my motivation to get better. Handycapps just make it an even match without that work.
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It's a recreational league, so its goal is to draw in people that want to have something to do. Some of the people are just happy to get away from family responsibilities and so on. No big deal. Many of the people I know want to get better, it's just a matter of how badly they want it, how much time/effort/money they're willing to put forth and then there's the idea of a limited capacity of ability.

I like the handicap. It allowed me to 'have a chance' in a match against better players when I was getting better. Now that I've reached the end, I practice by giving my friends an extra handicap. One is a 6/7, so I usually play him starting with a 9-6 APA-9b race for $5. If I do well, I give him another s/l, if he's shooting well then I may ask him to shoot his rating(he's free to disagree), but I prefer to see how low I can get him to. I've won and lost at 4. If he beats me, he knows he shouldn't have too much trouble playing a 6 or something afterwards. In 8, we play $1:$1 until I get to, I think, $3. After that, he gets $2:$1. If I make it to.. umm.. 10, then I think it becomes $3:$1. Obviously, we don't play for enough for anybody to get upset(except when I win a bunch in 8, then only lose a few and we're even! :confused:).

The handicap isn't there for people to not work. It's there to compensate for an uneven match-up. Whether or not somebody is going to put in the work to get better is completely up to them(or their wife). I'm no killer, but APA got me into the game and gave me a reason to play, the work part is up to me. First goal was to go up, then to be a 7, then to be a 9, next is to be an A, then a master, then we'll see after that. I started posting here in about the first year I played, so it will be interesting to go back and see how my thoughts have changed on things since then when I get the feeling the do so.
 
Sorry ..we will have to agree to disagree. I think handycapp pool is like welfare. It helps the lazy people so they don't have to work lol.



Banks said:
It's a recreational league, so its goal is to draw in people that want to have something to do. Some of the people are just happy to get away from family responsibilities and so on. No big deal. Many of the people I know want to get better, it's just a matter of how badly they want it, how much time/effort/money they're willing to put forth and then there's the idea of a limited capacity of ability.

I like the handicap. It allowed me to 'have a chance' in a match against better players when I was getting better. Now that I've reached the end, I practice by giving my friends an extra handicap. One is a 6/7, so I usually play him starting with a 9-6 APA-9b race for $5. If I do well, I give him another s/l, if he's shooting well then I may ask him to shoot his rating(he's free to disagree), but I prefer to see how low I can get him to. I've won and lost at 4. If he beats me, he knows he shouldn't have too much trouble playing a 6 or something afterwards. In 8, we play $1:$1 until I get to, I think, $3. After that, he gets $2:$1. If I make it to.. umm.. 10, then I think it becomes $3:$1. Obviously, we don't play for enough for anybody to get upset(except when I win a bunch in 8, then only lose a few and we're even! :confused:).

The handicap isn't there for people to not work. It's there to compensate for an uneven match-up. Whether or not somebody is going to put in the work to get better is completely up to them(or their wife). I'm no killer, but APA got me into the game and gave me a reason to play, the work part is up to me. First goal was to go up, then to be a 7, then to be a 9, next is to be an A, then a master, then we'll see after that. I started posting here in about the first year I played, so it will be interesting to go back and see how my thoughts have changed on things since then when I get the feeling the do so.
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trob said:
Sorry ..we will have to agree to disagree. I think handycapp pool is like welfare. It helps the lazy people so they don't have to work lol.
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I didn't ask you to agree with me, I was just laying down some facts. You're welcome to an even game if we ever meet. You can one-up me if you want and give me a spot, since that would be the manly thing to do.

Go around and get your racking on against the best, because that's how you think you'll get better. Let me know how that works out for ya, just don't be calling collect. :rolleyes:

I play APA. My most expensive pool item is my Z shaft. Probably 99% of my play has been on bar tables. I've never really had regular competition that's been rated higher. I could probably offer you a spot in at least one game, if not more. People like you crack me up, but make me a bit sad when I think that you're serious.
 
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Most people i ask in my area that play in the apa, why they play apa is simple really. Vegas. they do it all for Vegas. i get it i guess. thats a nice cherry for all the bs you put up with. Even with vegas as the grand prize, i still cant bring myself to play in the apa. Sure ive be recuited like crazy, but my respect for my game far out weighs what they have to offer. My pool room cant even keep a weekly tourney goin, because everyone wants to use apa rules. I mean wtf! What happend to the days where you stepped up and actually played someone with out asking " what are you in the apa?" Really? SMH.
I say this, the apa are done some "good" for pool. But there is only a few pool players that have come out of that league. Some of you might say, well so and so is in a 7 or 9 or whatever. Chances are they were probably good way before they played in apa. the only reason they played in the first place is cause the apa killed all hopes of a good heads up tourney.

Call me old school. the place i played in, there be champions there. Nothing came easy, and you mention the word weight before the first set was even broke you got laughed at. I got better by gambling, practice, gambling, tourneys, and more gambling. Ive payed my dues. Im only 28 and i wish i got to play in the old days before cell phones, leagues, the internet. Those were the days were real pool players played. someone walked in and they could just smell the money. where are they now? gone. deleted from history because of this so called greatest leauge on earth. Tell me what has the apa done for pool besides produce players with no balls? TAILS!!!




Sorry i love the game. Not just 9 ball or 8 ball. but the game and everything that goes with it. its chess on a 4 1/2 x 9 board. The game where luck can become a skill and someone can always win. Wanna beat someone, dont miss. that helps. play better, thats a good one too.
 
You can go back to that era, and have a higher level of play, on average, but there won't he enough people playing to support the rooms. Then where you be?

Leagues have a place. People who aren't as serious will still enjoy the game, and more importantly, support the room, and the equipment manufacturers and resellers. A small percentage of them (us, I suppose) will genuinely improve and graduate from leagues, to become your fish.

Complaining about leagues, at this point in time, is like trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Why not try to work with the better league players, and try to get them to grow beyond league?
 
Chess game on 4 and a half by 9 board... I have always said this. That is why I love the game. APA is a trend much like the other fields have their own. I will never be fooled into going to Vegas by the APA and spending my hard earned cash to pay after I won the first prize in the APA. Been there, did not do that. They also lie about the costs of going to Vegas and don't give enough. The second prize winners actually get cash. The first prize winners pay.... Enough said. They can have their 15 seconds....
 
It's worked well for me... But then I also do stroke and position drills every day because that's really how you get better. League pool of any kind doesn't make you better..it's a fun night out with friends.

The apa as I've said before is a two sided sword. On one side it's nice to see peopke getting out and playing who normally wouldn't because they feel like they have a chance. ... On the other side because you need them to stay a low number no one wants to help them get better lol

Other then apa I don't give spots. I never took them either. How do you learn where your games if your taking spots? Though the game has never been about money for me...I play every day because I love it and couldn't care less if it ever makes me a dime.


Banks said:
I didn't ask you to agree with me, I was just laying down some facts. You're welcome to an even game if we ever meet. You can one-up me if you want and give me a spot, since that would be the manly thing to do.

Go around and get your racking on against the best, because that's how you think you'll get better. Let me know how that works out for ya, just don't be calling collect. :rolleyes:

I play APA. My most expensive pool item is my Z shaft. Probably 99% of my play has been on bar tables. I've never really had regular competition that's been rated higher. I could probably offer you a spot in at least one game, if not more. People like you crack me up, but make me a bit sad when I think that you're serious.
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My 9 ball team in the APA must be very different. I am one of those low level skill players everyone wants so their higher level handicaps can play. My team wants nothing more than for me to get better, and all help me when we practice giving advice and supporting my quest to improve. We as a team all want each other to improve, and if that means we have to change our team line up then so be it. We joke with each other about it all the time. "Hey Steve if you go up to a seven and we can't use you anymore, whatever team you are on.....we are gonna kick your butt" Its all fun, but to say that no one wants to improve or help their low level skill levels improve is a falacy. My team for one is behind me every week. Our captain told all of us Don't worry about the numbers thats my job, go out and do your best improve your game and let me deal with any changes in our numbers. As a team, we have a great time, I have made some life time friends, and best yet, my game is improving and I am learning ALOT.
 
It is what you make of it. I do not like the corruption of the game nor the people who are there for the wrong reasons. I have made good friends in the league as well and have helped people to improve their game as well as stay on the team when they where being kicked out for not being "good enough". Strangely, they are still playing there while I have moved on. I think I will try the BCA when the time allows. For now, its back to the good old fashioned pool hall and a friendly game. Still the best.
 
DonsSmidget said:
My 9 ball team in the APA must be very different. I am one of those low level skill players everyone wants so their higher level handicaps can play. My team wants nothing more than for me to get better, and all help me when we practice giving advice and supporting my quest to improve. We as a team all want each other to improve, and if that means we have to change our team line up then so be it. We joke with each other about it all the time. "Hey Steve if you go up to a seven and we can't use you anymore, whatever team you are on.....we are gonna kick your butt" Its all fun, but to say that no one wants to improve or help their low level skill levels improve is a falacy. My team for one is behind me every week. Our captain told all of us Don't worry about the numbers thats my job, go out and do your best improve your game and let me deal with any changes in our numbers. As a team, we have a great time, I have made some life time friends, and best yet, my game is improving and I am learning ALOT.
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Tap, tap, tap.

No, your team isn't necessarily different than "everybody" else, because that's how it goes around here, too. It's pretty much a given that we'll probably have to make a change or two once in a while. Peoples skill level goes up. Or sometimes people can't play for other reasons, so there's another opportunity to change the mix.

It's in the beginning stages of happening to both my 8-ball and my 9-ball teams right now. And I know that I'll be going up, at least in 9-ball, soon. Which I'm trying to do!
 
I have been a MAJOR supporter of the CPA/APA for over 10 years (5 just as a player and 5 as a player and division rep) I was also part of the hrc (handicap review committee) and was my LO"s right hand man and boy do i wish i had NEVER been apart of it. This league of over 260,000 members is nothing more then a cash cow. When i was at the NC this year i could not believe how terrible the tables were in the Mini room so when i voiced my opinion to the American Pocketbook Assassins on Facebook i was told that all the tables are fine and had just been re-leveled. Wow they did 100 tables over night damm these guys are good. well i went back the next day and low and behold the same table (95) that was like playing on a boat was now WORSE wtf. So again i leave a msg on FB and guess what....Im told that if i post anymore negative remarks about the tables or the APA i will be asked to leave HA. Now my LO goes nuts on me, why for speaking my mind.... You would think that a league with 260,000 members would listen but all they care about is the bottom line and that line is 2 things... (1) once you become a SL 6 or higher they dont care about you (2) This league is all about bagging sand,sand and MORE SAND. How can a player be a SL4 for 6 years and he plays 4 times a week? That answer is easy win on lose one, Run a rack then miss every damn ball the next. I have moved players up just to see them get moved back down because the team dose not want to split. So i said F it im done, why bust my ass just to see it all go down the drain. And another thing my LO is telling players that if you play in his league you CANT go play in the cash league a local pool hall is going to run( he had a fallout with the owner). Im a grown ass man and NOBODY can tell me where i can or cant play pool. All leagues are the same nothing but B.S. i would like to finish off with a quote from Cj Wiley "The reason this hits so close to home for me is "The Pool World" seems to have strayed away from a capitalistic path through "tricky equipment, changing rules to create more "luck", therefore limiting skill, and creating handicap systems to "equalize everyone", and if you look at professional pool's steady decline the last 12 years will you agree (?) that socialistic structure is a recipe for fail
ure even in the example of a "Game"?....Can it be that trying to "make things fair" and "treating everyone the same" has actually led to, at least temperately, the demise of Pool? Is it too late to make the game challenging again, so the true cream of the crop can Dominate the Game?

In This Example - A professor uses grades, but Substitute Money for Grades to understand the following example of a socialist system in place at a school:

All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the
same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A....
(substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.

As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little. The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling (this never happens in the "Pool World" LoL) all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed."
 
evanlockhart said:
Pool was at its peak far before the APA came along. Where exactly, is pool now? I'd love to hear more on your insight regarding how incredible the pool community is because of the APA. Arizona must have it good!
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Pool is what you make of it. The APA sucks for all you people here because you feel you are entitled to everything and that us lower rated players should have to earn our way in to everything.

The people that have a problem with the APA are the people that have lost sight of what pool is about...pool isn't a sport. Pool isn't that...pool is a social game...like it or not. Thats what the APA is about...at least where I play anyway.

Sure...Vegas is a BIG thing in the APA...but thats because most of us in the APA play for FUN...not for money...not so we can go out and become a pro...but because we get to go out each week and play with some friends and have a good time.

That is why pool will never become a "sport" as you all want to call it. Call the game what it is and it will prosper more and more...stop being entitled douche bags and welcome everyone into the game.

Pool has become a class system nowadays...and everyone on AZBilliards are the rich, white, republicans who feel entitled to everything...gotta have diamonds, gotta have added money in tournaments, gotta get rid of handicaps so everyone is the same...

get over yourself...seriously...have some fun
 
SO everyone should just be average and happy about it. You shouldn't work hard to better whether you love the game or not lol you voted for Obama didn't you? I smell liberal bullshit all over you.



abie10 said:
Pool is what you make of it. The APA sucks for all you people here because you feel you are entitled to everything and that us lower rated players should have to earn our way in to everything.

The people that have a problem with the APA are the people that have lost sight of what pool is about...pool isn't a sport. Pool isn't that...pool is a social game...like it or not. Thats what the APA is about...at least where I play anyway.

Sure...Vegas is a BIG thing in the APA...but thats because most of us in the APA play for FUN...not for money...not so we can go out and become a pro...but because we get to go out each week and play with some friends and have a good time.

That is why pool will never become a "sport" as you all want to call it. Call the game what it is and it will prosper more and more...stop being entitled douche bags and welcome everyone into the game.

Pool has become a class system nowadays...and everyone on AZBilliards are the rich, white, republicans who feel entitled to everything...gotta have diamonds, gotta have added money in tournaments, gotta get rid of handicaps so everyone is the same...

get over yourself...seriously...have some fun
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So I guess I must be imagining it when Im told not to help a low level player because they don't want them moving up. I must be hearing things I guess. Lol. I guess I'm just misunderstanding them when there giving me tips on what to do so I don't get moved up to a nine.

Btw I don't sandbag... I want to beat the pants off anyone I play and I don't give a crap what it does to my handycapp. I try to help everyone Play the game better if that's what they want to do.



justadub said:
Tap, tap, tap.

No, your team isn't necessarily different than "everybody" else, because that's how it goes around here, too. It's pretty much a given that we'll probably have to make a change or two once in a while. Peoples skill level goes up. Or sometimes people can't play for other reasons, so there's another opportunity to change the mix.

It's in the beginning stages of happening to both my 8-ball and my 9-ball teams right now. And I know that I'll be going up, at least in 9-ball, soon. Which I'm trying to do!
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trob said:
So I guess I must be imagining it when Im told not to help a low level player because they don't want them moving up. I must be hearing things I guess. Lol. I guess I'm just misunderstanding them when there giving me tips on what to do so I don't get moved up to a nine.

Btw I don't sandbag... I want to beat the pants off anyone I play and I don't give a crap what it does to my handycapp. I try to help everyone Play the game better if that's what they want to do.
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I've had people say that I should play down. I tell them there's no chance in hell. That's happened two or three times over my 7 1/2 years. Only one of them can still give me a game. I figure, if I keep it up, 7/9 isn't going to be enough of a handicap to give them a chance anyhow. It's been working fairly well so far. Can't wait til I get better. I don't play to lose and neither do my teammates. Some of my friends have improved quite a bit over their starting skill, and that's one of the best things to watch happen.
 
Thank You APA

I would like to extend a sincere thanks to the APA and all other pool leagues and all that are associated with them for keeping the pool rooms going that I play my weekend and all other tournaments in. I don't play leagues and never will most likely, but I know leagues generate income for pool room owners and I'm grateful for that because then I have a place to play.
 
Maestro said:
Chess game on 4 and a half by 9 board... I have always said this. That is why I love the game. APA is a trend much like the other fields have their own. I will never be fooled into going to Vegas by the APA and spending my hard earned cash to pay after I won the first prize in the APA. Been there, did not do that. They also lie about the costs of going to Vegas and don't give enough. The second prize winners actually get cash. The first prize winners pay.... Enough said. They can have their 15 seconds....
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Im sorry, Im not sure where you play, but your full of crap.

My friends and I won the 2007 and 2008 APA 3MAN MASTERS IN VEGAS AND TOOK 3RD IN 2009. Team name GOOF TROOP

Thats a total of $18,500 WHICH WAS ALL PAID IN CASH!!!!!!
WITH NO TAX FORMS TO BE FILLED OUT

MY 9 BALL OPEN TEAM TOOK 3RD LAST YEAR IN VEGAS, WON $3500 I BELIEVE. ALL PAID IN CASH!!!!!! Team Name Mickey Mouse Club

IVE TAKEN 2ND IN THE SOUTHWEST AND MY BROTHER HAS WON 1ST AND SECOND FOLLOWING YEARS....WANNA HEAR SOMETHIGN FUNNY???

ALL PAID IN CASH, TAX FREE !!!!!

I think as a group my boys and I have made over $30,000 in cash tax free from the APA in the last 5 years.

Also to be included, all vegas trips, hotel and part of your food is paid IN CASH!!!!!! TAX FREE!!!! by the APA and league operator

All I can say is im sorry your having such a bad experience in the APA, but truth be told...you didnt win anything in vegas :p
 
trob said:
So I guess I must be imagining it when Im told not to help a low level player because they don't want them moving up. I must be hearing things I guess. Lol. I guess I'm just misunderstanding them when there giving me tips on what to do so I don't get moved up to a nine.

Btw I don't sandbag... I want to beat the pants off anyone I play and I don't give a crap what it does to my handycapp. I try to help everyone Play the game better if that's what they want to do.
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Well, the people who are telling you to not help the low level players are.....ok, I'm not gonna drop a hateful name, they are simply and surely wrong. It sucks that people have to be that way.

I guess i'm imagining things, too, when we have a division with about 140 people who pretty much all get along, and encourage each other, and yes....some of us actively try to improve. I have never seen nor heard anyone ever tell someone to not help another player....that is wrong on so many levels that its sickening. I'm quite glad that I don't play there. I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't. By thats not the APAs fault, that's the fault of people with low character.
 
jbbilliards1 said:
Im sorry, Im not sure where you play, but your full of crap.

My friends and I won the 2007 and 2008 APA 3MAN MASTERS IN VEGAS AND TOOK 3RD IN 2009. Team name GOOF TROOP

Thats a total of $18,500 WHICH WAS ALL PAID IN CASH!!!!!!
WITH NO TAX FORMS TO BE FILLED OUT

MY 9 BALL OPEN TEAM TOOK 3RD LAST YEAR IN VEGAS, WON $3500 I BELIEVE. ALL PAID IN CASH!!!!!! Team Name Mickey Mouse Club

IVE TAKEN 2ND IN THE SOUTHWEST AND MY BROTHER HAS WON 1ST AND SECOND FOLLOWING YEARS....WANNA HEAR SOMETHIGN FUNNY???

ALL PAID IN CASH, TAX FREE !!!!!

I think as a group my boys and I have made over $30,000 in cash tax free from the APA in the last 5 years.

Also to be included, all vegas trips, hotel and part of your food is paid IN CASH!!!!!! TAX FREE!!!! by the APA and league operator

All I can say is im sorry your having such a bad experience in the APA, but truth be told...you didnt win anything in vegas :p
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Don't know that I'd be spreading that around. The IRS may be listening...
 
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