Thickness of Slate; Effect on Playability, 1.5", 2" slates vintage tables and Connellys?

Timkrieger

Timkrieger

Well-known member
Hi all, I'm currently looking at purchasing several different vintage Brunswick jumbo frame tables from the teens and 20's, Kling, Regina, Arcade. Brunswick offered 1.5" slates as options on these tables and Connelly recently offered their ultimate package with massive 2" slate.

Any measurable difference with the ball roll or playability with these thicker slates when compared to a 1" slate? Curious to know opinions from mechanics.

Thanks!
 
Timkrieger said:
Hi all, I'm currently looking at purchasing several different vintage Brunswick jumbo frame tables from the teens and 20's, Kling, Regina, Arcade. Brunswick offered 1.5" slates as options on these tables and Connelly recently offered their ultimate package with massive 2" slate.

Any measurable difference with the ball roll or playability with these thicker slates when compared to a 1" slate? Curious to know opinions from mechanics.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Thicker slate will equate to longer ball travel. This is due to less energy loss, through vibration. How noticeable the effect would depend on a number of other factors, including the quality of the setup.
 
Timkrieger said:
Hi all, I'm currently looking at purchasing several different vintage Brunswick jumbo frame tables from the teens and 20's, Kling, Regina, Arcade. Brunswick offered 1.5" slates as options on these tables and Connelly recently offered their ultimate package with massive 2" slate.

Any measurable difference with the ball roll or playability with these thicker slates when compared to a 1" slate? Curious to know opinions from mechanics.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
bradsh98 said:
Thicker slate will equate to longer ball travel. This is due to less energy loss, through vibration. How noticeable the effect would depend on a number of other factors, including the quality of the setup.
Click to expand...
It was determined long ago that at 1" thick, the balls rolling on the cloth no longer could be heard, so 1" became the normal thickness for professional grade slate. Jumping balls gets easier with the thicker slates due to the density of the slate and its ability to remain stable during jump shots. As far as balls rolling further on thicker slates, I don't know about that.
 
Thanks, appreciate the feedback! From what I can tell, looks like Brunswick didn't really offer the 1.5" slate option on the tables after 1940. I do see a lot of the jumbo frame tables from the 20's seem to be fitted with those thick slates. They are beauties.
 
My club has multiple 3cushion tables:
2x 40mm = 1 37/64 inch
1x 50mm = 1 31/32 inch
1x 60mm = 2 23/64 inch
The thicker slate gives longer ball travel due to lower loss of energy through vibration
Our top players prefer the thicker slate tables
In Europe most pooltable manufacturers use 1 inch of 1 3/16 inch thick slate on their competition models.
Only some custom pooltable manufacturers provide the option for thicker slate.
 
MamboFats said:
My club has multiple 3cushion tables:
2x 40mm = 1 37/64 inch
1x 50mm = 1 31/32 inch
1x 60mm = 2 23/64 inch
The thicker slate gives longer ball travel due to lower loss of energy through vibration
Our top players prefer the thicker slate tables
In Europe most pooltable manufacturers use 1 inch of 1 3/16 inch thick slate on their competition models.
Only some custom pooltable manufacturers provide the option for thicker slate.
Click to expand...
Gabrielle is European and they use 60mm slates. I have to ask if you have studies to back up the claim thicker slates equal longer ball travel, as opposed to myth and opinions. There are to many factors that determine how far a ball will travel on the playing surface of a table to make the claim the thickness of the slate makes the ball roll further.
 
MamboFats said:
My club has multiple 3cushion tables:
2x 40mm = 1 37/64 inch
1x 50mm = 1 31/32 inch
1x 60mm = 2 23/64 inch
The thicker slate gives longer ball travel due to lower loss of energy through vibration
Our top players prefer the thicker slate tables
In Europe most pooltable manufacturers use 1 inch of 1 3/16 inch thick slate on their competition models.
Only some custom pooltable manufacturers provide the option for thicker slate.
Click to expand...
The top 3 billiards manufacturers in 3C tables are all European, and use slate from 50-60mm.
 
It definitely seems from studying the history of the Brunswick jumbo frame tables that the thick slates were especially common on the Carom tables, the large snooker tables and that carried over to many of the 5x10's, the 6 pocket pool tables. Maybe the thought was to give those massive 5x10's the longest roll possible. I know there are so many other variables that effect roll like the humidity, cloth condition, temperature. Brunswick may have also offered the thicker slate for the added heft and weight that it gives to the table, gives the tables more stability which was always a big selling point.
 
Timkrieger said:
It definitely seems from studying the history of the Brunswick jumbo frame tables that the thick slates were especially common on the Carom tables, the large snooker tables and that carried over to many of the 5x10's, the 6 pocket pool tables. Maybe the thought was to give those massive 5x10's the longest roll possible. I know there are so many other variables that effect roll like the humidity, cloth condition, temperature. Brunswick may have also offered the thicker slate for the added heft and weight that it gives to the table, gives the tables more stability which was always a big selling point.
Click to expand...
How about the fact that they're T-rails, bolted into the sides of the slates, instead of up through them? They NEEDED thicker slates for that rail bolt system, and the 1" slate with that system seems to always need repaired.
 
realkingcobra said:
Gabrielle is European and they use 60mm slates. I have to ask if you have studies to back up the claim thicker slates equal longer ball travel, as opposed to myth and opinions. There are to many factors that determine how far a ball will travel on the playing surface of a table to make the claim the thickness of the slate makes the ball roll further.
Click to expand...
In all honesty: I have no knowledge of any studies concerning this.
What I do know is: in my club all tables have the same rubbers/cushions (and same age), until last week they all had the same Simonis cloth. All tables have electronically controlled heating in a climatized room. And most top players told me what I wrote down. Their billiards knowledge stretches far beyond mine and as one with a mathematical and scientific background, their explanation makes sense to me.
I agree there are dozens of factors that have an influence on how a table plays, but if this factor is one that can be controlled, why shouldn't it be legit. I'm very much interested in the scientific approach of proving this (I loved Jack Koehler's book "The Science of Pocket Billiards").

Our 40mm slate-tables are the French brand Breton, the 60mm slate-table is Toulet and the 50mm slate table is a Verhoeven. Last week the tabels got new cloths: the 2 40mm's got brand new Simonis, the 2 other got Royal Pro (the new synthetic cloth from Greece).

The explanation for the 1" thickness I find also very interesting.
 
MamboFats said:
In all honesty: I have no knowledge of any studies concerning this.
What I do know is: in my club all tables have the same rubbers/cushions (and same age), until last week they all had the same Simonis cloth. All tables have electronically controlled heating in a climatized room. And most top players told me what I wrote down. Their billiards knowledge stretches far beyond mine and as one with a mathematical and scientific background, their explanation makes sense to me.
I agree there are dozens of factors that have an influence on how a table plays, but if this factor is one that can be controlled, why shouldn't it be legit. I'm very much interested in the scientific approach of proving this (I loved Jack Koehler's book "The Science of Pocket Billiards").

Our 40mm slate-tables are the French brand Breton, the 60mm slate-table is Toulet and the 50mm slate table is a Verhoeven. Last week the tabels got new cloths: the 2 40mm's got brand new Simonis, the 2 other got Royal Pro (the new synthetic cloth from Greece).

The explanation for the 1" thickness I find also very interesting.
Click to expand...
Different cloths play differently, as well as different colors play differently as well too.
 
realkingcobra said:
How about the fact that they're T-rails, bolted into the sides of the slates, instead of up through them? They NEEDED thicker slates for that rail bolt system, and the 1" slate with that system seems to always need repaired.
Click to expand...
I had always thought the same. Using a T-rail attachment on a 1 inch slate was asking for trouble.
 
Lawnboy77 said:
I had always thought the same. Using a T-rail attachment on a 1 inch slate was asking for trouble.
Click to expand...
T-rail designed mounting systems inherently lose energy when balls are banked off the rails because they have a tendency to absorb some of that energy by way of flexibility when balls are banked, more so on 1" vs 1 1/2" slate. That is why a lot of the top snooker and 3C table manufacturers have switched over to steel rail blocks instead of wooden rails alone.
 
I have 9' Kling pool tables in Mahogany and Russian Circassian Walnut. Call Mark at Pool Table Magic 860-627-8494.
Also have Rochester, Pfister, Medalist, and many,, many more.
 
realkingcobra said:
Gabrielle is European and they use 60mm slates. I have to ask if you have studies to back up the claim thicker slates equal longer ball travel, as opposed to myth and opinions. There are to many factors that determine how far a ball will travel on the playing surface of a table to make the claim the thickness of the slate makes the ball roll further.
Click to expand...
I made a call to Diamond soon after the partnership ended with Gabriel when considering a Gabriel lamp. The conversation got long and we discussed this very topic and related to Carom tables. Excessive vibration was picked up on less than ?? 50mm slates. Vibration may have been an assumption, rather than measured, due to the sound of the ball rolling.

We didn't talk about pool tables. Going over 1" is possibly not necessary.

Although Brunswick's old catalogs calls out 1.5" (38mm) slate option, my old T-Rail measured 1.625" (41mm). Like everything else like this, in those days you got a full measure.

BTW It at least used to be that 60mm was an option with Gabriel. Standard was 50mm.
 
3kushn said:
I made a call to Diamond soon after the partnership ended with Gabriel when considering a Gabriel lamp. The conversation got long and we discussed this very topic and related to Carom tables. Excessive vibration was picked up on less than ?? 50mm slates. Vibration may have been an assumption, rather than measured, due to the sound of the ball rolling.

We didn't talk about pool tables. Going over 1" is possibly not necessary.

Although Brunswick's old catalogs calls out 1.5" (38mm) slate option, my old T-Rail measured 1.625" (41mm). Like everything else like this, in those days you got a full measure.

BTW It at least used to be that 60mm was an option with Gabriel. Standard was 50mm.
Click to expand...
Yep, delivered enough 60mm slates to know, I don't DO that anymore!
 
PoolTableMagic said:
I have 9' Kling pool tables in Mahogany and Russian Circassian Walnut. Call Mark at Pool Table Magic 860-627-8494.
Also have Rochester, Pfister, Medalist, and many,, many more.
Click to expand...
PoolTableMagic said:
I have 9' Kling pool tables in Mahogany and Russian Circassian Walnut. Call Mark at Pool Table Magic 860-627-8494.
Also have Rochester, Pfister, Medalist, and many,, many more.
Click to expand...
Are you a table mechanic, or just interested in sales?
 
Hello realkingcobra: Yes I am a table mechanic, restore, and refinish pool tables. Yes, I offer sales and service. My comment was in direct response to Timkrieger opening statement " I'm currently looking at purchasing several different vintage Brunswick jumbo frame tables from the teens and 20's, Kling, Regina, Arcade...." I responded to introduce myself and share that I have tables he is looking for and may be of service for him.
 
realkingcobra said:
Are you a table mechanic, or just interested in sales?
Click to expand...
PoolTableMagic said:
Hello realkingcobra: Yes I am a table mechanic, restore, and refinish pool tables. Yes, I offer sales and service. My comment was in direct response to Timkrieger opening statement " I'm currently looking at purchasing several different vintage Brunswick jumbo frame tables from the teens and 20's, Kling, Regina, Arcade...." I responded to introduce myself and share that I have tables he is looking for and may be of service for him.
Click to expand...
I understand that, and I see you've been a member since 2006, and this is your 18th post in 15 years😅
If you're looking to sell pool tables, there is a for sale forum that would give you much more exposure that the talk to a mechanic forum would. Looking forward to seeing your contributions here as a table mechanic, welcome to the forum.
 
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