The "new" 9-ball: Changing the game to reflect the new equipment

[Franky]

I don't feel that jumping equipment really complies with the spirit of pocket billiards. I DO own a jump/break cue but only pull it out occasionally. You guys are all involving yourselves in an discussion that has no clear answer.

The argument that, "we should be able to use any tool that has a benefit to gameplay" is simply not compelling to me. What's next...a case that has a TV, radio, and beer tap like the one in Caddyshack? Or how 'bout laser sighted devices in actual gameplay?? Or sharks with lasers? (pew pew)

And before someone says, "Oh yaaaa? What about the leather tip invention?" The leather tip was a change that elevated the game to an art form. The jump cue was a change that made room-owners cringe and grown men cover their nutsacks in fear.

I'd prefer if players be permitted to play with one cue of fixed length only (10mm-14mm compressible tip; 52"-62" in length). Forceful break shots may be played with another cue provided it does not damage the cueball. Other cueing implements or in-game modifications to existing cueing implements would not be allowed.

PS - One pocket is better!!!!!

 

[MasterClass]

I am not really sure if this thread is about the jump cue or the jump shot.

I have seen Earl and Thorsten do a jump shot with their playing cue.

The game have developed. Jump shots open another dimension of the game.

People are now jumping to make balls instead of just trying to find an easy way out.

IMO if i play a safety when i leave the ball for my opponent where he could try to jump and make the ball. Then it is not at all a good safety. Jump shot just raised the bar on the requirements of a good safety to hook the opponent. Even without the jump cue we should strive for no less. Helps people remember not to get careless.

 

[smashmouth]

You're acting like the jump cue gives the other guy an unfair advantage. You're allowed to jump too.

I'm not crazy about the jump cue either, but I can't help but think that some people who are against jumping are in reality unable to execute effective jumps on their own, therefore want the jump banned.

Reminds me of playing the bangers at the local room. You know the ones who say they don't believe in playing safe, they think it's like cheating or "dirty pool" That's because they don't have a clue how to play a good safe.

you couldn't be more wrong, it ABSOLUTELY can give your opponent an advantage since all the time a player may have put into developing their jump skills with a normal cue has now been nullified to a very large extent

and more often than not the players who are for jump cues tend to have little skill jumping with a normal cue

look at it from this perspective, at what point does the equipment become too effective?

for example, they continue to develop golf clubs that drive the ball further and more accurately with less effort, and balls that stay airborne longer

when is enough enough?

Will this same argument occur as masse cues gain popularity? or tips that can draw the ball two table lengths with no stroke at all? I see bangers using x breakers at the local rooms whose break makes what you see at the world championships laughable, it's ridiculous imo


the last piece required in the development of Billiard equipment is the chalkless tip, everything else is damn near perfect enough

 

[etimmons]

I don't think people who MAKE or SELL jump cues can have a totally unbiased opinion, John. Sorry.

Shawn that is my opinion too and I don't make or sell them...........now what?

 

[John Barton]

Shawn,

So could a player use his full length shooting cue to make a jump shot? I prefer to kick personally, but I can jump with a full cue. I feel that takes alot more skill than some gimmicked jumper. JMO.

Southpaw

Yes, on average it takes more skill to jump with a full length cue than a jump cue but it that is the wrong way to look at it. It takes more skill to hammer a nail with a screwdriver but instead of a screwdriver I use a tool designed for that purpose.

I have just had an epiphany about this. So we want to jump balls, we like the jump shot, but some of us are upset because it seems too easy now. Why can't we see that by making it easier to perform the basic shot that we effectively raise the level of the game by giving a greater range of shots to a greater number of people?

With a good 8 years of experience selling jump cues these are my observations. I want to preface this by saying that I get deeply involved with what I am selling so that I know everything about the subject. For the jump cues I prepared intensely, learning how to jump with the jump cue, learning the difference between jumping with a full cue and using a jump cue, working out a routine to effectively show the merits of the cue, and lastly learning how to teach the jump shot with and without a jump cue.

Observations:

1. Jumping a ball with a 58" cue takes a particular stroke that is difficult to learn and nearly impossible for someone who is of short stature or has a physical impediment that hinders them from jacking up.

2. Some 58" cues "jump" better than others, which either hinders or helps the jump shot learning process.

3. No matter how well a 58" cue jumps the range of high percentage shots is still very limited.

4. No matter how well a 58" cue jumps the shot is still awkward and hard to control for the shooter.

5. People vary greatly and most do not have an innate understanding of the stroke required to jump, both with a 58" cue or a jump cue.

6. The jump cue facilitates the act of jumping balls and widens the range of effective shots.

7. The jump cue brings consistency and ease to a part of the game that was a struggle to an impossibility for most.

8. With a jump cue the player can comfortably focus on the shot at hand instead of fighting with a cue in a position that is awkward and hard to control.

9. Jump cues are consistent, they all work within almost the same range and therefore bring universal access to this area of the game to all players. (as opposed to 58" cues which don't offer universal access due to the widely differing "jumpability" of them)

10. The act of jumping balls with a jump stick is relatively easy compared to the act of doing it with a 58" cue. However to master this area of the game requires a lot of practice. With a wider range of shots comes the need to practice more to take full advantage of them.

In conclusion the jump cue is a democratic and fair addition to the game for an area of the game that existed well before modern jump cues. It takes the variables of cue construction out of the equation and allows greater access to those who are physically limited from performing the act of jumping a ball with a 58" cue.

 

[John Barton]

you couldn't be more wrong, it ABSOLUTELY can give your opponent an advantage since all the time a player may have put into developing their jump skills with a normal cue has now been nullified to a very large extent

Not at all. A player who has developed the skill to jump with a normal cue now has a huge advantage when using a jump cue.

and more often than not the players who are for jump cues tend to have little skill jumping with a normal cue

However the ones that do have skill at jumping with a full cue are that much more proficient with a jump cue.

look at it from this perspective, at what point does the equipment become too effective?

When the player is no longer the one controlling the instrument. In jump cues this is not the case. The player is in full control and you cannot simply substitute players and achieve the same results.

for example, they continue to develop golf clubs that drive the ball further and more accurately with less effort, and balls that stay airborne longer

when is enough enough?

When I say it is - buy more stuff! Just kidding. Golf and baseball are two sports which are limited to set playing fields - equipment which dramatically adds to the effective range of play could have the effect of changing the game to the point where the fields of play have to be altered. That is the consideration. OR if the equipment is so good then you keep the field size (for golf) and make the pars less. What good is a driver and ball that can go 400 yards if you have a 300 yard par 2? The golfer still has to develop a fine touch to control his ball no matter what equipment he is using.

Will this same argument occur as masse cues gain popularity? or tips that can draw the ball two table lengths with no stroke at all? I see bangers using x breakers at the local rooms whose break makes what you see at the world championships laughable, it's ridiculous imo

Yes, it will. I other parts of the world this is not even a debate. Player there welcome the addition of tools that help them to play a better game.

What an endorsement for X-Breaker. I haven't seen a significant rise in the level of controlled and successful break shots with the advent of break cues. I have seen a lot of what I call the "new broom effect" that is when people think a broom sweeps better because it's new. If you had a tip that made it possible to draw the ball two table lengths then imagine how much touch you would need to just draw the ball six inches. Yin and Yang.


the last piece required in the development of Billiard equipment is the chalkless tip, everything else is damn near perfect enough

Right, including jump cues which are pretty much perfect for the task they were designed for. To make the act of jumping easier and accessible to all.

 

[Franky]

Just because its easier to jump with a jump cue does not imply that its a good or fair addition to the game as a whole. In fact, that isn't even relevant.

Professional baseball players are not allowed to use metal bats. Metal bats play undeniably better, but they alter the play too drastically. I'm all for allowing jumping with your shooting stick though. That's just fine.

What about a pneumatically powered, computer controlled cue that imparts "spheroid seeking spin" to the cueball to ease getting out of safeties? Would that be too much? (just playin' devil's advocate here..) Or how about a cue with a plastic bag full of some blob like material in it. You could use a long but normal looking stroke and keep the tip in contact with the ball for a couple seconds to steer it around all the obstacles.

The point is...there is a line you shouldn't cross because it alters the spirit and history of the game too much. Eventually as players we'll just have to agree on where that line is.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

I am one of the "minority" that hates jump cues. I think it is a gimmick, and is a bought skill, not a learned skill. I am not against jump shots, provided they are played with a regulation cue, and that being either your playing cue or your break cue.

I think the rules of 9-Ball should be changed to reflect the addition of the jump cue into the world of pool. I appreciate a good safety. Unfortunately, you pretty much have to freeze someone to the ball now to not allow them to jump out of your hook. If you are making the cueball travel long distances, nothing is more frustrating than playing a great hook to within 3" of the blocker, and the guy goes to his bag and pogo sticks out of your well played safety. So, here's my proposed rule change:

1) Player is made to identify if he will or will not be using a jump cue for the match.
2) If you choose to play without the jump cue, then normal rules apply.
3) If you do choose to use shorty, foul rules are changed. The changes are: 3 consecutive fouls constitutes a loss of match, not loss of game. Also, the player choosing to not use the jump cue can declare "safety" before he shoots his shot. At the end of that shot, the jump cue cannot be used by the opponent. This way, if it's a fluke safety, the player can use the jumper without penalty. If the safety is declared, then no pogo.

Just my ramblings.

Two way shots are a beautiful part of 9-ball. Using these rules would take that out of the game. And you make it sound as if every time someone uses a jump cue, they make the ball and run out. That's not true. Most of the time they sell out anyways. When a player makes a jump shot and pockets the ball, it's a huge crowd pleaser. It's not an easy task, unless the ball is hanging in the hole. Learning how to jump is not difficult, but mastering the jump shot is very difficult and takes a long time. In fact, I can't think of a single player that has mastered the jump shot, because he/she would never miss if it was indeed mastered.

Lets not forget about some great players that like to push-out to jump shots. The break in itself has a huge luck factor, whether they get a shot afterwards or not. Using your logic, should the break just be eliminated from the game? People have break cues, and it's easy to learn how to break. Is using a break cue a gimmick also?

 

[John Barton]

Just because its easier to jump with a jump cue does not imply that its a good or fair addition to the game as a whole. In fact, that isn't even relevant.

It's entirely relevant. In fact it seems to be pretty much the entire foundation for those who do not "like" jump cues.

Professional baseball players are not allowed to use metal bats. Metal bats play undeniably better, but they alter the play too drastically. I'm all for allowing jumping with your shooting stick though. That's just fine.

How do metal bats play better? They allow for longer drives which is a problem for the size of the fields played on. That IS a drastic alteration of the game. A jump cue does not come with a need to change the playing field. What if my "shooting" stick is better suited for jumping balls than yours is? Should mine be banned and yours allowed? Do you think that all 58" cues play equally?

What about a pneumatically powered, computer controlled cue that imparts "spheroid seeking spin" to the cueball to ease getting out of safeties? Would that be too much? (just playin' devil's advocate here..)

You should read the rules then because this situation is already covered and is not allowed. What part of a jump cue works without the player providing the inertia and without the player being the control to decide on spin, speed, and trajectory?

Or how about a cue with a plastic bag full of some blob like material in it. You could use a long but normal looking stroke and keep the tip in contact with the ball for a couple seconds to steer it around all the obstacles.

Pretty fantastic - if it works then we have achieved a whole new level of play. Now we can enjoy the pros who "steer" the ball better than the rest of us. Because in this situation it is STILL the player doing the steering while the blob is inert until put in motion by the player. Would you conclude that the person who couldn't "steer" well had a defective blob or perhaps that maybe they didn't have the skill to use the blob tool effectively?

The point is...there is a line you shouldn't cross because it alters the spirit and history of the game too much. Eventually as players we'll just have to agree on where that line is.

And we aren't anywhere near that line with jump cues. A jump cues is merely a short cue with a hard tip. If anything it is harder to use than a regular cue because while it does indeed make the act of jumping easier it's construction makes it harder to accurately apply spin. I think the current rules take care of mechanical assisting devices well enough and they cover cue parameters adequately as well.

The "spirit and history" of the game is one of constant change and innovation which is why billiards has such a colorful and diverse history. Pie shafts, chalkless tips, interchangeable tips, mechanical aiming devices, and just about everything you can think of for pool has been thought of and patented 100 years ago. Don't believe me, check Google Patents and browse through them and you will see what I mean.

 

[smashmouth]

Right, including jump cues which are pretty much perfect for the task they were designed for. To make the act of jumping easier and accessible to all.

it's not supposed to be easy nor accessible

 

[Eric H.]

My wife can kick at balls well.
BVal

OUCH!


I played from 1990 - 2000 during that time I saw maybe one jump cue. I have about a year to spend overseas and I'm starting to get back into the game, everyone owns a Jump cue. I dont think I'll break down and buy one, I'll keep trying to jump on my playing cue. Its more impresive if you can pull it off.

 

[quitecoolguy]

I was a bit surprised at the thread...jump cues looked at as a bad thing..it would be like an old timer with a one piece cue with a screw on tip frowning at you when you pull out your 2 piece shon with a z shaft. Times change and advancements in the game happen. I can tell you since i got a varney break jump cue (AND DAMN CAN THAT THING JUMP)..and have practiced with it and learned what i can and cant do with it..people do say "Ohhh god" when i break it down..not because they dislike the jump cue, its because i have gotten surgical with that mother , well i gotten to where if i can see the ball and have at least a 2 to 3 inch gap im gona jump it and with accuracy. I have tried to make myself a well rounded player..i have kicked at balls for a long time..because i didnt know how to jump with a full cue..so i learned how to masse pretty damn well..So i can kick pretty well and can masse better than a average player..the jump is just another weapon added to my to make me a better player..i will give you an example..a couple of weekends ago at a local tournament at the Playing Field i was giving up the 8 ball and the breaks to a guy in the tournament when he shot me a safety..i was two games up and running out from everywhere, he tried to slow me down with a strong safety..3 inches behind a ball..the object ball (4ball) was about an inch away to the side of the nine ball which was a foot or two away from the corner pocket..the jump shot was about 4 feet away. I looked at him and told him ..im gona jump the cue ball kick off the 4 and cut the nine in the pocket. well sure as shit..snap..cue ball flies thru the air hit the side of the 4 i was aiming at cut the nine straight in the pocket for the win. He looks at me and just raises his hands..i look up and smile and said.."That was a hell of shot wasnt it!" Several people saw me snap that one off and kept asking me how did you learn to jump like that . I told them that a good friend and pool coach Bernie Kirby taught me how to sight the shot and arm and body placement..but the rest just came from practice..I will pull my jump cue out in a minute. I am realizing that i am not Mike Davis and i dont PLAY a high precentage of the balls i jump at. I hit a great deal of them but dont play. SO i have been learning to be a bit reserved and look for the kick or masse. I want to learn the Diamond system so bad but cant really narrow down what is the best dvd to buy. But make no mistake the jump cue is hear to stay..so as Kevin Varney says in his add on Varney Cues. "Play with a Varney or get beat by someone playing with one" ...better learn to jump or get beat by someone who has ..just my 2 cents

 

[crosseyedjoe]

I was a bit surprised at the thread...jump cues looked at as a bad thing..it would be like an old timer with a one piece cue with a screw on tip frowning at you when you pull out your 2 piece shon with a z shaft. Times change and advancements in the game happen. I can tell you since i got a varney break jump cue (AND DAMN CAN THAT THING JUMP)..and have practiced with it and learned what i can and cant do with it..people do say "Ohhh god" when i break it down..not because they dislike the jump cue, its because i have gotten surgical with that mother , well i gotten to where if i can see the ball and have at least a 2 to 3 inch gap im gona jump it and with accuracy. I have tried to make myself a well rounded player..i have kicked at balls for a long time..because i didnt know how to jump with a full cue..so i learned how to masse pretty damn well..So i can kick pretty well and can masse better than a average player..the jump is just another weapon added to my to make me a better player..i will give you an example..a couple of weekends ago at a local tournament at the Playing Field i was giving up the 8 ball and the breaks to a guy in the tournament when he shot me a safety..i was two games up and running out from everywhere, he tried to slow me down with a strong safety..3 inches behind a ball..the object ball (4ball) was about an inch away to the side of the nine ball which was a foot or two away from the corner pocket..the jump shot was about 4 feet away. I looked at him and told him ..im gona jump the cue ball kick off the 4 and cut the nine in the pocket. well sure as shit..snap..cue ball flies thru the air hit the side of the 4 i was aiming at cut the nine straight in the pocket for the win. He looks at me and just raises his hands..i look up and smile and said.."That was a hell of shot wasnt it!" Several people saw me snap that one off and kept asking me how did you learn to jump like that . I told them that a good friend and pool coach Bernie Kirby taught me how to sight the shot and arm and body placement..but the rest just came from practice..I will pull my jump cue out in a minute. I am realizing that i am not Mike Davis and i dont PLAY a high precentage of the balls i jump at. I hit a great deal of them but dont play. SO i have been learning to be a bit reserved and look for the kick or masse. I want to learn the Diamond system so bad but cant really narrow down what is the best dvd to buy. But make no mistake the jump cue is hear to stay..so as Kevin Varney says in his add on Varney Cues. "Play with a Varney or get beat by someone playing with one" ...better learn to jump or get beat by someone who has ..just my 2 cents

"Better learn to jump" that is the puzzle.

 

[John Barton]

it's not supposed to be easy nor accessible

Says who?

There was a time when a guy named "English" Jack Carr traveled the country dazzling people with his ability to make the cueball spin. So much so that sidespin came to be called "english". Up until that time sidepsin was not easy nor accessible to all until English Jack discovered that CHALK applied to a leather tip allowed for tremendous amounts of sidespin.

After that the ONLY limitation to ho MUCH spin could be applied to a cueball was pretty much the player's ability and not the equipment.

So with that invention sidespin became easy and accessible. Don't think so and think that you are a "purist" well then I will be more than happy to play anyone for any amount if they agree to play with an unchalked tip.

Fast forward a hundred years or so and we have a situation where jump shots are now pretty much a requirement under the rules. What happens? Players discover that a shaft can be used to make the ball jump easier and some players start making "jump" cues - now the jump shot is easier to do and more accessible - go forward another couple years and it's discovered that the shot is even easier with a super hard tip - now it's truly accessible to all.

Do you THINK that some bangers invented jump cues? No it was professionals who invented them - it's accomplished players who make them - do you think Gulyassy is a banger? He's a world beater. How about Pat Fleming, he plays pretty sporty himself. Or Sammy Jones, I don't think too many shortstops want a piece of him. This is something that PRO PLAYERS invented to make life EASIER for them. So yeah, it's supposed to be easy and accessible so that players aren't handicapped by their equipment and can focus on THE SHOT.

Somebody mentioned Bob Doss as an example of a great player who jumps with a full cue. Well boys and girls Bob Doss holds a patent for a jump rod.

http/www.google.com/patents?id=k0AiAAAAEBAJ&dq=bob+doss+jump+cue

I don't know if this is the same Bob Doss but I suspect it is. Now WHY would someone who is already great at jumping with a full cue seek to invent something that makes that task easier? Think about it.

 

[John Barton]

OUCH!


I played from 1990 - 2000 during that time I saw maybe one jump cue. I have about a year to spend overseas and I'm starting to get back into the game, everyone owns a Jump cue. I dont think I'll break down and buy one, I'll keep trying to jump on my playing cue. Its more impresive if you can pull it off.

That is because up until around 1998 jump cues were only made in small batches by few cuemakers. So there weren't that many around. Even the people doing production weren't doing that much. In my observation it wasn't until the Bunjee came out for $99 that jump cues really took off. It seemed to me that in the two years folowing the introduction of the Bunjee Jumper there were cues coming out of the woodwork right and left.

More domestic makers picked up on it. People that weren't really cuemakers started making just jump cues. The importers all brought out Bunjee copies and the race was on. Suddenly they were everywhere and a hot item.

It's not a question of morality to own one and know how to use it. It's a question of practicality under the current rules. I like to succeed when I play pool. Because the current rules impose such a high penalty for not contacting the ball I need every available legal option to not foul. Jump shots are legal and so it follows that jump cues are legal as well. Any person is free to handicap themselves by NOT using the tools that have been invented and which are proven to work. You need not use a jump cue, you don't have to use chalk, you can play with a K-Mart special wth a Ramin shaft and a soft plastic ferrule if you like. I am not one of those who prefers to handicap myself due to some misguided notion about the "spirit and history" of the game.

 

[Icon of Sin]

you couldn't be more wrong, it ABSOLUTELY can give your opponent an advantage since all the time a player may have put into developing their jump skills with a normal cue has now been nullified to a very large extent

and more often than not the players who are for jump cues tend to have little skill jumping with a normal cue

look at it from this perspective, at what point does the equipment become too effective?

for example, they continue to develop golf clubs that drive the ball further and more accurately with less effort, and balls that stay airborne longer

when is enough enough?

Will this same argument occur as masse cues gain popularity? or tips that can draw the ball two table lengths with no stroke at all? I see bangers using x breakers at the local rooms whose break makes what you see at the world championships laughable, it's ridiculous imo


the last piece required in the development of Billiard equipment is the chalkless tip, everything else is damn near perfect enough

If you worked on your jump shot to where you could do it with just your playing cue and have not even considered a jump cue making it more effective, then that is your problem, not the opponents. You are not reading the above post and telling someone who is obviously right, they are wrong.

If you are allowed to use a jump cue, then so is your opponent. It doesn't matter how much time you put into the game learning to jump with a normal cue. I coudlnt give a damn. If I was playing a match and someone played an easily jumpable safety and when I pulled my jump cue out they said I cant use it because they took the time to learn it with a full cue i would tell them to go to hell and jump it anyway.

Like I said above, jump cues are the norm now. Like it or not. So jump on the train or go kicking, don't whine about it. You guys are starting to sound like DCP. If you play a jumpable safety and don't take it into consideration that your opponent may have a jump cue to pull out, then your safety deserves to be jumped.

What's next? No draw shots because your opponent hasn't learned them yet. You are not allowed to break and run because your opponent hasn't had a break and run yet. LOL...

Heath<-----has found that using a jump cue helped him learn to succesfully jump balls with a his playing cue as well.

Oh and I love this part:

I see bangers using x breakers at the local rooms whose break makes what you see at the world championships laughable, it's ridiculous imo

Sure you do. Ladies and gentleman, in the center ring... the Master of Exaggeration!!!

 

[cuetechasaurus]

I'll say it again- Break cues should be gimmick sticks too, using your logic. Alot of them allow you to break the balls harder than normal cues. Are break cues gimmick sticks? It's easy to learn how to break better with one of those top-of-the-line break cues. The argument about jump cues is the same thing.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Somebody mentioned Bob Doss as an example of a great player who jumps with a full cue. Well boys and girls Bob Doss holds a patent for a jump rod.

http/www.google.com/patents?id=k0AiAAAAEBAJ&dq=bob+doss+jump+cue

I don't know if this is the same Bob Doss but I suspect it is. Now WHY would someone who is already great at jumping with a full cue seek to invent something that makes that task easier? Think about it.

Perhaps to make money? Perhaps it's because the jump with the full cue is a technique/skill that only elite players can master? Jump rods can make any clown jump that has $99. That's my thinking, and just my opinion. He also made the Doss jump/play cue, which was a full length cue that had a weighted core. You removed the core that the cue, although still 58" long, was super light to jump.

Anyone on this group have Doss' video on jumping? I've wanted to get my hands on this for awhile.

 

[Island Drive]

I am one of the "minority" that hates jump cues. I think it is a gimmick, and is a bought skill, not a learned skill. I am not against jump shots, provided they are played with a regulation cue, and that being either your playing cue or your break cue.

I think the rules of 9-Ball should be changed to reflect the addition of the jump cue into the world of pool. I appreciate a good safety. Unfortunately, you pretty much have to freeze someone to the ball now to not allow them to jump out of your hook. If you are making the cueball travel long distances, nothing is more frustrating than playing a great hook to within 3" of the blocker, and the guy goes to his bag and pogo sticks out of your well played safety. So, here's my proposed rule change:

1) Player is made to identify if he will or will not be using a jump cue for the match.
2) If you choose to play without the jump cue, then normal rules apply.
3) If you do choose to use shorty, foul rules are changed. The changes are: 3 consecutive fouls constitutes a loss of match, not loss of game. Also, the player choosing to not use the jump cue can declare "safety" before he shoots his shot. At the end of that shot, the jump cue cannot be used by the opponent. This way, if it's a fluke safety, the player can use the jumper without penalty. If the safety is declared, then no pogo.

Just my ramblings.

They don't allow it in Snooker, that speaks loudly enough for me...

 

[Icon of Sin]

Perhaps it's because the jump with the full cue is a technique/skill that only elite players can master?

WOW, that is WAAAAAAAAAYYYY off base. I'm only an APA 7 and probably a B player and I can jump balls with a full cue. I have seen people that play a few balls behind me do it as well. Its definately not a skill for the "elite player"

Jump cues just make it easier.