This came up in 8ball

fan-tum

fan-tum

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My shot- i'm solids. The only thing I can do is hit the cb into the 8 hopefully freezing the 8 to the 9, and hope for a stalemate. I tried to do it, but my touch was too heavy, and I knocked in his last ball. I think I could have had better success trying the same shot, but with an illegal stroke-gently pushing the cb instead of stroking it. The precedence for this thread is the Schmidt-Sigel 14.1 match where on 2 occasions Schmidt pushed the cb instead of stroking it for safety play near the rack. What's the legality of that shot?http://CueTable.com/P/?@3EYLC1GNnx4HWBw4IYvd4PTXT@

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p.s Schmidt placed the tip on the cb,and gently pushed it.
 
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Too many times people concentrate on what to do in one-off situations like this..

In this particular situation, your opponent at some point was shooting on his last ball, and missed, or played a safe. Then, you ran a few balls, and left yourself here.

Or, you might have ran a few balls and missed, and he ran 6, and missed, leaving you this.

The key is, in 8-ball, table management. There was some point in this game where you either won or lost the game. This position you are showing us is not it.

It doesn't really help you to improve by over analyzing "how do I best improve my chances here from a 5% chance to win, to a 10% chance to win?"

Even so, I'll still offer my advice here. Forget about going for the safe. Bank the 5 ball cross side, using inside follow, going off the rail to get on the 7 in the corner. If you execute this shot, can make the 7, and then shoot a stop shot on the 8, pocketing the 9 ball and sending the 8 ball off the 9 three rails to the opposite end of the table from the CB.

The point is, yes, if you hit this safety shot perfect, you'll get a stalemate. If you hit it just slightly less than perfect, he shoots a kick shot either off the top rail or side rail, and is a strong favorite to win. If you hit it bad, OR a small grain of chalk makes the 8 ball roll off, you lose immediately.

If you can remember, show us the rest of the rack. We might be able to help you out with a better decision at a critical point.

Russ
 
fan-tum said:
Russ, the table is there, but you didn't enter a comment
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I simply put the cuetable info in the wei tags so it would show properly. I gave my comments in the next post.

Russ
 
Is it legal to pocket the 8 after the 9 by following into the 8 with the cueball after it contacts the 9?

Never mind--I see now that you were solids.
 
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bank the 7 into the 9, making the 9 or play safe then shooting the 7 9 combo.
 
If you can run those two solids, you may be able to get shape to bank the 8 into the corner, or if you get straight on the 8, you may be able to make the 8 follow the 9 into the same pocket.
 
hkwong said:
bank the 7 into the 9, making the 9 or play safe then shooting the 7 9 combo.
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I'm too agressive... That was the first shot I saw. Speed is critical though; most likely you will end up selling out. I don't think running your balls is going to up your chances to win unless you are confident with the bank. Miss that and you sell out too. Russ is right; avoid the situation in the first place. JMO.
 
Play Safe

Bank the five straight across the table using running english.

One of two things(or both) should occur.

Cue ball will be behind the 7 ball and/or the 5 ball will be blocking access to the 9.
 
PoolBum said:
Is it legal to pocket the 8 after the 9 by following into the 8 with the cueball after it contacts the 9?

Never mind--I see now that you were solids.
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In answer to your question:

If you were stripes, you have a legal requirement to contact a stripe. At the very millisecond you contact the 8 first, it is a foul, and the pocketing of the 9 does not matter.

If it had been instead the 7 blocking the 9 from entering the pocket, and you struck the 9, pocketing the 7, and the 9 followed the 7 in, that would be a legal shot. As long as you called that pocket.

Russ
 
It seems obvious to me here what the best percentage shot is of holding off your opponent. You have to bank the 7 back into the nine with pocket speed like a one pocket bank. The cueball goes up table and one of the following happens:
1. you pocket the 9 and block the pocket for the 8

2. you hit the 8 and pocket the seven and the 8 goes to the short rail

3. You do neither but leave lots of clutter so your opponent has a much tougher position with a rail first pocketing of the 9 and the 7 could block your opponent from even hitting the 9.

I think the long rail bank will give your the highest percentage to win and there is a lot of room for error. I don't like anything else except because pocketing the 7 won't really do you any good, and the banking the 5 will not lead to very good position on the seven. Oh, and be careful that the cueball doesn't scratch in the corner when you bank the 7.
 
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fan-tum said:
... on 2 occasions Schmidt pushed the cb instead of stroking it for safety play near the rack. What's the legality of that shot?
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It's at least a push shot foul - maybe unsportsmanlike conduct for doing it intentionally (which could result in loss of game, match or even being ejected from the tournament).

pj
chgo
 
Neil said:
I'm rather surprised at some of the answers. Banking the 7 into the 9 to block the pocket from the 8 is no easy task. It requires great accuracy on the bank, plus great speed control.

If this player has that kind of control, he is much better off just making the 7 in the corner with left draw and an easy ,good, stroke. Then just shoot the 5 in the corner, follow down to near the end rail, and take that much easier bank on the 8.

But, since he doesn't seem to have those capabilities yet, per the touch safe he failed at. I say the touch safe was his best option at his level. Just needs to work on his 'touch' more.
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I wasn't basing the best option based on his skill, but that's what I would feel confident in doing. Trying to make the seven and get on the five is a bad option even for a great player because the 8 is blocked and shape for the bank is only going to come after you make 2 spectacular shots. Banking the seven back in the corner is not that difficult for a decent one-hole player.

The tap/touch safety is a 100% loss. If you give me ball in hand, you will like your next shot even less than this one. I'm not sure why anyone would even consider that option in this situation..it is not an option period.
 
Neil said:
I'm rather surprised at some of the answers. Banking the 7 into the 9 to block the pocket from the 8 is no easy task. It requires great accuracy on the bank, plus great speed control.
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I think what almost everyone who is advocating this shot is not notcing is the proximity of the 8 ball to where your bridge hand needs to be.

You are cueing over the edge of the 8 ball to bank the 7, therefore you will be jacked up on the shot. To further complicate things, the most consistent way to hit this particular bank well is to put a touch of left english to counteract collision induced throw. Good luck with that, jacked up over the 8 ball.

Given that you cannot spin this bank, to get the bank long enough not to sell out, you have to hit the bank pretty darn close to the pocket.

Russ
 
Russ Chewning said:
I think what almost everyone who is advocating this shot is not notcing is the proximity of the 8 ball to where your bridge hand needs to be.

You are cueing over the edge of the 8 ball to bank the 7, therefore you will be jacked up on the shot. To further complicate things, the most consistent way to hit this particular bank well is to put a touch of left english to counteract collision induced throw. Good luck with that, jacked up over the 8 ball.

Given that you cannot spin this bank, to get the bank long enough not to sell out, you have to hit the bank pretty darn close to the pocket.

Russ
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I look at it and I would not be jacked up...maybe a hair awkward. If you are jacked up then obviously I wouldn't play my shot.
 
Aball:
Trying to make the seven and get on the five is a bad option even for a great player because the 8 is blocked and shape for the bank is only going to come after you make 2 spectacular shots. Banking the seven back in the corner is not that difficult for a decent one-hole player.
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The 7 and 5 don't look to me like spectacular shots at all, especially for somebody who's so confident of banking the 7 into the 9:

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pj
chgo
 
Really?????????....the 7 is a very low percentage shot, and you're postion on the bank on the 8 is incorrect unless you're slow spinning it with inside english and then it is also a spectacular shot.
My point was that banking the seven back allows for the most margin of error of any other choice and will be productive in successfully winning the game.

I'm going to the pool hall right now, and I will set this shot up. Maybe I'm just getting tunnel vision; my shot could be way harder than I'm actually thinking. I will report back.
 
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Patrick, finally the answer I was trying to get.
I'm going to rewatch that tape of Schmidt-Sigel to see if I'm mis-remembering that intentional push. But the referee did nothing.
 
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