The Rise and Fall of Professional Bowling

bar table hate

Dave Nelson said:
The bar table and the juke box are two of pool's greatest enemies. There are others.

Dave Nelson
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I'd say that the introduction and marketing of bar tables beginning in the '60s was a primary reason for the upswing in pool in the '70s-'90s. Currently there are some half a million people playing in pool leagues. Thanks to bar tables.

And you could not have national amateur events with thousands of entrants without bar tables. And people that don't have room in their homes for a 9-footer would be out of luck.

If you hate them, that's your right. But let's be realistic about their place in pool.
 
bowling in the '50s

victorl said:
ctyhntr said:
but, but, we have The Hustler, Color of Money, Poolhall Junkies, and 9-ball the Movie, and they only have Kingpin.

Don't forget the "Hustler of Money"!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l6JEdrH4INw
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Bowling was on national television every week in the 1950s, and tournament and league results were published in daily newspapers. Pool has never enjoyed anything like that.

The Hustler may have scared as many people away from pool as were attracted to it.
The Color of Money came out after the introduction of pool leagues, which by that time had the VNEA, BCA, NPBA and almost countless non-affiliated leagues.
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FairladyZ said:
Professional Bowling still exists?

I could make a strike once in a while in bowling.....just too bad it usually wasn't in my lane!
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The decline in bowling was due to economics. At one time there were bowling alleys everywhere. No matter where you worked is was a good bet they had a bowling team and you bowled on it. It was ingrained in our culture, everyone bowled. As bowling alleys began to close naturally the game began to disappear with them.

There was a time when hanging in a bowling alley was common. They had bowling, pool rooms, restaurants, a bar, a nursery to park the kids, a pro shop run by a real pro. You never had to leave the place they had everything. We used to have to get on a waiting list to bowl in a 54 lane house. The big change came when the cost of bowling didn't keep up with everything else.

In the 1960's we paid like $.50 a game to bowl. In the 1990's you paid like $1.25 a game. Mean time the cost to operate the place had skyrocketed. What had happened was, much like pool there is a limit as to what it is worth to the average person. Years ago I used to drive to a pool room in the next town to take advantage of a $5.00 all day price. Now 30 years later I can still play all day for $5.00.

A bowling alley took up a piece of real estate the size of a small shopping center. Where I used to bowl there is a 8 story office building standing today. There was no way to justify a bowling alley sitting on a $5,000,000.00 worth of property selling bowling games at at maybe $3.50 a game. There is only so much you can charge to bowl a game. I think the last time I bowled it was $20 for 2 from 7 to 11 pm. all the games you could get in. How the heck can you make any money like that. Bowling has been on life support for a long time.
 
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those bowlers sure did have a good hey day and good payday for a while, good for them.......now good riddance
 
numbers

macguy said:
The decline in bowling was due to economics. At one time there were bowling alleys everywhere. No matter where you worked is was a good bet they had a bowling team and you bowled on it. It was ingrained in our culture, everyone bowled. As bowling alleys began to close naturally the game began to disappear with them.

There was a time when hanging in a bowling alley was common. They had bowling, pool rooms, restaurants, a bar, a nursery to park the kids, a pro shop run by a real pro. You never had to leave the place they had everything. We used to have to get on a waiting list to bowl in a 54 lane house. The big change came when the cost of bowling didn't keep up with everything else.

In the 1960's we paid like $.50 a game to bowl. In the 1990's you paid like $1.25 a game. Mean time the cost to operate the place had skyrocketed. What had happened was, much like pool there is a limit as to what it is worth to the average person. Years ago I used to drive to a pool room in the next town to take advantage of a $5.00 all day price. Now 30 years later I can still play all day for $5.00.

A bowling alley took up a piece of real estate the size of a small shopping center. Where I used to bowl there is a 8 story office building standing today. There was no way to justify a bowling alley sitting on a $5,000,000.00 worth of property selling bowling games at at maybe $3.50 a game. There is only so much you can charge to bowl a game. I think the last time I bowled it was $20 for 2 from 7 to 11 pm. all the games you could get in. How the heck can you make any money like that. Bowling has been on life support for a long time.
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I began bowling before there were electric, let alone automatic pinsetters. My second job at age 12 was setting pins by hand. Bowlers paid 25 cents a game, and the pinsetters got 10 cents of that. The "pinboys" could bowl for free if you got another pinboy to set for you...that's how many of the pros got their starts!

The profit in bowling was not in what you paid per game. Just like with pool, the bowling lanes served beer and in some states, booze. They also served food beginning in the late '50s. The "business model" said that the secret was having league bowling four or five nights a week, - guaranteed income to pay the overhead. The profit was in alcohol, soft drinks and then food. Much the same as pool since the 1980s.

I bowled tournament at an 80 lane center, Lemon Grove Bowlero, in San Diego county, in 1960.

I got to bowl with the legendary Andy Varipapa in 1961, and in a pro-am with Dick Weber in 1967. I was carrying a league average of 227 at the time, so we were considered among the favorites, but we finished in the middle of the prize list.

I had become a Certified Bowling Instructor in 1959...six years before I gave my first pool lessons as summer manager of a "Mickey Mantle Billiard Center".
 
Donny Lutz said:
I began bowling before there were electric, let alone automatic pinsetters. My second job at age 12 was setting pins by hand. Bowlers paid 25 cents a game, and the pinsetters got 10 cents of that. The "pinboys" could bowl for free if you got another pinboy to set for you...that's how many of the pros got their starts!

The profit in bowling was not in what you paid per game. Just like with pool, the bowling lanes served beer and in some states, booze. They also served food beginning in the late '50s. The "business model" said that the secret was having league bowling four or five nights a week, - guaranteed income to pay the overhead. The profit was in alcohol, soft drinks and then food. Much the same as pool since the 1980s.

I bowled tournament at an 80 lane center, Lemon Grove Bowlero, in San Diego county, in 1960.

I got to bowl with the legendary Andy Varipapa in 1961, and in a pro-am with Dick Weber in 1967. I was carrying a league average of 227 at the time, so we were considered among the favorites, but we finished in the middle of the prize list.

I had become a Certified Bowling Instructor in 1959...six years before I gave my first pool lessons as summer manager of a "Mickey Mantle Billiard Center".
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I was never much of a bowler but hung around a bowling alley for the pool room. I remember back in the 70's talking with the owner and he told be when all was said and done about the only profit he saw was what was taken in by the bar. Every thing else covered the nut. This was 40 years ago.

They needed every one of those sources of income to keep the doors open. The bottom line was, it takes just too big a building needed to be in a decent location for a bowling alley. I was told and you would know better then me, every time a bowling center closed there was not one opening to replace it anywhere. There are just fewer and fewer lanes in this country.

Seemingly at some point the sport will just disappear. It is not like a pool where you can play at home or in a club, in a bar, at the rec center in your condo or one of the small pool rooms that still continue to open. A bowling alley was a complicated expensive, in the multi millions today, deal to run. I think they have just been priced out of business. I don't actually know anyone who bowls in my little circle of friends, no one. 40 years ago it would have been hard to find someone who didn't bowl. My 70 year old grandmother used to bowl on a morning league.
 
macguy said:
The decline in bowling was due to economics. At one time there were bowling alleys everywhere.
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Economics played a large role in bowling's demise but short oil made me quit cold turkey about 15 years ago. Spent years learning how to crank the ball and didn't want to spend the time in buying equipment, ball weighting and fighting the oil pattern. I still have 15 balls in the basement.

In NE Ohio where I grew up, the bowling alleys also had pool halls in them. When the alleys closed (3), the area lost at least 50 tables in decent environments. Now there is only one pool hall in that area with about 10 tables and it is a pretty rough room. They were using a cloth on their tables which was Teflon back and looked weird. Never seen anything like it. I asked why and the manager indicated because a lot of beer got spilled on the tables. What a waste of good beer. :D
 
MitchAlsup said:
$5 per day over 2 years buys a solid pool table for your home
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With maybe 40% of the population renting having their own table may not be an option. And a large percent of the rest not having any place they could put a table if they wanted to, you have a high percent of the people who have to play at public places if they want to play pooI.

I have always had a table in the house since I was a kid an owned a couple of pool rooms so having a place to play was not a problem. I did like to go over there on Saturdays where they had the all day special because the special drew players. We played ring games and matched up and so on. I was not really there for the cheap price, I was just making a point in my other post. It is true, you can still play in many places all day today for $5.00 just like 30 years ago.
 
Our most popular and most well-known and widely played form of bowling in North America is the ten-pin version. This kind of bowling method, in both amateur and professional capacities is a wonderful game.
 
ssbn610g said:
Economics played a large role in bowling's demise but short oil made me quit cold turkey about 15 years ago. Spent years learning how to crank the ball and didn't want to spend the time in buying equipment, ball weighting and fighting the oil pattern. I still have 15 balls in the basement.

In NE Ohio where I grew up, the bowling alleys also had pool halls in them. When the alleys closed (3), the area lost at least 50 tables in decent environments. Now there is only one pool hall in that area with about 10 tables and it is a pretty rough room. They were using a cloth on their tables which was Teflon back and looked weird. Never seen anything like it. I asked why and the manager indicated because a lot of beer got spilled on the tables. What a waste of good beer. :D
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That natural partnership between pool and bowling was great for pool. The first time I ever even saw pool in person was at a bowling alley. I loved it and would go in and watch the men play when we were there. Not long after that my dad got us a table. I was maybe 7 or 8 years old. I would bet a lot of older players first discovered pool at a bowling alley.

They certainly would not have been in a pool room in those days. In fact where I grew up it was against the law for anyone under the age of 21 to be in a pool room with or without alcohol. Years later I was partly instrumental in getting the law changed. We went all the way to the state supreme court. We won partially because bowling alleys had an special exemption to the law.

The law was written to discriminate soley against pool rooms. This was in fact common, you will find even today laws on the books in many places to keep pool roms from being able to open. Often they are unreasonable parking requirments or hours of opperation, can't be open on Sunday and so forth. They tried to use phoney laws to kill off pool rooms. Tell you the truth, we are lucky there still is pool.
 
smashmouth said:
those bowlers sure did have a good hey day and good payday for a while, good for them.......now good riddance
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Unfortunately along with the closing of bowling alleys went the pool rooms that they also had. Tens of thousands of public tables that may people were first introduced to the game are now gone. If it was not for the marriage of bowling and pool all those years ago,I doubt we would be here posting on this forum today.
Be careful what you wish for.
 
macguy said:
The decline in bowling was due to economics. At one time there were bowling alleys everywhere. No matter where you worked is was a good bet they had a bowling team and you bowled on it. It was ingrained in our culture, everyone bowled. As bowling alleys began to close naturally the game began to disappear with them.

There was a time when hanging in a bowling alley was common. They had bowling, pool rooms, restaurants, a bar, a nursery to park the kids, a pro shop run by a real pro. You never had to leave the place they had everything. We used to have to get on a waiting list to bowl in a 54 lane house. The big change came when the cost of bowling didn't keep up with everything else.

In the 1960's we paid like $.50 a game to bowl. In the 1990's you paid like $1.25 a game. Mean time the cost to operate the place had skyrocketed. What had happened was, much like pool there is a limit as to what it is worth to the average person. Years ago I used to drive to a pool room in the next town to take advantage of a $5.00 all day price. Now 30 years later I can still play all day for $5.00.

A bowling alley took up a piece of real estate the size of a small shopping center. Where I used to bowl there is a 8 story office building standing today. There was no way to justify a bowling alley sitting on a $5,000,000.00 worth of property selling bowling games at at maybe $3.50 a game. There is only so much you can charge to bowl a game. I think the last time I bowled it was $20 for 2 from 7 to 11 pm. all the games you could get in. How the heck can you make any money like that. Bowling has been on life support for a long time.
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I believe this is a very accurate analysis..... I also believe it applies to pool as well, as you did mention. Blame it on the game consoles and facebook.....nobody wants to go out and be social anymore....
 
I was reminded of this thread reading a recent AMA (ask me anything) on reddit
with the top ranked bowler in the world. -->

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/22gqby/iama_professional_bowler_ranked_1_in_the_world_i/

He talks about the industry, their relationship with ESPN, the high cost of producing bowling events on TV,
how to get sponsors, the amount of practice needed to reach the top, and how fans can help spread
the sport. It seemed like some of it might apply to pool.

Very nice and articulate guy, it'd be nice if a top ranked pool players would hop on here
and just answer random questions for an hour or three.

Interesting that this guy uses a very unorthodox technique (two hands), imagine if the best pool player
shot with a knuckle bridge or cupped the butt of the cue. It's that unusual in the bowling world.

Video of his technique: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyq9MKgj9wE
Video of him handling some crazy splits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkR12W4VQ6A
 
In the 1960's we paid like $.50 a game to bowl. In the 1990's you paid like $1.25 a game. Mean time the cost to operate the place had skyrocketed. What had happened was, much like pool there is a limit as to what it is worth to the average person. Years ago I used to drive to a pool room in the next town to take advantage of a $5.00 all day price. Now 30 years later I can still play all day for $5.00.

A bowling alley took up a piece of real estate the size of a small shopping center. Where I used to bowl there is a 8 story office building standing today. There was no way to justify a bowling alley sitting on a $5,000,000.00 worth of property selling bowling games at at maybe $3.50 a game. There is only so much you can charge to bowl a game. I think the last time I bowled it was $20 for 2 from 7 to 11 pm. all the games you could get in. How the heck can you make any money like that. Bowling has been on life support for a long time.
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This. I used to bowl league from the mid 80's to the 90's. Costs kept going up, so much so, it was cheaper to just come in off the street and play a few games.

Besides, why play a game with a set-in-stone goal? Once you get a 300...........then what? Pool/billiards is ALWAYS different. (something I read in one of Byrne's books)
 
wineslob said:
This. I used to bowl league from the mid 80's to the 90's. Costs kept going up, so much so, it was cheaper to just come in off the street and play a few games.

Besides, why play a game with a set-in-stone goal? Once you get a 300...........then what? Pool/billiards is ALWAYS different. (something I read in one of Byrne's books)
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Many of the bar leagues are probably the same. You go there, play just a few games, have to travel all over the place. There are always some kind of disputes about one thing or another. Every place is different and some are even dumps. On top of all that, you have to pay for the privilege. I sometimes wonder why after one season on a league anyone even play a second.
 
I miss Chris Schenkel :sorry:

both of my parents were VERY avid bowlers (dad carrying 200+ average and mom not too far behind), and my mom worked in a bowling alley for years. They had me in junior leagues from what seems like before I could walk. I enjoyed it a great deal for the competition of it (as I do for any other sport/game I've ever played), but never really had a passion for it....as mentioned above, I can still hear Chris Schenkel's voice, since it was a weekly tradition to have the PBA on the tube.

IMO, many professional sports are unwatchable; but I think it's just me, cuz I'd much rather play than watch....One of my favorite sporting events is being played this week, and I'll probably watch highlights daily, and only really watch the end on Sunday afternoon!! If only Mr. Schenkel had done the Masters as well....perfection. ;) :thumbup:
 
I found it interesting that, like pool, bowling is another sport that looks much easier
than it actually is. I had no idea about the different oil patterns and such.
They gotta adjust for it with every tournament.

Belmo says their US Open pattern is the hardest to adapt.
 
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