Tight pocket tables
- Thread starter StevenPWaldon
- Start date
chevybob20 said:
No, the table was built that way...which I THINK is characteristic of Ohlausens. In addition to the deep shelf, the facings are angled in fairly steeply (because of the wide mouth) and so when you hit the hard facing pad, the ball is directed generally toward the OTHER facing pad and not into the pocket is is the case with "straight cut" facings.
Shoot hard at those suckers and it's like a damn pin ball machine!
No doubt, when shots are relatively perpendicular to the mouth of the pocket, the width makes the shots much easier but the majority of shots are at such an angle that one point or the other intrudes into the mouth opening requiring the shot to contact the facing and THAT'S where the fun begins.
In general, the table is not NEARLY as "loose" as the mouth opening makes people think.
I once wrote a note and put it in a sealed envelope when a friend came over to play for the first time. After a race to 9, we opened the envelope and it said "You will rattle at least 4 corner pocket shots."
He rattled 5! I won! He is a ball better than me.
FUN!!!!!!!
(-:
DarkArtist said:
I agree with Eddie Robins. Playing on super tight pockets prevents you from practicing cheating the pocket shape...and fairly hard shots often required for shape in normal tournament conditions.
I don't see golfers putting into small holes...or basketball players shooting into small hoops.
I would guess that the vast majority of pro tournaments are played on 4.25-4.5 pockets and I say practice on what you will have to play on for real.
Regards,
Jim
StevenPWaldon said:
Right. The CENTERLINE through the balls is not touching the points so clearly, the points are less than 4.5.
But they don't APPEAR to be 4 inches either. And as others have pointed out, the pocket size is generally quoted as the distance between the points, not where the balls would drop off the shelf.
But that points out how mouth width is over-rated in terms of determining how hard the pockets play. The depth of the shelf, the angle of the facing and the hardness of the facing pads all play a critical role in how balls will drop or not drop.
Regards,
Jim
It has everything to do with playability (as has been alluded to several times already) and not so much with the tightness of the pocket. Ive played on tables where you can hit it virtually perfect down the rail and ball will rattle, it just simply shouldn't do that. And the table isnt that tight, it just doesnt play that good. I play at hard times, on table 1 which is the tightest table in the house, and I play on the tables at hollywood, and the ball falls if you hit the inner face of the pocket. So it isnt so much the tightness of the table, its how it plays. I can run out on tight pocket tables, I cant run out (and dont expect myself to runout) on tables that dont play.....true. And as far as the comparison to basketball and golf. I hear you dude, I wish we had ONE yes ONE, standardized pocket size that all tables came in, but as it stands this is just one of the variables that we as pool players deal with. I like to try and play on all different types of tables, it is being able to play well in all different conditions that makes one an all around good player. And to answer the question, 4.25 inch pockets I think are perfect, and 4 inch flat pockets play well too.
av84fun said:
Makes sense to me, Jim.
After speaking to Eddie, I went to a different pool hall with pockets I would estimate to be around 4.5". I play 14.1 almost exclusively and I was enjoying the latitude these wider pockets gave me, and not just for long shots, but the way they allowed me to be more creative with back and forth behind the rack maneuvering by cheating the pocket.
The half inch difference in pocket width actually seemed to change the nature of the game quite a bit.
Fatboy said:
Their cobb salad is really good, too! I'm a big fan of the food there as well as the full bar with a few dozen different beers on tap. They have one of the best pool hall staffs around, and the manager Jim Burt can definitely shoot and run out on their tight pocket tables.
If anyone's in the area and hasn't stopped by yet, I highly recommend. Just avoid the joint on Sundays during football season if you value your sanity.
If anyone's in the area and hasn't stopped by yet, I highly recommend. Just avoid the joint on Sundays during football season if you value your sanity.
DarkArtist said:
Removing shims
I had the same conversation with Eddie about three years ago. Then I had my GCIII tripleshimmed, he told me to remove because I needed to be able to shoot with confidence. I did and he was right, I removed the shims and my 1P game has improved drastically. Thanks again Eddie!
DarkArtist said:
I had the same conversation with Eddie about three years ago. Then I had my GCIII tripleshimmed, he told me to remove because I needed to be able to shoot with confidence. I did and he was right, I removed the shims and my 1P game has improved drastically. Thanks again Eddie!
Virtually all of the "Dominguez Family" maintained equipment has 4.25" or smaller pockets.
Here is a short list:
Family Billiards - San Francisco
Billiards Palacade - San Francisco
Hard Times - Sacramento
Hollywood Billiards - Los Angeles
Hard Times Billiards - Bellflower
House of Billiards - Santa Monica
IMO, tight tables are best for competition, especially with new cloth, but not practice. Hitting balls on tough equipment daily is not confidence inspiring.
Someone mentioned the size of pockets in most pro-tournaments. Well, it can vary quite a bit. As far as I know, WPBA has a standard, way to big IMO, but the Men's it depends a lot on who the table sponsor/provider is.
Diamonds pockets are very consistent. Brunswicks, who the hell knows if you are getting a tournament or regular spec Metro until you get there. Most other brands, BUCKETS!
Diamond tables have the best pocket specs out there. They make you play honest.
Here is a short list:
Family Billiards - San Francisco
Billiards Palacade - San Francisco
Hard Times - Sacramento
Hollywood Billiards - Los Angeles
Hard Times Billiards - Bellflower
House of Billiards - Santa Monica
IMO, tight tables are best for competition, especially with new cloth, but not practice. Hitting balls on tough equipment daily is not confidence inspiring.
Someone mentioned the size of pockets in most pro-tournaments. Well, it can vary quite a bit. As far as I know, WPBA has a standard, way to big IMO, but the Men's it depends a lot on who the table sponsor/provider is.
Diamonds pockets are very consistent. Brunswicks, who the hell knows if you are getting a tournament or regular spec Metro until you get there. Most other brands, BUCKETS!
Diamond tables have the best pocket specs out there. They make you play honest.
Tight Pockets
Ernesto Dominguez; Some of his work
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=16773
Ernesto Dominguez; Some of his work
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=16773
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BPG24
Banned
Not going to read the whole thread but i got to play on a pro cut Diamond that was triple shimmed and it was by far the toughest table I have ever played on in my whole life. I have played 9 ball on a few 10' Snooker tables and they were not near as tough as the table i speak of. It was downright frusterating to play on that Diamond. Not sure what size the shims were, but they were big enough that it made pocketing balls way more difficult than your average could deal with.. After playing on it for about 4 hours, i went to another pool room where they have mostly all CC3's with Simonis and i didn't miss a ball for most of the night.
CrownCityCorey said:
That's exactly what Eddie told me.
Ernesto and Oscar also maintain the tables at Mr. Lucky's in Torrance, CA. I believe they have seven 9ft GCs in the room. I think the two nearest the bar are 4.0" while the rest might be 4.5". I can definitely feel the difference!
av84fun said:
I disagree; you would be surprised how much you can still cheat the pockets on a very tight table. Also how much practicing cheating the pocket does one really need; whatever or however big the pockets are is indicative of how much one can cheat the pocket. I do not really think that it takes practice to know or do this. As fare as the pockets go, there is no real adjustment going from a table that is tight to a table that has bigger pocket, except that you are now shooting into the ocean. Now there is an adjustment going from big pockets to small pockets. By the way, basketball players do practice shooting into smaller hoops.
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T411 said:
Well said, and agreed.
Patrick Johnson said:
I wish I was at home. I'd take and post a picture of my table with balls in the jaws or rather two balls trying to be in the jaws. My table measures 4" straight across at the edge of the titties. That pic looks like you might be measuring them at the drop point, it just doesn't quite look tighter than 4". There's a couple of tables in Yucaipa Ca, that are 3 7/8". Those are the tightest tables I've ever seen in the states and at that point it does get to where there are some shots that even if hit perfect won't go.
i think
the tighter the pockets the better i hate playing on buckets where the guy missed buy 4 inches and it still goes in
the tighter the pockets the better i hate playing on buckets where the guy missed buy 4 inches and it still goes in
T411 said:
You are CORRECT, and I agree 100%, but everyone has their opinion. I have stated mine on this topic many times. Some people just can't shoot on tight pockets, so they of course will disagree. My table was set up be Ernesto and plays great. And, 4" pockets CAN be cheated......
