Tight pocket tables

[BigCat]

The most hysterical thing? Both rooms have Ernesto maintain the tables, and to the same specs. Yet the players would ignore this fact.

Now that is funny!

Ray

 

[StevenPWaldon]

Point-to-point, it's 4"

IIRC, pockets are customarily measured at the gate, not the drop. Where did you take the measurement on that table?

Ray

 

[tjlmbklr]

I have been wondering this a while, since everyone plays on different equipment : What are AZBers notions of what constitutes a tight pocket? It seems like every joint has a few tables that are tight pocket tables, but a tight pocket in one pool hall might be considered a bucket in another. Opinions?

Here's a photo of one of the pockets at my local joint. They measure a hair under 4". Anyone have a tighter table you play on?

Don't forget that different tables play different even when not Shimmed (tightened). I have an Olhausen that is less then 4.5" but even before I extended the sub-rails it played tight. It was always easy to rattle if you didn't hit the heart of the pocket with speed and spin. And this isn't just my table it's all the Olhausens I've played on.

But to answer the question the Hall where I play has only one table shimmed and it is only double shimmed so it is still considered buckets in my opinion.

 

[crappoolguy]

I think even 4 is very forgiving, I think if you want to have fun making great shots, play pool. If I want to play on a tight table I play snooker.

 

[tjlmbklr]

Tight pockets arn't bad if the pocket shelf is not too deep and the rail angles are right. The wrong combination of these three variables can make a table unplayable. A friend of mine had a no name table with 4.75" pockets that would spit out any thing that touched the rail. There was no such thing as pocket speed and the sweetest run down the rail would rattle.

Sounds like my Olhausen. It was tough for me too pull the trigger in my decision to tighten them to 4.5"

 

[Tom In Cincy]

The tournament tables at California Billiards Club in Mountain View and Family Billiards in San Francisco and Hard Times in Sacramento average less than 4.25 inches. Although the tightest are in Family Billiards at just a hair over 4 inches.

Ernesto Dominguez does the table at Family and Hard Times, not sure who does the tables now at California Billiards.

But, if you like to compete on 'tigth pocketed tables'... come to Northern California.

 

[tjlmbklr]

you mean that table over next the the entrance door next to where they put that coin table? i think thats a brunswick. that thing has nasty tight pockets.

for everyone else, by poolroom, i think he means marietta billiard club that johny and kim own now.

also olhausen's have that deep shelf like diamonds that make the pockets alittle hard to play.

This answers my question about my tables pockets. Any idea what is a deep shelf and what is standard?

 

[socks]

This answers my question about my tables pockets. Any idea what is a deep shelf and what is standard?

while the WPA does have a guideline, its very loose.

http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_spec

9. Pocket Openings and Measurements

Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other - where the nose of the cushion changes direction - to the vertical cut of the slate pocket cut. Shelf includes bevel.

Corner Pocket Shelf: between 1 [2.54 cm] and 2.25 inches [5.715 cm]
Side Pocket Shelf: between 0 and .375 inches [.9525 cm]

unfortunatly, there is no standard. it has been a topic of discusion around here for awhile.

 

[Fatboy]

you mean that table over next the the entrance door next to where they put that coin table? i think thats a brunswick. that thing has nasty tight pockets.

for everyone else, by poolroom, i think he means marietta billiard club that johny and kim own now.

QUOTE]


the table by the door across from the billiard control desk WAS a Gandy they sold 2 of them off, kim told me about that. Now the table there is a Olhausen from Johnnys house, he had it at home for 3 or 4 years, last I heard its for sale, the skirts are custom for Johnny with scorpions engraved etc on it. it isnt my business to say how much etc. there is an empty space next to johnnys table.

the toughest table there is table 4 it is brutal, its kims and Johnnys favorite table, Johnny offered SVB to play there-no word yet on the match, it would be great and I hope its gonna happen, SVB is NOT dodging him its just a schedual thing, i believe the game will happen and will be close, I dont know who is gonna win that game.


I dont like 4" pockets, I like bigger pockets I can cheat the pocket with and build angles. 4 5/8" is cool, 5.25" is just too big and sloppy.

Hollywood Billiards tables are brutal, Ernesto did them all at around 4" with 45 degree pocket facings which makes them even tougher, 53 degrees is the standars Burnswick measurement(to the best of my recollation) Also the room had a open wood sand blasted roof(exactly the same as my house) and open brick walls(not like my house) and its humid in there often(like my house) they keep the doors open most of the time and that area is a humid area anyway, in LA some areas have dryer air than others, hollywood billiards isnt in a dry area, the 101 freeway between the 2 valleys runs is right next to it. I couldnt figure it out for the longest time why the tables are so wet there then I noticed the ceiling-same as mine and my house is awalys wet, so that got me interested, unsealed brick holds water, the area is wet, so the tables there are wet, and being as tough as they are there is no shot at running a 5 pack. I think I heard the most racks run at the Swanee 2 weeks ago was 3, Its a great room, go anywhere else and its easy to play. their food is also the best of any pool room ever, its all homemade-I have been in the kitchen, not a microwave heat and eat joint.

 

[av84fun]

Wow. That's insanely deep.

DON'T change them! I have an Ohlausen with 4.75 corners but DEEP shelves. Not as deep as yours but deep. In addition, the facing pads are pretty hard....SO, the pockets spit out a LOT of shots like you wouldn't believe.

It's called the Olhausen Rattle and people who I have over to play just can't get used to that issue and rattle plenty of shots!!!

(-:

 

[chevybob20]

Sounds like my Olhausen. It was tough for me too pull the trigger in my decision to tighten them to 4.5"

How did it play after you tightened the pockets? Did you extend the subrails? I'm starting to lean toward reducing mine to 4.5 inches. I know that my Olhausen will reject balls with the same frequency as the 4.5 inch Diamond table at the pool hall. I'm afraid it would make the table unplayable. The shelf on my Olhausen is deeper than the Diamond. I measured them with a buddy after a discussion on why my table plays so tough with 5" pockets. We measured all the table brands we could find in town.

 

[chevybob20]

DON'T change them! I have an Ohlausen with 4.75 corners but DEEP shelves. Not as deep as yours but deep. In addition, the facing pads are pretty hard....SO, the pockets spit out a LOT of shots like you wouldn't believe.

It's called the Olhausen Rattle and people who I have over to play just can't get used to that issue and rattle plenty of shots!!!

(-:

I didn't see this before my last post. Did you shim or did you add to the subrail and replace the rubber? We also call it the "Olhausen Rattle". It's amazing how little the shot is off before it happens. Don't even think of kissing the rail with speed.

 

[Cuebacca]

Meh, 4", those are buckets. I decided to tighten my pockets down to 2". Now all shots must be jumped in!

 

[DarkArtist]

I play at Hollywood Billiards. A couple weeks ago I measured a corner pocket at 4.0" at the tittie. Placing two balls side-by-side actually looks tighter on HB's tables than in these photos.

I had a couple phone conversations with Eddie Robins last Christmas, and he thought it was very bad that I practiced on tight pockets. He said I wouldn't be able to let out my game completely because I'd always be compensating for the tight pocket.

 

[Derek]

My stock Connelly 9-footer is 4.5" at the mouth, 4.125" in the throat, and 1.75" along the shelf (if I measured that right). A very noticeable difference over the buckets on my old table. The longer shelf than my previous table is the definite contributor to plenty of missed shots while getting used to the Connelly. I was frustrated at first, but now glad it came that way and wouldn't want it any tighter (at least until I can afford a Diamond).

The sides are also not real generous with the angle they have been cut at.

 

[socks]

you mean that table over next the the entrance door next to where they put that coin table? i think thats a brunswick. that thing has nasty tight pockets.

for everyone else, by poolroom, i think he means marietta billiard club that johny and kim own now.

the table by the door across from the billiard control desk WAS a Gandy they sold 2 of them off, kim told me about that. Now the table there is a Olhausen from Johnnys house, he had it at home for 3 or 4 years, last I heard its for sale, the skirts are custom for Johnny with scorpions engraved etc on it. it isnt my business to say how much etc. there is an empty space next to johnnys table.

the toughest table there is table 4 it is brutal, its kims and Johnnys favorite table, Johnny offered SVB to play there-no word yet on the match, it would be great and I hope its gonna happen, SVB is NOT dodging him its just a schedual thing, i believe the game will happen and will be close, I dont know who is gonna win that game.

yeah i think its table 4 i'm talkin about. when you walk in the door, theres johny's table, then that space (about 2-3 weeks ago it was filled in with a bar box, i could have those reversed, been busy havent been over there for acouple few weeks) then the next table (3rd in from the door) or the 4th one in is the one i'm talking about. has tripple shim pockets just barely wider than 1 ball and is nasty tight.

 

[tjlmbklr]

How did it play after you tightened the pockets? Did you extend the subrails? I'm starting to lean toward reducing mine to 4.5 inches. I know that my Olhausen will reject balls with the same frequency as the 4.5 inch Diamond table at the pool hall. I'm afraid it would make the table unplayable. The shelf on my Olhausen is deeper than the Diamond. I measured them with a buddy after a discussion on why my table plays so tough with 5" pockets. We measured all the table brands we could find in town.

They are playable, but if you stroke a shot down the rail the ball best not touch the rail or else RATTLE RATTLE! And yes i had the sub-rails extended as apposed to shimmed. I'll try to post picture tomorrow.

 

[Josh Palmer]

Richard Burns has a Diamond that is shimmed down to 3.5 inches. He practices on that, and then runs out like water on anything else. I like tight pockets, but 4.25 is best for playing pool. The same 3 7/8 or 4" pocket plays crappy when you are playing straight pool.. you can't create angles, you just have to get what you get... almost like playing on a bar box... just cinch the ball and take the next shot. A practice table at home? I would love to have a table with 4" pockets... But playing in a tournament.. Table 1 at Family can be brutal.

 

[PoolBum]

It's true. A lot of good places in California have nice tight pockets.

Funny story: I knew a regular at Hollywood Billiards who preferred to play one-pocket. However, the action there was dismal at best. All the real one-pocket action was in Santa Monica at the House of Billiards. He went once and lost, or maybe broke even at best. He never returned. When I asked why he wouldn't go back, he complained night and day about the buckets for pockets, rails that slide, the damp Santa Monica air, and how anybody can make a ball on those tables. After all, Hollywood Billiards has the tightest tables!

Now, I started playing pool at the House of Billiards in Santa Monica. When I moved to West Hollywood and became friend with the management at Hollywood Billiards, I made that my new home. And I realized they had the identically cut/shaped pockets.

So on my next trip to the House of Billiards I'm talking with some of the rail birds about this guy, and pocket sizes. And when I mention that Hollywood Billiards has tight pocket tables as well, not a *single* one of them would acknowledge it. They all claimed Hollywood has buckets for pockets, and nothing is tighter than tables 11-13 at House of Billiards.

The most hysterical thing? Both rooms have Ernesto maintain the tables, and to the same specs. Yet the players would ignore this fact.

Remembering those conversations is actually what made me post. Not only do people have differing views of what is tight, but when two tables are cut identically they still have to argue!

Tables 1, 10, and 11-13 at House of Billiards all have 3 7/8" pockets. The tables at Hollywood Billiards may have slightly larger pockets, but certainly no wider than 4", I would think. I typically practice/play on table 1 at HOB (I only play 9-ball), where the pockets accept the balls slightly better, IMO, than tables 11-13 in front, where everyone usually plays 1-hole. Those tables are definitely not easier than the tables at Hollywood. I think the front tables at Hollywood play similar to table 1 at HOB, but some of the tables toward the back on the first floor definitely seem to me to play easier (not sure if the pockets are bigger, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are).

 

[Fatboy]

I was told by Mark (cant remember his last name) who is the East Coasts equilivant of Ernesto, a top level table fitter or mechnic told me Brunswick origonal dimensions for a pocket opening was 52(maybe 53) degrees by 13 degrees for the opening and pocket facings from the slate bed respectivaly. I played on a table with those exact dimensions he just set up the points were 4" spot on. It played alot easier that a Diamond, even considering it was new cloth the balls went in the hole alot nicer and when you missed it wasnt a "gaffed up pocket spitting the ball out" to quote Mark. I have to agree, the missed shots werent as irradic as a Diamond.

The points on a Diamond wont get you as often as the pocket facing, Something about the rubber and angle of the pocket facing and deep shelfs make for funny misses. Mark is a good player and old school guy who is a diehard B-Wick guy, personally I like how diamonds are built and play but I like the pocket specs he used which he said were B-Wick much better than what diamond is using. Diamond claims that you can see 40% of the OB if its the whole way in the pocket, which is a pile of BS, what if i need to see 46% to do what I need to do, it just gives up 10% to the guy who missed since I can only see 40% when a ball is buried deep in the pocket. 50% of the ob is the proper depth for a shelf that way it dosent give the guy who missed the ball a 10% edge. I like their tables and own one but they need to be tweeked a little, and Greg is doing that good things are gonna happen. Its a real complex thing to build tables, mass produce them and still make money, I learned alot this past year about that.