John Barton
New member
Although SJM I would like to add that I think one pocket is the pocket billiard game which has the highest requirement for overall billiard knowledge.
The "new" 9-ball: Changing the game to reflect the new equipment
- Thread starter Shawn Armstrong
- Start date
John Barton said:
I would agree that's it's a close choice, but I feel one pocket is a game involving far less cue ball movement than nine ball, so billiard knowledge comes up less. Still, one pocket does places a premium on billiard knowledge, and it's one of the things I like about the game.
If the beautiful games of snooker, billiards and pool were conceived with the intention of rewarding players who cause the cue ball to leave the playing surface and fly through the air, they would be payed on much larger tables and we'd all be wearing kicking boots and developing a strong throwing arm
The notion that allowing jump shots is justified by its success in cutting down the unearned benefits of unintentional hooks following missed pot attempts is in the eyes of many a step too far in attempting to legislate for luck. All of the world's most popular games retain elements of luck and the existence of the possible benefits of such luck is not always to the detriment of that game, quite the reverse in some cases.
Should we try to find a ruling or piece of equipment to equalise lady luck's effect for the match play opponent of a golfer who incorrectly chooses a 7 iron instead of a 4 iron for their 205 yard approach shot, but on execution then thins it in such a bad way that it scuttles along 3 feet off the ground and duly trundles up to within a foot of the flag (better known in Scotland as a screw your sister shot.....you're up there but you're not proud of it )?
Accidental hooks are of course extremely annoying to be on the wrong end of, but to be fair they don't happen at a very regular frequency ratio at decent playing levels. Furthermore, even if it were to be accepted that there is a pressing requirement for this particular element of pool luck to be nullified it does not have to be done by allowing jump shots, there are other ways and some have already been suggested.
Jump shots are simultaneously both a gimmick and a skill. Whether they enhance the game as a playing experience or as a spectacle is a matter of taste. My humble two cents worth is that they have their place in the entertainment bracket and that place is in trickshot competitions and exhibitions.
The notion that allowing jump shots is justified by its success in cutting down the unearned benefits of unintentional hooks following missed pot attempts is in the eyes of many a step too far in attempting to legislate for luck. All of the world's most popular games retain elements of luck and the existence of the possible benefits of such luck is not always to the detriment of that game, quite the reverse in some cases.
Should we try to find a ruling or piece of equipment to equalise lady luck's effect for the match play opponent of a golfer who incorrectly chooses a 7 iron instead of a 4 iron for their 205 yard approach shot, but on execution then thins it in such a bad way that it scuttles along 3 feet off the ground and duly trundles up to within a foot of the flag (better known in Scotland as a screw your sister shot.....you're up there but you're not proud of it
)?Accidental hooks are of course extremely annoying to be on the wrong end of, but to be fair they don't happen at a very regular frequency ratio at decent playing levels. Furthermore, even if it were to be accepted that there is a pressing requirement for this particular element of pool luck to be nullified it does not have to be done by allowing jump shots, there are other ways and some have already been suggested.
Jump shots are simultaneously both a gimmick and a skill. Whether they enhance the game as a playing experience or as a spectacle is a matter of taste. My humble two cents worth is that they have their place in the entertainment bracket and that place is in trickshot competitions and exhibitions.
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Thanks to computers, you now need to be computer-literate to play the game at a higher level!crosseyedjoe said:
Oddball said:
NO, we're talking about skill evolving with the game, not the game itself.
PoolSharkAllen said:Thanks to computers, you now need to be computer-literate to play the game at a higher level!
That I can accept.
Going back to the subject;
So a skill increase by a factor of 200% (or up to 1000%) due to new equipment is not of concern to anyone?
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In many sports, the athlete that has the budget to buy more expensive and better equipment, will do so. If you have the money for training, many athletes will get the best training that money can buy.crosseyedjoe said:
In that context, a skill increase due to new equipment is not a concern to me. Since anyone can purchase a decent jump cue for about $100 or so, you have an incentive to keep this weapon in your pool-playing arsenal.
PoolSharkAllen said:
Well other than the cases I mentioned earlier about aluminum baseball bats, some metal alloys not allowed in golf clubs, and tennis racket sweet spot area, which by the way are not banned because other players can't afford them but because of the amount of "purity" that is taken out of the game due to those equipments, I never heard of any legal equipment that boost your skill by that much.
Wow, just imagine spring-loaded basketball shoes.
Flex said:
Actually, if you want my actual take, allow me to put it in my words -
I want rules that favor the practice I've invested in my game. Jumping with a full cue is a skill shot that not everyone can do. I'd like to think that the person who performs one against me mastered it by practice not by purchase. I have no idea how you can construe that to mean I'm liberal other than perhaps you're still hung-up on the fact I'm from New York.
Shawn Armstrong said:
That's idiotic. I'll agree now that jumping is easier on those shots. Not all safes are like that though. A lot of safes have more then one blocking ball, are close the the blocking ball and elimate jumping. THIS IS WHY IT MUST BE DONE IN GAME.
To setup all jumpable safes is retarded. That's just ridiculous. Who in this thread said kicking and jumping required the same amount of skill? I remember seeing people say they both require certain skill, but they way you are doing it you are just setting up a bunch of easy jumps. How can you call this fair?
Another way I see it is just play a match up until someone has to shoot a safe and then have them play the safe and try the jump or the kick. the only way to be certain which is more effective is have someone safe you instead of just setting shots up.
How is that fair? We all want that...Jude Rosenstock said:
Instead, practice according to what the rules are and dont complain when someone makes a good hit when following the rules.
Heath<------wants to only shoot straight in shots in a game because that's all he practices LOL
Icon of Sin said:
You've taken me out of context. My point is that the jump cue does not demand the same skill-set that a full-cue jump shot demands. If you want a shot in your arsenel, I think you should practice, not purchase the equipment that will make it easier.
BTW, I don't complain when someone makes a good hit when following the rules. I have no idea where you got that from.
I still don't see how this makes sense. It is sounding like since you do not use jump cues and took the time to learn to jump with a full cue then it should be that way for everyone regardless what the rules say.Jude Rosenstock said:
Sorry. With all the rants going on and people complaining about opponents making good hits with jump cues I assumed that you were in this crowd as well since it seems you are against jump cues. My apologies.
Due to technological advances, many athletes are able to buy the latest equipment that can give them an edge over other athletes that don't have the latest advances.crosseyedjoe said:
Bicycles, for example, are getting lighter all the time due to advances in lighter and stronger composite alloys. These technological advances can give one athlete an advantage over another. Yacht racing would be another example.
Speaking of spring-loaded basketball shoes, have you heard about those new golf balls on the market that fly further than its predecessors?
If you're a golfer, you might want a box of those new-fangled balls in your bag.
Icon of Sin said:
No, I'll play by whatever rules are presented. If the rules allow jump-cues, I'll use my own. However, I would prefer it if they weren't used at all.
PoolSharkAllen said:Due to technological advances, many athletes are able to buy the latest equipment that can give them an edge over other athletes that don't have the latest advances.
Bicycles, for example, are getting lighter all the time due to advances in lighter and stronger composite alloys. These technological advances can give one athlete an advantage over another. Yacht racing would be another example.
Speaking of spring-loaded basketball shoes, have you heard about those new golf balls on the market that fly further than its predecessors?
Actually, it's interesting you should bring up bicycling. There are restrictions on the type of equipment they are allowed to use. If memory serves correct, there are a whole slew of handlebars that were invented following the introduction of "superman handlebars". They've also made restrictions on how low you may crouch and how far forward you may lean.
Are there rules in bicycling baring the use of lighter (but stronger) composite alloys? The lighter the bike, the faster you can ride.Jude Rosenstock said:
PoolSharkAllen said:
Superman handlebars has the rider stretched-out (as though flying like Superman) to make the rider more aero-dynamic. I mean, there have been tons of improvements to bicycles over the years (material being just one of them) yet the powers-that-be still feel that the general shape of the bike should remain unchanged.
PoolSharkAllen said:Speaking of spring-loaded basketball shoes, have you heard about those new golf balls on the market that fly further than its predecessors?
LOL, they're not new. Those are actually banned in pro golf tournament a long time ago. It's a good case of technology taking over human prowess. Those golf balls have deeper and wider craters by the poles, so it could ride the wind better.