This Finally Dawned On Me

[mjantti]

When talking about difficulty, you have realize two different things: difficult to execute shots or difficult to realize the correct pattern (percentage play). While 9-ball requires more spin and position play than 14.1 thus making you face shots which require more skill, 14.1 requires you to understand the finer aspects of the game: kisses, breaking up clusters, pattern play etc, because a good player rarely faces a difficult shot in 14.1. So, if you talk about difficulty, the layout in a rack of 9-ball with all balls on the table will tell if the player is capable of running out or not. Beginner or intermediate player can run the whole rack if the balls are laying nicely. In 14.1, when you face an open shot, the layout usually doesn't make much difference, beginner player will run less than 10 and advanced player is likely to run his overall average, 30 for instance.

So my point is, some players are good shotmakers with less ability to brain labour. They make good 9-ballers. Some players aren't so capable of excellent shotmaking but they know how to analyze the rack and know the little things. They make good 8-ballers and straight pool players. The lack of ability to brain labour means usually the lack of years playing.

 

[DaveK]

have you ever seen someone that played any other game but 9 ball well that couldn't play 9 ball pretty well? i haven't.

How was Steve Davis at 9 Ball when he first took up the game ? There is no doubting his ability in snooker, but I did not see him tearing up the 9 Ball competition. He did play 'pretty well', so maybe he is not a great example.

Generally though I do agree, cueing skills are transferable between games. The problem is that the strategy and tactics are unique to the specific game and dependant on the rules. It took me a bit to get used to the UK bar rules for 8 Ball (even though the tables had 7 red, 7 yellow, and a black ball) and found myself making poor choices by not understanding the rules nor the implications of their application (the 2 shots after a foul rule really messed with my head for a bit).

Hypothetically, make up some pool game will a full compliment of rules, then invite a top level player to play the game. They will take some time to adapt to the game (learning the rules and what is a good strategy for winning, etc.) and can be beaten by a lesser cueist who knows the game while they do. Once they get the hang of it though, watch out ....

Dave

 

[buddha162]

lol......that makes me ass backwards then. i get out more in 9 ball than 8 ball. but then to, i don't play 8 that much and my 8 ball break sucks. if i practiced the break, i'd probably get out alot more.

Hey I have the same problem breaking in 8-ball. When I try breaking the way I break in 9-ball (side rail, launching cb to the tip of the pyramid) I never get a good spread, and often the cueball hops right off the table.

I agree that the layout determines how difficult the runout will be, so a good break helps alot. Having some knowledge in straight pool really helps too, imo, especially cluster management and getting tight shape. I always play to run out on a big table, even if I have to take chances. I will shoot myself if I start in on an APA safety screw-on in a game I don't play more than once a month, lol.

-Roger

 

[buddha162]

While 9-ball requires more spin and position play than 14.1 thus making you face shots which require more skill...

I don't even think that's true: most of the time 9-ball position targets are much larger than that of straight pool, and unless it's a tough layout you can land almost anywhere on the right side of the object ball and still get out (within reason of course).

14.1 is a harder game mentally, hands down, and in its own way perhaps harder physically as well (tight, tight position, finesse, etc). I just think that 9-ball requires you to be comfortable with a wider range of shots. You rarely see a good straightpool player force follow the cb 2, 3, 4 rails for shape, or super stroke the cb with bottom 1-2 rails out for shape, but these shots happen routinely in 9-ball. Then you have the kick shots, and all different kinds of safeties and masses and jump-shots rarely used in 14.1

But my unwavering opinion is this: running 150 balls in straight pool is 10 times harder than running whatever number of racks in 9ball. No contest at all.

-Roger

 

[mjantti]

I don't even think that's true: most of the time 9-ball position targets are much larger than that of straight pool, and unless it's a tough layout you can land almost anywhere on the right side of the object ball and still get out (within reason of course).

14.1 is a harder game mentally, hands down, and in its own way perhaps harder physically as well (tight, tight position, finesse, etc). I just think that 9-ball requires you to be comfortable with a wider range of shots. You rarely see a good straightpool player force follow the cb 2, 3, 4 rails for shape, or super stroke the cb with bottom 1-2 rails out for shape, but these shots happen routinely in 9-ball. Then you have the kick shots, and all different kinds of safeties and masses and jump-shots rarely used in 14.1

But my unwavering opinion is this: running 150 balls in straight pool is 10 times harder than running whatever number of racks in 9ball. No contest at all.

-Roger

I think I wasn't too clear about myself. I ment that in 9-ball, the cueball travels much more than in 14.1. Admitted, in 9-ball it's enough to move the cueball to a certain area, while in straight pool you usually need a precise position for the next shot... Well, it'a a question of preference if you think it's more difficult to move the cueball 10 feet to a certain area or move the cueball 12 inches to a precise point. I'd say moving the cueball 10 feet is more difficult because it usually requires a good stroke.

 

[RSB-Refugee]

johnny broke and ran 12 straight racks.

What is the record for number of eight ball racks run? I don't know the answer, but I would guess, it is a lot less than the number of 9-Ball racks.

now if u think that was easy and didnt require any type of skill, or talent ur dead wrong. the guys on tv may be able to break and run racks but it took them hours, days, and neverending devotion to the game.

No one said, 9-Ball doesn't require skill, it requires a lot of skill. Once someone does have the skill however, 9-Ball is easier than 8-Ball.

Tracy

 

[Celtic]

There is seriously no contest. 9-ball is one of the only games that actually gets easier as the run progresses. It is a game that normally takes only ONE single great shot to get on shape, then it should be gravy from there unless the shooter manages to screw himself up by landing straight in on a ball he needed angle for due to lack of thought or a crappy stroke. Taken shot for shot the game of 9-ball is a breeze, and it allows for alot of escapes when a shoddy shot is made, the chance to play a safe after bad shape disallows the next pot, or the chance of the safe on a miss, or even a fluke to keep the run alive. Compared to 8-ball which actually gets tougher as the run progresses and on top of that makes missing even more fatal when deeper into the rack there really is no comparison. Watch a accustats of a pro playing 9-ball, try and watch and see how many "difficult" shots they actually make. I will tell ya something, they normally are shooting one easy shot after another because they stay on shape. And staying on shape is not that tough if you simply think. The A level players I play against always baffle me how little they can really think, all they have to do is play center ball for a perfect angle and a simple out but instead they will spin the cueball for straight in on the next shot and make the shape off that shot 5 times as difficult as it should have been. 9-ball is a simple game made difficult by crappy players. There is a reason the pro's make 9-ball look so simple, it is just that easy and they are not stupid enough to screw themselves up and actually take the time to make sure they are looking at least 3 balls ahead and playing the right angles for the shape.

 

[predator]

9ball:
1. Mentally it's the toughest for me at least...miss the 8 or the 9 and you're history...even against much weaker players. People tend to put too much pressure on themselves...myself included. How many times have I lost to a much lesser player in a tournament? Too many times I'm afraid...the last weekend against a guy who can't really run a whole rack. In a race to seven, a ran out twice very nicely, but also missed one of the last 3 balls too many times to count...missed the nine once too. Oh, but my choking still wasn't enough for him to win...he was chasing some really crazy combo's and he made some tough ones too...most embarrassing defeat of my life...my teammates could not believe what they saw. In the end I smiled, congratulated the guy and that was it. Funny, because the tournament before I beat a stronger player than myself...

After the match I was thinking how I could never lose like that at straight pool. At 8ball less likely, but impossible at 14.1. If you're much more capable player in 14.1 you will win even if you're not the greatest at pattern play. No need to fear the guy who can't continue the rack, right? But..hello?!?! This is 9ball, not 14.1. Sadly we have almost no 14.1 competition because fery few players want to even play the game. I must learn how to cope with that 9ball pressure soon, or else...