The terrible choice of whether to play league or not, must decide by next week

[JamisonNeu]

If that's true, then you have access to all their financials, just like anyone else would. Why not do the research.
But again, I wonder what difference it makes to you. Do you play in the APA? And if you do, does it matter what their profit margins are?
When you buy a television, do you have to know the profit margins of Best Buy, or Sony? Or do you just make a decision if whether or not the television on the shelf is worth what they are asking?

Steve

Yes, I do make my buying decisions based on what type of company or corporation I think I am dealing with.

If I didn't then I could be held responsible for all kinds of horrible things...Like slavery If I buy or sell a product made by a slave then I am a slave owner...In a perfect world knowingly buying a good produced by a slave would be punishable by death. If you are willing to use a slave then you are willing to be a slave...

If I think a company is making too much money then I go elsewhere...Not too much money..."too much profit"...Hell yes, I factor this in...

Too much profit = They are over charging.

I wont purchase products from anyone that is greedy anymore because they obviously do not consider my wallet in their prices...So why should I consider their bank account when I open my wallet??

My question is not loaded...I just wanted to know about who/what we were talking about???

If I wanted to say anything rude it would be obvious...I thought I had made that perfectly clear over the years???

 

[JamisonNeu]

Jamison,

You're not quite correct here. The APA is a corporation (American Poolplayers Association, Inc., registered in the state of Missouri). As a corporation, they are required to file Annual Reports, but the only information disclosed in these reports is a roster of officers and directors of the corporation. From the limited amount of research I just did, the APA appears to be a privately held corporation, not a publicly traded one. Therefore they don't fall under the purview of the SEC, and are not required to publicly disclose their financial statements. The requirement to furnish audited financial statements to the public is an investor protection issue for companies whose stock is traded on public exchanges (NYSE, NASDAQ, etc), and does not apply to privately owned companies. Making a privately held company's financials available to the general public would be akin to making an individual's tax return publicly available. So it appears that the only way to find out how much money the APA makes would be to buy them, or bribe an officer of the corporation (which I do not recommend trying).

Hope I saved someone some time trying to find the APA's income statement online.

Johnny

I thought it was publicly traded...thx

 

[justadub]

Basically you wanted to complain that the folks who own/run APA make too much money, right?

You'd like to make the point that all of us who play APA are all sheep, blindly opening our wallets to them, as they swindle us, one and all?

APA is successful. The folks running it undoubtedly make a lot of money. They most likely didn't when they started this venture those many years ago. The same applies to each individual LO. They didn't get a license to print money when they purchased their territories, they had to develop them to make it work.

I pay my $8 a week to play, and have no problem with them making a bundle. I get a good value for my $8, that's all that matters. If I didn't get that value, I wouldn't play. Nor would most anyone else. Therefore it really doesn't matter how much money the folks running APA make. (Except, of course, to those who don't like APA. To them it matters a lot.)

Like I always say, if you can do it better and cheaper, why haven't you done it?

 

[JamisonNeu]

Basically you wanted to complain that the folks who own/run APA make too much money, right?

You'd like to make the point that all of us who play APA are all sheep, blindly opening our wallets to them, as they swindle us, one and all?

APA is successful. The folks running it undoubtedly make a lot of money. They most likely didn't when they started this venture those many years ago. The same applies to each individual LO. They didn't get a license to print money when they purchased their territories, they had to develop them to make it work.

I pay my $8 a week to play, and have no problem with them making a bundle. I get a good value for my $8, that's all that matters. If I didn't get that value, I wouldn't play. Nor would most anyone else. Therefore it really doesn't matter how much money the folks running APA make. (Except, of course, to those who don't like APA. To them it matters a lot.)

Like I always say, if you can do it better and cheaper, why haven't you done it?

No if I wanted to say that I would have. Just wondering how much they made. I do not write between the lines either, I think I have made that pretty clear on this forum.

Just wanted to know more about it. If I didn't like the APA I would say it out loud...Why not???

I just don't understand how you think me asking how much they made means anything bad...

People in pool asked me all the time.. As a matter of fact it may have been one of the top 10 most asked question when I was doing shows at the trade events. "How much money do you make?"

But, oh no ask the guy at the top, and what happens?

 

[LeagueGuy]

Again I was just asking for a number. But now that you mention it.

What could be a reason anyone would not show their books to a customer??? It's not like I can't do the math and tell myself...lol

The math is quite simple.

They have approx 250,000 members. Memberships are $25. That is 6.25 million.
I am guessing they have about 30 or so staff (maybe more - I am basing this on previous conversations with my L.O). At an average salary of $50,000 (which would include both executives and clerical, benefits and other stuff) that makes 1.5 millon.

They add approx 1 million to their annual championships as well as pay the staff to fly their and stay there for 2 weeks in summer and 1 weeks in April as well as other tournament costs. I would ball park this at 350,000.

That leaves about 3 million before other operating expenses, Rent, computers, supplies, sponsorships, etc.

I would guess the APA makes 1.5 million per year in profit plus whatever they make in frachise fees as well (no idea about that)

I could be way off but that is just my guess.



Leagueguy

 

[JamisonNeu]

250K players a week x 8 = 2 million a week x 52 that is 100 million a year? Am I adding a 0 somewhere?

And that is only if those 250 K only play one time a week.

 

[justadub]

250K players a week x 8 = 2 million a week x 52 that is 100 million a year? Am I adding a 0 somewhere?

And that is only if those 250 K only play one time a week.

Assuming everything else in your theory is correct, you need to back it off some. There may be 250K players, but only 5 out of 8 per team play each week. And not everyone that is registered for the year plays every session.

Using your formula it will still be a big number.

 

[LeagueGuy]

250K players a week x 8 = 2 million a week x 52 that is 100 million a year? Am I adding a 0 somewhere?

And that is only if those 250 K only play one time a week.

That money goes to the indiviual L.O. not the APA. It is impossible to know how every L.O. spends that money.

I can tell you what i know about my area.

We have about 70 teams this session (about 55 the last 2 sessions)
Based on math, that equals approximately 2700 paid team weeks per year (based on 15 week sessions). we pay 10 per player or 50 per team. So my L.O. takes in approx 135,000 per year assuming no byes, no forfeits and no teams drop out. My guess is actually closer to 125,000
In our area, we send approx 54 players to Vegas. 4 teams of 8, 2 masters teams of 4, 4 doubles teams and 1 other team in a year end incentive tourny. Each player gets flight, accomodation and a little bit extra spening money. We also have 4 cash tournaments per year 3 teams 1 singles paying a little over 22,000. Based on $750 per person for travel, that is over $63,000 total. Our L.O. also pays our entry in to the Vegas touny and also provides trophies and pins probably a bout another 7,000 or 8,000 (no patches anymore as people threw them away). My guess is that our L.O pays back about 75,000 to the players in one form or another.

That leaves them 50,000 to pay all of their expenses. I would guess my L.O. takes in 35,000 - 40,000 a year but I really don't know. They run a geat league and if they make a living at it good for them.

There are hundreds of L.O. accros the US. It is impossible to figure out how much each area makes without knowing what they pay back and what business expenses are.

Leagueguy