Through the ball or play the throw

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

When using left/right do you play the throw or play the OB? Is there one good aiming method for all left/right?

I’ve found on a straighter shot it works better to aim at the OB where my tip is on the CB. Essentially aiming through the ball. But on a tighter cut I’ll aim for the throw instead of aiming through a point outside the OB(if that makes sense). Am I doing this incorrectly? Should I just stick to one method or do others incorporate more than one method on shots with left/right? Which method(s) work best for you?

 

[Tennesseejoe]

This is a simple question, but there are too many variables ( distances, humidity, elevation of the cue, speed, etc.), to give a quick answer unless the answer is: play it by feel.

 

[mikemosconi]

There are so many variables that can affect the correct OB contact point when using side on the CB that I think that the best answer is simply experience.

 

[gregcantrall]

I do the calculation with multiple factors. The weight given each element requires practice practice practice. I strive to learn what effect variation from center will yield. It might be curve it might be throw it might be a hop or skip or jump. All the factors of the equation are given to the computer. Then I decide if I can do that. The cloth the humidity the balls are all variation of materials and then the clean or dirty the pristine or neglected. Uh yeah a real simple answer.

Rail first practice gives the clearest view of the effect of a off center strike. Well rail effect which is a huge factor in some equation s. My Kicks Like A Mule practice is a good place to start.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

Fair enough so far. I don’t really know any systems on right/left. Just explained the best I could how I generally aim them. Didn’t know if anybody used just one system for all left/right shots because the same aiming process never seems to work on every shot using left/right. Looks like others feel about the same on it.

 

[straightline]

I'm still at a two stage approach. BHE until you need more speed. Then it's BHE at the object ball instead. The aim point is close to the english point on the rock. Needs lots of refinement beyond that.

 

[The_JV]

When using left/right do you play the throw or play the OB? Is there one good aiming method for all left/right?

I’ve found on a straighter shot it works better to aim at the OB where my tip is on the CB. Essentially aiming through the ball. But on a tighter cut I’ll aim for the throw instead of aiming through a point outside the OB(if that makes sense). Am I doing this incorrectly? Should I just stick to one method or do others incorporate more than one method on shots with left/right? Which method(s) work best for you?

Forgive me..., on only my first coffee.

So you seem to be asking about aiming while using either left/right english. Then speak of straighter shots without throw compensation but blend it with tighter cuts with throw adjustment.

Just so we're on the same page. 'Spin induced throw' (CB english) will alter the OB path from 'zero english' aim, regardless of the amount of cut. 'Cut induced throw' will alter the OB path from the geometric angle based purely on CB/OB contact. The amount of 'CIT' is dependent on the severity of the cut.

I thought you were initially asking about aiming with 'SIT', but I got confused as I continued to read. ...again, first coffee

I wish I could give you an answer as to some trick or system. You really do seem to be one of the few wanting to actually gain something from AZB. Unfortunately I'm one of those players that attempts to use everything I can when moving the CB around and have been doing so for a long time, so if I do use some level of method it's become automatic. ...and as others have already stated. There's a on of variables that effect how to aim with spin. Most of them environmental.

My advice... don't marry yourself to a single technique and play some straight pool with someone with experience in the game. No better game for fast tracking the understanding of pool physics and bending them to your will.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I don’t understand the original question.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Oh you are asking how to aim shots with spin? I do it by memory. When the shot “looks” right based on prior successes, I pull the trigger.

There is no system under the sun that works for spin because of all the variables that are both “shot specific” (speed, distance, elevation, amt of spin, cut angle, etc), and “equipment specific” (ball polish, cloth, stick deflection, etc).

 

[couldnthinkof01]

The only time I play for throw is on short shots where the balls are close together or swerving around a blocking ball. Intentionally trying to throw the ball.

All other shots I play with side spin, I aim like any other shot. Autopilot

 

[tim913]

I know it doesn’t make sense to many and they argue that their system is better and mine sucks .. so be it, to each their own.
I see the contact point(CP) on the OB that puts the OB into the center of the hole, no matter if it’s straight in or I have to just polish the paint on a 90 degree cut.
All my adjustments for throw, deflection(usually not a factor) are made using the CP, to center of hole, as a reference. If I need to contact the OB a little thick I choose a CP just inside the “ center of hole” contact point or the opposite if I need a thinner hit.
I need that “center to hole” contact point either as a point of aim or as a reference to adjust. The amount of adjustment would be determined by your stroke, shaft .. etc, and a lot of practice

 

[The_JV]

I know it doesn’t make sense to many and they argue that their system is better and mine sucks .. so be it, to each their own.
I see the contact point(CP) on the OB that puts the OB into the center of the hole, no matter if it’s straight in or I have to just polish the paint on a 90 degree cut.
All my adjustments for throw, deflection(usually not a factor) are made using the CP, to center of hole, as a reference. If I need to contact the OB a little thick I choose a CP just inside the “ center of hole” contact point or the opposite if I need a thinner hit.
I need that “center to hole” contact point either as a point of aim or as a reference to adjust. The amount of adjustment would be determined by your stroke, shaft .. etc, and a lot of practice

Makes sense to me

 

[SSP]

When using left/right do you play the throw or play the OB? Is there one good aiming method for all left/right?

I’ve found on a straighter shot it works better to aim at the OB where my tip is on the CB. Essentially aiming through the ball. But on a tighter cut I’ll aim for the throw instead of aiming through a point outside the OB(if that makes sense). Am I doing this incorrectly? Should I just stick to one method or do others incorporate more than one method on shots with left/right? Which method(s) work best for you?

If I am reading this correctly then it would depend on the speed of the shot, the faster you hit a cut shot the less amount of Cut Induced Throw, when shooting a slow cut shot I overcut a little bit to account for CIT.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

Forgive me..., on only my first coffee.

So you seem to be asking about aiming while using either left/right english. Then speak of straighter shots without throw compensation but blend it with tighter cuts with throw adjustment.

Just so we're on the same page. 'Spin induced throw' (CB english) will alter the OB path from 'zero english' aim, regardless of the amount of cut. 'Cut induced throw' will alter the OB path from the geometric angle based purely on CB/OB contact. The amount of 'CIT' is dependent on the severity of the cut.

I thought you were initially asking about aiming with 'SIT', but I got confused as I continued to read. ...again, first coffee

I wish I could give you an answer as to some trick or system. You really do seem to be one of the few wanting to actually gain something from AZB. Unfortunately I'm one of those players that attempts to use everything I can when moving the CB around and have been doing so for a long time, so if I do use some level of method it's become automatic. ...and as others have already stated. There's a on of variables that effect how to aim with spin. Most of them environmental.

My advice... don't marry yourself to a single technique and play some straight pool with someone with experience in the game. No better game for fast tracking the understanding of pool physics and bending them to your will.

Well what I was saying about aiming through the ball is this. Set up a straight shot OB 2ft from the pocket CB 3ft from the OB. Now if you want to force follow with top left or top right. Put your tip top left or top right on the cb and aim at the same spot on the OB as your tip is on the cb. It should go. That works really well up to a 10-15° cut. Maybe a bit more. I haven’t practiced those in a while and the angle size is only going off memory. On a slight/near straight cut you would aim center then move the aim line from there by the left/right you are putting on. So aim center. Then if you move 2 tips right move the aim point 2 tips right. Essentially aiming through the ball. And you don’t need to compensate for deflection or throw doing it this way. Try it if you don’t think so. It works. But maybe it only works with a regular wood shaft too. Not sure with LD.

That process doesn’t seem to work wellon bigger angles. At least not for me. I use a whole different process for bigger angles

After I wrote this up I realized that 1st part might not work as well on a slow hit shot. It 100% works on a medium to hard stroked shot. Not sure on a softly hit one. I’m not thinking about it on those ones.

 

[nataddrho]

When using left/right do you play the throw or play the OB? Is there one good aiming method for all left/right?

I’ve found on a straighter shot it works better to aim at the OB where my tip is on the CB. Essentially aiming through the ball. But on a tighter cut I’ll aim for the throw instead of aiming through a point outside the OB(if that makes sense). Am I doing this incorrectly? Should I just stick to one method or do others incorporate more than one method on shots with left/right? Which method(s) work best for you?

There are thousands of variables, but what laymen fail to realize is the contribution of most variables is very small.

Variables that matter in sidespin aiming:
Effective end mass of cue (squirt)
Spin-induced throw
Tip precision on cue ball
Elevation of cue stick

The rest are quite insignificant compared to the "signal noise" of the above four.

 

[Mensabum]

When using left/right do you play the throw or play the OB? Is there one good aiming method for all left/right?

I’ve found on a straighter shot it works better to aim at the OB where my tip is on the CB. Essentially aiming through the ball. But on a tighter cut I’ll aim for the throw instead of aiming through a point outside the OB(if that makes sense). Am I doing this incorrectly? Should I just stick to one method or do others incorporate more than one method on shots with left/right? Which method(s) work best for you?

Type of shaft you use, tip, stroke style, all play a part. Gotta adjust for each. Impossible to say in general terms like that. You just gotta hit a couple and see what works for the cue you're using.

 

[straightline]

There are thousands of variables, but what laymen fail to realize is the contribution of most variables is very small.

Variables that matter in sidespin aiming:
Effective end mass of cue (squirt)
Spin-induced throw
Tip precision on cue ball
Elevation of cue stick

The rest are quite insignificant compared to the "signal noise" of the above four.

Yes but the break point between make and fail is very elusive and final.

 

[nataddrho]

It is final because it is a binary outcome.

It is elusive because it is difficult to measure for every single player.

It is realistic because it has been measured using expensive equipment not available to most players. It is predictable because the physical model matches the measurements.

It is controversial because many players whom do not understand the scientific method or physics would rather dismiss it than trust it or learn more about it. In general, willfully ignorant people tend not to like letting other people be smarter than them.

 

[nataddrho]

It is like conspiracy theories. They are based on factual variables but are distorted in the range or magnitude of those variables.

For example, the government is deliberately suppressing Teslas wireless power technology that he invented a century ago for control and money. While wireless power does exist, its range falls off as the square of distance, so it isn’t feasible at any long range distance without flooding the entire RF spectrum and drowning out all communication channels.

Or, the government has secret underground bases in the desert to hide alien spaceships. While underground bunkers are possible to make, the logistics, money, and time to build in secret the size of the bases proposed is impossible to do without something being noticed financially or visually. Someone would say something. Government people are lazier than you are, they just want to go home early and cook dinner. I worked for the government and held TSSCI clearance and guarantee you nothing wild is going on. Unless you suspect that I am being sponsored to say this.

$10,000 is the maximum annual gift before it gets taxed. No it isn’t. If you gift over $17k you need only to report it to the IRS, which is then deducted from your lifetime allowance of $12 million. Only after you gift $12 million do you pay a single cent of taxes.

The value of the numbers makes a big difference.

 

[straightline]

It is final because it is a binary outcome.

It is elusive because it is difficult to measure for every single player.

It is realistic because it has been measured using expensive equipment not available to most players. It is predictable because the physical model matches the measurements.

It is controversial because many players whom do not understand the scientific method or physics would rather dismiss it than trust it or learn more about it. In general, willfully ignorant people tend not to like letting other people be smarter than them.

That's the why of the method. Zone the thing so you can shoot it.