They give *you* lessons when you beat them?

Billy_Bob

Billy_Bob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Anyone ever play other players who never say a thing to you so long as you are losing every game, then when you improve and some day start winning games against them, they give you "lessons" on how to do this, that, and the other thing?

I've had this happen with some fairly good players. They don't say a word so long as I am losing. But over time my game improves. Then one day I start winning games when playing them. And THEN they start giving me lessons on how to shoot, tell me when I'm about to shoot that I should do something different, etc.

Then my game goes downhill and I start losing (If I follow their advice). And then they look pleased with themselves! (When I am again losing.)

I suspect they are doing this consciously or unconsciously in an attempt to shark me and make me play worse so they can win.

However what they may or may not know is that I am learning more from their bad advice and they are helping me in the long run (I could care less if I win right now today, like to experiment, etc.)

For example I recently learned when playing 8-ball to clear away the balls from the center of the table first. Well I got ball in hand last night (8-ball) and placed the cue ball in front of a ball which was on the rail near a side pocket, and was going to shoot it into the corner. Then my opponent "advises me bad choice" and tells me to start my run with another ball. (No balls were blocked, all other balls were closer to corner pockets.) So then I had trouble getting on that ball I wanted to shoot in first. So I learned that with balls closer to the corner pockets, you have more leeway. Leaving position for these shots is not as critical. However with balls closer to the center of the table (or at least this ball), there is quite a bit of area on the table where making the ball becomes quite difficult - thus shoot this ball first if you can.

So do some players do this intentionally (give lessons) intending to get you to play worse?
 
i normally dont give any advice whatsoever when i play unless the shooter specifically asks me, or comments on how bad they shoot and how good i shoot and talk about wanting to learn and get better, then I might throw in some advice time to time. Ive shot against people who just shoot so badly I wouldnt ever giv ethem advice because i wouldnt know where to begin. Maybe thats your case, you shot bad before, but now youre shooting well and showing promise and theyre trying to help. Or like you said maybe theyre trying to shark you out......i guess it depends on the stakes, if its low stakes games id say it was them trying to help.
 
Billy_Bob said:
Anyone ever play other players who never say a thing to you so long as you are losing every game, then when you improve and some day start winning games against them, they give you "lessons" on how to do this, that, and the other thing?

I've had this happen with some fairly good players. They don't say a word so long as I am losing. But over time my game improves. Then one day I start winning games when playing them. And THEN they start giving me lessons on how to shoot, tell me when I'm about to shoot that I should do something different, etc.

Then my game goes downhill and I start losing (If I follow their advice). And then they look pleased with themselves! (When I am again losing.)

I suspect they are doing this consciously or unconsciously in an attempt to shark me and make me play worse so they can win.

However what they may or may not know is that I am learning more from their bad advice and they are helping me in the long run (I could care less if I win right now today, like to experiment, etc.)

For example I recently learned when playing 8-ball to clear away the balls from the center of the table first. Well I got ball in hand last night (8-ball) and placed the cue ball in front of a ball which was on the rail near a side pocket, and was going to shoot it into the corner. Then my opponent "advises me bad choice" and tells me to start my run with another ball. (No balls were blocked, all other balls were closer to corner pockets.) So then I had trouble getting on that ball I wanted to shoot in first. So I learned that with balls closer to the corner pockets, you have more leeway. Leaving position for these shots is not as critical. However with balls closer to the center of the table (or at least this ball), there is quite a bit of area on the table where making the ball becomes quite difficult - thus shoot this ball first if you can.

So do some players do this intentionally (give lessons) intending to get you to play worse?
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i think this is a great comment. my take on it is many times if you are getting advice it could be coming from someone who just wants to feel or prove to themself they are better than you. their mind tells them, if i give him tips, that means im better than him, maybe he will realize that and start losing again.
 
they're sharking

Hi Billybob, like Scott and Enzo said, they are trying to remind you that they are better than you. It's a ploy to undermine your confidence and therefore sharking.

I absolutely hate it when I get unsolicited advice when I'm playing pool or golfing. When I'm playing pool, I thank them for thier advice, then make a point of NOT doing what they say.:rolleyes: and hopefully trouncing them in the process.

:D
 
A very well known shark move is to say something that gets the other player to consciously think about something they were already doing well subconsciously. For instance, after you opponent makes a good shot, say innocently "do you always grip your cue so loosely?" The goal is that they'll distract themselves by thinking about their grip during the next few shots. The advice you're referring to sounds suspiciously like this shark.

-Andrew
 
Xyz Pdq

Andrew Manning said:
For instance, after you opponent makes a good shot, say innocently "do you always grip your cue so loosely?"
Click to expand...

This one works well too...

As they're shooting, "Do you always leave your fly down?"

Pay up then zip up sucker.
<jk>
 
I've had the opposite happen as well; someone asks for advice on some matter during a game, and after giving some pointers I shoot like a drunk blind man.
 
Of Course. Welcome to the real world of pool. LOL

Free advice is worth every penny you paid for it.

Now you know why you must take lessons to get better.

I personally like telling a person, "You jumped up on that shot". Or, the old standby, "you hit that one way too hard" or "this table sure is fast".

Sounds innocent, but they end up thinking about that during the whole match.

I have found that very, very few people will actually try and help someone. After all, if they help you too much then you will beat them and they sure don't want that to happen.

Jake
 
Yes, advice can be a major shark move BUT I can say from my own experience that I usually have no interest in giving advice to players I know who I can beat easily, unless they ask for it. This is because, to me, if they know I can beat them easily and still don't have the sense to ask why or what they can do to improve they don't deserve any advice I may be able to give them.
Conversley if a player improves notably to the point when they can win games against me they become a much more intesting player from my point of view, as they are obviously making a conscious effort to improve their game.
 
AuntyDan said:
Yes, advice can be a major shark move BUT I can say from my own experience that I usually have no interest in giving advice to players I know who I can beat easily, unless they ask for it. This is because, to me, if they know I can beat them easily and still don't have the sense to ask why or what they can do to improve they don't deserve any advice I may be able to give them.
Conversley if a player improves notably to the point when they can win games against me they become a much more intesting player from my point of view, as they are obviously making a conscious effort to improve their game.
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AuntyDan, that's the way it happens to me. I'm a decent player, but I play a lot at my college's pool hall. I play so many casual players that I don't say anything, but if I notice someone is activiely trying to get better I might give them some advice, or they might ask me because I'm one of the more friendly and personable "regulars". If the person is at all close to my skill level I just shut up and don't talk about pool related things, just make small chit chat or something.
 
Andrew Manning said:
A very well known shark move is to say something that gets the other player to consciously think about something they were already doing well subconsciously. For instance, after you opponent makes a good shot, say innocently "do you always grip your cue so loosely?" The goal is that they'll distract themselves by thinking about their grip during the next few shots. The advice you're referring to sounds suspiciously like this shark.

-Andrew
Click to expand...

I was gambling once with a guy, giving up weight, and at one point he asked me, "how many times do you stroke the cue before you pull the trigger?"

It was so blatently obvious what he was trying to do that I just sort of laughed it off. After rifling the very next ball in, I looked at him and said, "about 3 or 4", then proceeded to win the money. Unfortunately, knowing the person I was playing, we were probably playing cheap and the story doesn't have the same impact it would if we were betting something worthwhile. :)
 
scottycoyote said:
i normally dont give any advice whatsoever when i play unless the shooter specifically asks me, or comments on how bad they shoot and how good i shoot and talk about wanting to learn and get better, then I might throw in some advice time to time. Ive shot against people who just shoot so badly I wouldnt ever giv ethem advice because i wouldnt know where to begin. Maybe thats your case, you shot bad before, but now youre shooting well and showing promise and theyre trying to help. Or like you said maybe theyre trying to shark you out......i guess it depends on the stakes, if its low stakes games id say it was them trying to help.
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That's what I thought.

Heck, if your beating me, you must be looking to improve.
 
Can't realy say if this ever happened to me or not. I never really took notice. However, one thing I do hate is when someone who is clearly inferior catches you on a bad day and when he/she beats you, they give you lessons or advice.

I remember playing in my first tournament. I played a kid who normally I wold be giving weight to. On this day, however, I couldn't hit a rail with ball in hand! And this kid looks at me when its all over and says (with a cokcy look on his face) "You shoot alright. You just need to straighten out your stroke and pick up the intensity a little!"

A few weeks later, we met up in the second round of another tournament. I beat him 7-0 and sent him to the one loss side. When it was over, I looked at him and said "How was that? Good enough?"
 
They may be sharking or may be trying to help, hard to say, but... when someone tries to help, make sure they know what they're talking about. I've heard better players "helping" someone and they honestly thought they were helping, by telling them something that was completely wrong. To that player, they thought they were conveying good info, but they just didn't know what they were talking about. One prime example... A solid B player in a local room telling a C player, "You'll get a lot more draw if you jack up the back of your cue about six inches then pop the cue at the cue ball". He was honestly trying to help this guy, but he was just plain wrong in what he was telling him.

Take advice lightly unless it's from someone whose qualified to give it. No, I don't mean they have to be a Certified Instructor, I mean they have to have a good understanding of the game and of fundamentals, and a lot of good players play by instinct and aren't as knowledgable as they think they are.

Bob
 
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