"This is a scratch shot."

R

recoveryjones

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Has anyone ever lined up a shot, then have your head(silently) suggest that,
"this a scratch shot" and then shoot it and scratch anyways.

I just did it tonight hill-hill( for all the cash and table time) after making the 8 ball and trying for shape on the nine to win the match.It was a hard fought (3 hr.)match against (argueably)the strongest A level player in our pool hall.Man did that hurt.I had him beat and gave him an early Christmas present.I played my heart out, all for not.

A fellow pool player told me that every pool player hears those negative voices from time to time.He said that when your head tells you, "This is a scratch shot" you are supposed to say(silently) "yes I know it's a scratch shot , however, I'm not going to scratch."

He said that our subconscious mind faithfully obeys the last command given.When our ANALytical mind says ,"this is a scratch shot", our subconscious mind says, "Do you want a scratch, no problem ...lets do it."

My question is, does the mind really operate that way? Is my friend right with his observations? Is there left brain/right brain stuff involved here?It seems to me I've scratched more than once when sensing a scratch was on.Next time, I'm going to try my friends formula.Tonight's loss really hurt. RJ
 
It happens all the time to me. But not only on scratch shots but also saying that the CB will go somplace other than where I want. I find that if I re-evaluate the shot I am okay. But if I ignore my subconscious then I fall victim to a bad shot. How many times have I asked myself why I didn't listen and stand up and start over.

Jake
 
recoveryjones said:
Has anyone ever lined up a shot, then have your head(silently) suggest that,
"this a scratch shot" and then shoot it and scratch anyways.
Click to expand...

This may well be about pre-shot routine. Remember, you need to make all your decisions standing up, before you get over the cue ball. Your angle, stroke and speed selections are supposed to be locked in before you get over the cue ball. If you are still analyzing a shot while over the cue ball, you know something is wrong, so stand up and begin your pre-shot routine all over. A good pre-shot routine serves to ensure that you will be totally committed to the decision you make, minimizing the likelihood that you'll second-guess yourself while you are over the cue ball.
 
recoveryjones said:
...He said that our subconscious mind faithfully obeys the last command given.When our ANALytical mind says ,"this is a scratch shot", our subconscious mind says, "Do you want a scratch, no problem ...lets do it."...
Click to expand...

Another parallel with cycling. When riding down a trail, you should always concentrate on where you want to go, not where you don't want to go. If you see the rock, focus on the line that doesn't put you in the dirt, not on the rock that will!!

-piga
 
Good point SJM.

I have heard that often said, but it never really sunk in.

Today I was playing one-pocket and I just realized that I was doing that during the game. (Thought out the shot prior to getting over the ball). But haven't been doing that in the other games. One pocket demands so much thinking that it is much easier to do it while standing. And less strain on the old back.

Now to carry it through into the other games.

Positive thinking does work.

Jake
 
The shot in question wasn't an obvious scratch, only a potential one. My head tried to warn me and the insanity is ,is that I went and scratched anyways.

It was a match winning shot(against a very strong player) and my adrenlin was pumping. When my mind warned me of a potential scratch, I should have re-chalked, did my pre-shot routine again and avoided the scratch plain and simple.

I could have left the cue ball 2-3 ft short of the side pocket and still got out.
I made the shot three times afterwards with a touch of top inside english and came safely to the nine ball side of the side pocket.

Thanks everyone for their suggestions and comments.Here's a guess-timit the shot I screwed up on:

START(
%At0B6%Bt1B6%Ct3C0%Dt5B6%Et2B5%Ft0B9%Gt0B7%HG7I1%IN0Z8%Js9B8
%Kt4B8%Lt4B7%Mt2B8%Ns9B8%Ot1B9%PG7Q6%eB4`5
)END



Anyways I'm proud of the way I played and I will do better next time. RJ
 
recoveryjones said:
The shot in question wasn't an obvious scratch, only a potential one. My head tried to warn me and the insanity is ,is that I went and scratched anyways...RJ
Click to expand...

Dmn, Dude!

You need to hit that shot w/ high + lots of right, so youy go like this:

START(
%At0B6%Bt1B6%Ct3C0%Dt5B6%Et2B5%Ft0B9%Gt0B7%HG7I1%IN0Z8%Js9B8
%Kt4B8%Lt4B7%Mt2B8%Ns9B8%Ot1B9%PG7Q6%Ul0Z6%Vs1N3%WH2J5%XG8Q0
%YQ5C5%ZH4I1%[r4N0%\R5C0%]b8W4%^j8[2%eC3`6
)END

The way you went is not completely wrong, but it's easier to come up bad/ less margin for error.

Oh- it is 9ball, right?!?

-piga
 
Thanks for your suggestion piglet.The way I illustrated the shot on the wei table might be a little off.Two other (Very Good) players both agreed a tad of left english was the way to go. I made the shot three times in a row doing so after the fact.

Your shot does come down the tangent line towards the 9 ball giving more room for error and a much larger shape zone.My shape with left english traveled across the tangent line.Once again the way I illustrated it on the wei table could be a little off as the (good) shot you suggested wasn't really on.I know about that shot you've illustrated.Thanks Rj
 
The position you illustrated is quite sensitive which part of the pocket you hit with the 8. On those shots, you need to have a good idea of your cut to have a precise position for the 9-ball. I would have personally tried to play the cueball slightly above the middle pocket and shoot with a speed which would not make the cueball to reach the long cushion, I'd try to play the position short in case the cueball would bounce to the middle pocket direction from the cushion.
 
Just more comments to digest:

You didn't say HOW you originally shot it, left/right/no english?

I would consider the inside(left) english shot a lower percentage(spin induced throw) and higher risk(scratch) way to go-unneccasarily(also a small position zone). The shot as best I see it illustrated looks nearly a natural scratch(no english) or maybe even a little above the side pocket. I almost always shoot those with a little outside(to negate the throw affect) and to go just high of the side pocket. Also as suggested, soft enough to not scratch if all my calculations are completely wrong! The position zone is WAY larger up there anyway. And given my own experience with high pressure shots- I may go extreme right and aim for a foot or two above the pocket just to be sure.

Yep- I've did just what you did before!

recoveryjones said:
Thanks for your suggestion piglet.The way I illustrated the shot on the wei table might be a little off.Two other (Very Good) players both agreed a tad of left english was the way to go. I made the shot three times in a row doing so after the fact.

Your shot does come down the tangent line towards the 9 ball giving more room for error and a much larger shape zone.My shape with left english traveled across the tangent line.Once again the way I illustrated it on the wei table could be a little off as the (good) shot you suggested wasn't really on.I know about that shot you've illustrated.Thanks Rj
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for your comments.As far as I remember I used straight tops and it turned out to be a natural scratch in the side.The exact location of the balls might be a little off on the wei table, so anything anyone says about shot selections etc would be just speculation.

the bottom line that I knew a scratch was probable and I proceeded to scratch anyways.Thanks everyone for their comments,I'm going to learn from this and be more careful next time . RJ
 
mjantti said:
The position you illustrated is quite sensitive which part of the pocket you hit with the 8. On those shots, you need to have a good idea of your cut to have a precise position for the 9-ball. I would have personally tried to play the cueball slightly above the middle pocket and shoot with a speed which would not make the cueball to reach the long cushion, I'd try to play the position short in case the cueball would bounce to the middle pocket direction from the cushion.
Click to expand...

decent speed control and I would have been OK regardless.I could have stopped it 2-3 ft short of the side pocket and still made the nine.It was a shot for all the marbles and I blew it.No probs, I will do better next time.
 
recoveryjones said:
decent speed control and I would have been OK regardless.I could have stopped it 2-3 ft short of the side pocket and still made the nine.It was a shot for all the marbles and I blew it.No probs, I will do better next time.
Click to expand...

RJ, this has been a really good thread. If there's a moral of the story, it's this:

1) You need to be really committed to your shot planning, and all of it must be done before you get over the cue ball.
2) No matter how dedicated you are to planning your shots carefully, you will occasionally realize whle you're over the cue ball that your plan is an inferior one.
3) When you realize that a new plan is needed, you must start the shot planning process all over again.

I really like the fact that the formation of, quality of, and attempted execution of your plan were all brought under scrutiny in ths thread. A good reminder for all of us about how we must go about our business over the green felt!
 
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Thanks SJM, Your summary is most excellent.

I've set out to challenge my game by playing any of the A level players(or higher) in my pool hall for cash and table.I spent the last year in hard practice doing countless drills to improve.Shooting drills is one thing, playing under pressure against quality competition is something I have to get more acclimitized to.I've been more of a tournament player than a money player.

Yesterday I played this strong player and came back from 2-4 and 0-4 to win both sets 5-4.I finished the deal in those sets when I had to.We then doubled up and I gave 2 games away and lost, breaking even.I haven't walked away with the cash in the past two days, however, playing this strong competition will no doubt improve my game.RJ
 
recoveryjones said:
decent speed control and I would have been OK regardless.I could have stopped it 2-3 ft short of the side pocket and still made the nine.It was a shot for all the marbles and I blew it.No probs, I will do better next time.
Click to expand...

Normally, I would have left some angle on the 9. Admitted, if the situation is hill-hill, I'd prefer as easy 9-ball as possible. You don't want to leave a tough match ball in any game...
 
recoveryjones said:
decent speed control and I would have been OK regardless.I could have stopped it 2-3 ft short of the side pocket and still made the nine.It was a shot for all the marbles and I blew it.No probs, I will do better next time.
Click to expand...

The shot as diagramed is one of Hennings standard pots in the Pro Book. One note that he makes wrt the shot is 'DO NOT HIT THE SECOND RAIL'. His point is that if you get used to NOT using the second rail for shape, the scratch is taken out of the shot entirely. Basically saying that Henning agrees with the above comment that speed control is vital for this shot.

Dave
 
Thanks Dave, I have the Pro Book and have read through it once.I guess I didn't absorb everything..LOL.I"ll give it another read.

I'm starting to find the shape lines more and more, however, more often then not when I fail to get posistion, speed control is a factor.I heard that great players try to stop the ball on an exact spot.I guess I've been too lazy.Must bear down to get to the next level.RJ
 
Damn, That shot is right out of Buddy Hall's clock system.

12 o'clock takes it to the side pocket. 1 o'clock takes it a diamond past, 11 a diamond short and 10 almost straight back.

The 8 was routine - speed would have kept the CB in the center.

But, face it, you just chocked. LOL. You were already celebrating your sure win.

And on the bright side I put SJM's advice into practice and it really has improved my game. And it showed last night during my APA 8-ball league match that I won 5-1. And that will probably be my last APA 8-ball game as I just do not like their format. Not much of a team concept there.

Jake
 
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LOL....As well as having "The Pro Book", I also have Buddy Hall's clock system video.Twelve O'clock is what I put on the cue ball and yes Buddy was right on, it did take me right to the side pocket.

I set up that shot and hit it 3 times afterwards at 11 O'clock and got shape everytime.Why do I aquire books and videos and don't learn..LOL
 
jjinfla said:
...And on the bright side I put SJM's advice into practice and it really has improved my game. And it showed last night during my APA 8-ball league match that I won 5-1...
Click to expand...

Nice to hear, Jake, but remember, all I did was REMIND you about something you already knew. If you've managed to improve your preshot routine and to, thereby, raise your level of commitment to planning your shots in 8-ball, give yourself all the credit.
 
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