The Law and Tournaments

D

Dave in Boston

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was just wondering if anyone has seen this or heard of this before, also if anyone knows the law that might be involved with this.

I was playing in a weekly 15 dollar tournament last night when the police and an inspector walked into the pool hall. They noticed the tournament going on and said that it was illegal and SHUT it down and told the person running the tourney to return all the money back to the players.

He said this was a form of organized gambling and that it was against the law. Now I know that tourney’s are held all over the town where this happened in a state that has hundreds of them (along with the Joss tour). I am just wondering if anyone else has seen or heard of something like this before. And/or does anyone know a general laws against or for tournaments.

(Oh and by the way of course I was undefeated in the tourney)

Thanks
Dave
:mad:
 
That's nuts.

I'd love to see the MA legal definition of gambling.

I'm sure the stock market would qualify. Watch out global capitalism, the Boston fuzz are coming after ya!
 
The only thing that can skirt the law even a little is a calcutta. But its good to recognize that a tournament that takes out green fees could be construed as the same as a poker game where the house takes out of the pot. Its really up to how much the politics of the town likes or dislikes pool. Where I am at, they are so busy making sure we close at 2 am, you could drive by the pool room at 125 MPH and they would probably do nothing but sit in our parking lot waiting for the last car to leave.

Joe
 
I've heard of the police closing a place for a specified period (30 days?) once when they found out two players were gambling playing pool. That was a long time ago and I haven't heard anything like it since. There must have been some trouble there or something that made the police want to send a message or something? As if pool doesn't have enough problems!!
 
That is amazing. I had heard of one of the tourneys in Seattle's break pot got up to $1500 so all of the sharks were coming to the tourney to try their shot at it. I mean a $10/entry tourney was getting 45-50 players on a Tuesday night with only the first 32 allowed to play. But anyways I heard that an IRS guy got wind of it and showed up at the tourney every week until someone finally won the break pot and had to sign an acknowledgement form that he made that extra money so the gov't could tax him later.

On another note...if you declared all of your tourney winnings at the end of the year, could you write off a new pool cue as a business expense? Or would you have to technically start your own company. Call is TSPP, Inc. (Todd S Pool Player, Inc.)
 
In my state (Minnesota), I have been told by one police officer, its only against the law if the house profits.
 
I think a Calcutta is worse then a straight out tournament. This particular tourney did NOT have a Calcutta and "supposedly" they didn’t take out any green fees.

I just don’t understand I guess on how they can call this gambling. So according to these guys last night things like, Cash bowling leagues, dart leagues pool leagues like the APA which give cash for first and second or what ever are all illegal. According to them Golf tourney's are illegal.

I guess I just don't understand lol.
 
The law ...

Hi Dave,

Were the police that shut the tourney down local, regional or state? If they are local, and they continue to harass the room, I would demand to know when they last shut down a golf tourney at a local club. How about a dart tourney or a bowling tourney. It appears that it is harassment of the owner. I've been to Quincy several times. Mark appears to run a really nice room. Hope he can get to the bottom of this. I expected to hear it was Country Club USA. Perhaps a visit to the headquarters of the police agency involved would clear things up!
 
It was locals that did it.

Its just a shame is all, that all they have to do is harrasse and bust a local place like that when god only knows whats going on down the streat. You would think the police are there to "Protect and Serve" not bust peoples little tourney WHO is that protecting hhmmm
 
this is just ridiculous...a tournament is in no way gambling...they tried that crap where i used to live and the local judge stopped the law in their tracks and said that pool is a game of skill and even if we were playing for money it is not gambling...skill games are not gambling however a calcutta is gambling and has been banned in a lot of places...but there would be a lot of questions for the law enforcement if i were the owner of that place
 
It seems to be a crime to play pool for money:

CHAPTER 271. CRIMES AGAINST PUBLIC POLICY

Chapter 271: Section 4 Gaming in inns and other occupied places; use of billiard table, bowling alley or other implement for gaming

Section 4. Whoever, in any place mentioned in the preceding section, for the purpose of gaming for money or other property, uses or takes part in using a billiard table, bowling alley or other implement of gaming, or there plays at an unlawful game or sport, or, for the purpose of such gaming, uses or takes part in using a billiard table or bowling alley kept by a person licensed under chapter one hundred and forty, shall forfeit not more than fifty dollars.

Just don't do it in Mass.
Ken
 
When I was at UW there were signs posted all throughout our Games Area (15 pool table,10 bowling lanes, 4 pingpong, 2 foosball) that said something to the effect of:

Seattle Ordinance 15.3342.2a
Gambling is prohibited on these premises
Offenders subject to arrest.

Didn't stop us from doing it for a soda or race to 7 for $5 for fun or small entry fee tourneys. But still amazed the hell out of me.
 
law and tournaments

If I was the room oner I would find out when the next local golf tournament was to be held, and take the officer out and ask him to show me the difference? noneI have even played In golf tournys ehere the have calcuttas!!!! harassment!!!!!!!1
 
Someone stated earlier that it's illegal only if the house profits. I think that's correct. How many pool halls can you think of that make much off a tournament, or break even? I don't think it's illegal. Even if it was how would you enforce a law like that. It's like taping an NFL game.
 
If this single pool room has been the only one in the area that has been bothered by this type of heat enforcement, it does beg the question: Why this room and no others?

ManlyShot
 
Sounds to the local law enforcement has an axe to grind with the pool hall. Course the cops only enforce the law (or their perception of it), let a judge interpet and decide.
 
I should add.... Was a citation or ticket issued? If so, I would contest it in court. If not, hold another tournament...
 
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