Think I Fixed My Stroke

SSDiver2112

SSDiver2112

Escott Cues
I've only been playing about five years. For a while I felt like I hit a plateau and wasn't improving. This past year I have had more opportunity to play, and I feel I've really started to improve my game. Consistency has been my frustration. I have focused on my fundamentals and tried to be as aware as possible. I think my aim is good, but I would get in a rut and start missing shots. It was very frustrating. I noticed I was sending the object ball left most of the time. I thought I was hitting the cue ball center, but I was actually hitting a little off. I have noticed a wobble in my test stroke and moved my shoulder and arm around to try to settle it down. Every little bit helps, but hasn't made a solid improvement.

I was warming up with a new guy on our team last night and he watched me shoot a few and suggested I move my grip back some. I was holding it around the center of the wrap and moved it to the back end. I was so cramped up I couldn't make a clean stroke. I was amazed at how much more comfortable and stable my stroke was simply by moving my grip back a few inches. I felt like an idiot for not realizing, but I am excited that I may have solved the mystery of why I couldn't hit the ball straight sometimes.

Looking forward to working with this some more tonight. Videoing your self helps some, but you may not know what to look for. If your having trouble with your stroke have someone watch it. Try different people if you need to till the right person sees your flaws.
 
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Oh my. 😲

You should never say anything like “I fixed my stroke” or “I solved the problem”…

You can silently think it to yourself, but if you say it out loud, the pool gods will hand you an epic beat down out of spite! 😂
 
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Wrap a rubber band around the cue where you want the back of your hand to stop. It's a soft reminder for when you have your hand where you want it to be. Before long you'll forget about putting the band there and your new grip position will become more of a second nature... that is, until it slips to the wrong spots again and we have to do this all over haha
 
8cree said:
Wrap a rubber band around the cue where you want the back of your hand to stop. It's a soft reminder for when you have your hand where you want it to be. Before long you'll forget about putting the band there and your new grip position will become more of a second nature... that is, until it slips to the wrong spots again and we have to do this all over haha
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Thanks for that. I was surprised that once I was aware of it, I was sliding into the right spot pretty naturally. At least I was last night. I seemed most comfortable when my pinky hit the ring at the end of the grip (Irish linen), so no rubber band needed at this point.
 
This thread reminds me of the book Mastery. Maybe the author was George Leonard.

The jist was that progress on the course towards mastery inevitably involves long plateaus and bursts of progress, and working through the plateaus is a necessary part of success. (People can be categorized by how they respond to plateaus, by quitting, or not trying to improve, or becoming obsessive then quitting, or by working through it and eventually becoming a 'master').

The phrase that summed it up that stuck with me was "Mastery is staying on the path". But the main takeaway was to accept plateaus and keep trying to improve.

None of which really has much to do with having a flaw in your stroke and fixing it. But it came to mind.
 
Pin said:
This thread reminds me of the book Mastery. Maybe the author was George Leonard.

The jist was that progress on the course towards mastery inevitably involves long plateaus and bursts of progress, and working through the plateaus is a necessary part of success. (People can be categorized by how they respond to plateaus, by quitting, or not trying to improve, or becoming obsessive then quitting, or by working through it and eventually becoming a 'master').

The phrase that summed it up that stuck with me was "Mastery is staying on the path". But the main takeaway was to accept plateaus and keep trying to improve.

None of which really has much to do with having a flaw in your stroke and fixing it. But it came to mind.
Click to expand...
Robert Greene?
I posted about it a year or two ago and got shit on.
I thought it was cool.
Shit on might be a bit strong

Literature for pool

I was cleaning out some closets and was looking through old books. Nobody ever mentions Mastery by Robert Greene. Ive always thought this was a great book to give perspective on the learning process. I think its a great read. Thoughts?
forums.azbilliards.com
 
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SSDiver2112 said:
I've only been playing about five years. For a while I felt like I hit a plateau and wasn't improving. This past year I have had more opportunity to play, and I feel I've really started to improve my game. Consistency has been my frustration. I have focused on my fundamentals and tried to be as aware as possible. I think my aim is good, but I would get in a rut and start missing shots. It was very frustrating. I noticed I was sending the object ball left most of the time. I thought I was hitting the cue ball center, but I was actually hitting a little off. I have noticed a wobble in my test stroke and moved my shoulder and arm around to try to settle it down. Every little bit helps, but hasn't made a solid improvement.

I was warming up with a new guy on our team last night and he watched me shoot a few and suggested I move my grip back some. I was holding it around the center of the wrap and moved it to the back end. I was so cramped up I couldn't make a clean stroke. I was amazed at how much more comfortable and stable my stroke was simply by moving my grip back a few inches. I felt like an idiot for not realizing, but I am excited that I may have solved the mystery of why I couldn't hit the ball straight sometimes.

Looking forward to working with this some more tonight. Videoing your self helps some, but you may not know what to look for. If your having trouble with your stroke have someone watch it. Try different people if you need to till the right person sees your flaws.
Click to expand...
When video cameras first became generally available, I set one up aimed at my home table. When I saw myself playing, I was truly amazed at how perfect my stroke/stance was. What I hadn’t expected to see, was the way my head frequently bobbed up.
 
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SSDiver2112 said:
I've only been playing about five years. For a while I felt like I hit a plateau and wasn't improving. This past year I have had more opportunity to play, and I feel I've really started to improve my game. Consistency has been my frustration. I have focused on my fundamentals and tried to be as aware as possible. I think my aim is good, but I would get in a rut and start missing shots. It was very frustrating. I noticed I was sending the object ball left most of the time. I thought I was hitting the cue ball center, but I was actually hitting a little off. I have noticed a wobble in my test stroke and moved my shoulder and arm around to try to settle it down. Every little bit helps, but hasn't made a solid improvement.

I was warming up with a new guy on our team last night and he watched me shoot a few and suggested I move my grip back some. I was holding it around the center of the wrap and moved it to the back end. I was so cramped up I couldn't make a clean stroke. I was amazed at how much more comfortable and stable my stroke was simply by moving my grip back a few inches. I felt like an idiot for not realizing, but I am excited that I may have solved the mystery of why I couldn't hit the ball straight sometimes.

Looking forward to working with this some more tonight. Videoing your self helps some, but you may not know what to look for. If your having trouble with your stroke have someone watch it. Try different people if you need to till the right person sees your flaws.
Click to expand...
If your grip hand is too choked up on the cue, you can’t draw the cue back without raising your elbow, and you’ll have a very limited follow through without developing a pronounced elbow drop.

Yes, this is an extremely important aspect to a having a fundamentally sound stroke, just as holding your grip hand too far back on the cue will also result in stroking flaws.
 
Pin said:
This thread reminds me of the book Mastery. Maybe the author was George Leonard.

The jist was that progress on the course towards mastery inevitably involves long plateaus and bursts of progress, and working through the plateaus is a necessary part of success. (People can be categorized by how they respond to plateaus, by quitting, or not trying to improve, or becoming obsessive then quitting, or by working through it and eventually becoming a 'master').

The phrase that summed it up that stuck with me was "Mastery is staying on the path". But the main takeaway was to accept plateaus and keep trying to improve.

None of which really has much to do with having a flaw in your stroke and fixing it. But it came to mind.
Click to expand...

I appreciate you mentioning it because I think it actually does apply as a secondary point.
The first time I plateaued I was on a Monday night league and that was mostly it. One night a week just playing and not really practicing. I wasn't that good yet so plateauing at that point was a bit discouraging because I lost a lot. I loved playing though and pushed through. Once I got to a table to just practice and met a guy that gave me some pointers, I started to see an improvement.

This second mini plateau was really frustrating because I felt like I was being more consistent with my fundamentals, but the inconsistent results said otherwise. The first plateau I was playing all the same bad. This time I was on, and then suddenly way off. I know we all have our good days and bad days, but deep down this felt different and could happen on the same day. Anyway I am hoping this will be a key moving on and working towards my next plateau down the road. I'll play with my position to be sure of the sweet spot.
 
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SSDiver2112 said:
I've only been playing about five years. For a while I felt like I hit a plateau and wasn't improving. This past year I have had more opportunity to play, and I feel I've really started to improve my game. Consistency has been my frustration. I have focused on my fundamentals and tried to be as aware as possible. I think my aim is good, but I would get in a rut and start missing shots. It was very frustrating. I noticed I was sending the object ball left most of the time. I thought I was hitting the cue ball center, but I was actually hitting a little off. I have noticed a wobble in my test stroke and moved my shoulder and arm around to try to settle it down. Every little bit helps, but hasn't made a solid improvement.

I was warming up with a new guy on our team last night and he watched me shoot a few and suggested I move my grip back some. I was holding it around the center of the wrap and moved it to the back end. I was so cramped up I couldn't make a clean stroke. I was amazed at how much more comfortable and stable my stroke was simply by moving my grip back a few inches. I felt like an idiot for not realizing, but I am excited that I may have solved the mystery of why I couldn't hit the ball straight sometimes.

Looking forward to working with this some more tonight. Videoing your self helps some, but you may not know what to look for. If your having trouble with your stroke have someone watch it. Try different people if you need to till the right person sees your flaws.
Click to expand...
How long is your bridge? When you are down on the ball as your tip hits the cueball where is your stroking arm? Something about pool and holding the cue. When you grab the cue and get down on the ball, you will tend to hold the cue where it feels the most natural without thinking.

For someone that has been playing pool for 5 years, I doubt what you have been doing is wrong. In fact it is probably natural to you. If you are now holding the cue different your bridge is going to change maybe even your stance. You have been playing long enough you have a style already, be careful about too much tinkering.

You may also want to check the balance point on your cue. If you are wanting to hold the cue more forward, something is telling you to do that. Your cue may be very front heavy. I've been playing pool for over 60 years, there is so much more then someone just saying, " hold your cue back a few inches".
With that, I hope your discovery turns out to be golden, it may very well turn out to be a big difference.
 
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couldnthinkof01 said:
Robert Greene?
I posted about it a year or two ago and got shit on.
I thought it was cool.
Shit on might be a bit strong

Literature for pool

I was cleaning out some closets and was looking through old books. Nobody ever mentions Mastery by Robert Greene. Ive always thought this was a great book to give perspective on the learning process. I think its a great read. Thoughts?
forums.azbilliards.com
Click to expand...
This is the one I meant.


Robert Greene's looks interesting too. I've heard of his 48 Laws of Power but not read it. Somehow the number is offputting - I don't mind a long book, but if I'm inevitably going to forget 45 of them, what's the point?
 
Pin said:
This is the one I meant.


Robert Greene's looks interesting too. I've heard of his 48 Laws of Power but not read it. Somehow the number is offputting - I don't mind a long book, but if I'm inevitably going to forget 45 of them, what's the point?
Click to expand...
Ah. I'll check that one out.
Mastery is the only one of his books I read.
48 probably too many for me too.
Memory is not what it used be.
 
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ChrisinNC said:
If your grip hand is too choked up on the cue, you can’t draw the cue back without raising your elbow, and you’ll have a very limited follow through without developing a pronounced elbow drop.

Yes, this is an extremely important aspect to a having a fundamentally sound stroke, just as holding your grip hand too far back on the cue will also result in stroking flaws.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry but what’s wrong with elbow drop. I keep reading it here on the billiard forums but I really do disagree with whoever came up with that!! Elbow drop on draw shots isn’t a problem as a matter of fact it’s an advantage!! I hope people don’t read this information off an azb thread which full of myths and keep repeating them on other threads too. Elbow drop is a good thing for power draws if you can master it! Watch snooker players on their draw back strokes then tell me iam wrong.

Back to topic. I firmly believe that where you grip the cue depends on many factors. There’s no set rule where it says you must hold at the end of grip. Your arm length plays a role as well as your height and stance. Trust me on that, if you’re comfortable holding in the middle of wrap then it’s good. CJ Wiley in the 90s had a choked up grip and he was a beast and can do all shots. Listen OP if you’re more comfortable holding at the end of wrap that’s fine but remember nothing wrong if you’re more comfortable holding a a little further in front. Post a video of your stroke if you can.
 
smoochie said:
I’m sorry but what’s wrong with elbow drop. I keep reading it here on the billiard forums but I really do disagree with whoever came up with that!! Elbow drop on draw shots isn’t a problem as a matter of fact it’s an advantage!! I hope people don’t read this information off an azb thread which full of myths and keep repeating them on other threads too. Elbow drop is a good thing for power draws if you can master it! Watch snooker players on their draw back strokes then tell me iam wrong.
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I've watched snooker players... You're wrong...?..lol. I don't know if you are, but I'm just doing what you asked ;)

For snooker players, generally elbow drop is the product of a lengthy follow thru. That tends to be the case when hitting "power draw" shots. Dropping your elbow prior to striking the CB adds an element of unnecessary timing to your stroke mechanics. Whether there's gain to be had, I don't know. What I'm confident in, is that the vast, vast..., vast majority of players are better off limiting variables that will likely cause other problems, then trying to squeak out a few more inches in their draw shot.
 
The_JV said:
I've watched snooker players... You're wrong...?..lol. I don't know if you are, but I'm just doing what you asked ;)

For snooker players, generally elbow drop is the product of a lengthy follow thru. That tends to be the case when hitting "power draw" shots. Dropping your elbow prior to striking the CB adds an element of unnecessary timing to your stroke mechanics. Whether there's gain to be had, I don't know. What I'm confident in, is that the vast, vast..., vast majority of players are better off limiting variables that will likely cause other problems, then trying to squeak out a few more inches in their draw shot.
Click to expand...
I didn’t say you drop the elbow prior to striking. Where did I say that.

but you seem to understand the concept so in a sense you’re agreeing with me. The drop the elbow happens as you follow throw on either power draw shots or follow shots. Some people in here advise against that and I feel that they’re just misinformed.

if you see snooker player from head on you’ll see that as they follow throw the elbow will disappear from your point of view watching them straight on which means they have dropped the elbow very nicely and straight behind their heads (from the perspective of the viewer watching him face on).

So we are in an agreement I feel. There’s one snooker instructional video that I watched years ago. I’ll look it up and link it here, I couldn’t find it just now. It shows views of how the elbow drop is an advantage (again here I mean after you shoot and as you follow through). Again the reason I post this cause some people think it’s not good. When it is a very good thing to learn
 
smoochie said:
I’m sorry but what’s wrong with elbow drop. I keep reading it here on the billiard forums but I really do disagree with whoever came up with that!! Elbow drop on draw shots isn’t a problem as a matter of fact it’s an advantage!! I hope people don’t read this information off an azb thread which full of myths and keep repeating them on other threads too. Elbow drop is a good thing for power draws if you can master it! Watch snooker players on their draw back strokes then tell me iam wrong.
Click to expand...
The elbow drop is simple mechanical engineering. If you don't drop the elbow the cue must arc into the table. Further, if you are short in stature, you can damage your elbow stifling the drop. People should pay more attention to the linearity of the tip end.
 
8cree said:
Wrap a rubber band around the cue where you want the back of your hand to stop. It's a soft reminder for when you have your hand where you want it to be. Before long you'll forget about putting the band there and your new grip position will become more of a second nature... that is, until it slips to the wrong spots again and we have to do this all over haha
Click to expand...

Nah, the band gets messed up in the case.

Use scotch tape. It is nearly invisible, doesn't harm the finish, and will fit in your case.


Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Nah, the band gets messed up in the case.

Use scotch tape. It is nearly invisible, doesn't harm the finish, and will fit in your case.


Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...
...or take it off before putting in the case... but I don't hate the tape idea either (y)
 
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