Tight pockets are NOT good for the game!

The whole “this isn’t fun because I suck” is an American one, and probably a lower demographic one as well. Even in the US people who play golf have fun despite not being able to play under par. Trap-shooting 20/20 every time is difficult, and they don’t throw larger clays for beginners.

Things don’t need to be easy to be fun, and the ones who complain may not be the ones to cater too.

7 foot paid bar boxes screwed up pool in this country because it created weakened expectations for profit.
The examples you listed are known for being difficult. Golf in particular. People expect to suck at golf.

People don't expect to suck at pool, even as total beginners/casual players, but they show up at a pool room with pro-cut 9' Diamonds and look like fools because they can't make a ball. But maybe in the past they played decently on a 7' Valley. So they get turned off by the bad experience and don't come back.

Perhaps pool had a reputation for being a tougher game way back in the day when everyone played on 10'ers or even just before bar boxes were everywhere, and that meant people had more patience to learn how to play properly. But pool rooms that don't explicitly cater to serious players being mostly or fully stocked with 9' tables with 4.5" or smaller pockets aren't doing the game any favors IMO.
 
Naturally, new players can be encouraged with slightly more forgiving equipment, but there should be access to increasingly more difficult equipment, giving an ability to see progress, or how the pros do it.
 
Agreed. The more I hear people in the pool hall whine about needing tighter pockets, the harder it gets to shut up. The fact is, I know these peoples games and they are by far, not able to run out regularly on ANY kind of pool table. Running 2 balls on a tight table should not be more prestigeous than running 2 racks on a 4.75 inch table, but somehow that's what these people think.

Most people in a pool hall are what I call "5 hangers". They can make 5 balls if they are well spread out and preferably close to the pockets, somewhat regularly. Now, they can do this on a tight table too, because it's not much harder to do. There is no tricky position or awkwardly placed balls and little need for big power. When they see players, better than themselves, struggle to get out from a (tricky) 5 ball out on the same table where they can put down the 5 hangers, they get the wrong idea about their own skill. On a table where a better player than the "5 hanger" player may struggle to get out, what happens is that the skill gap actually gets smaller between such a player and the 5 hanger, so results will be more random, not less. Usually the worse player will still lose, but they'll feel more involved, since they're not getting ran out on. Some of the better players power and knowledge gets eliminated due to certain shots no longer being viable, or shots that would be good on other tables staying up. This is especially magnified with deep shelf pockets, where a missed ball frequently gets left hanging in the pocket. After a while people will adjust to this and a skill gap may be reestablished, but not necessarily. Especially if the better player is a naturally more aggressive type. The skill gap will be pushed up the pool hierachy and may now exist between for instance the high 600 to low 700 players and those slightly below, rather than lower down. So there are few blowout matches until you get to this level.
ha. I love the term '5 hanger banger'. I once called a buddy that and as an sl6 he was offended. So I bet him our table time and a beer that he couldn't beat the 6ball ghost (makes off the break spot) in a race to 5. He lost...as a 5 hanger banger should. Not a huge surprise, but he complains about 'bucket pockets'.

4.5" are my fav size. Not quite buckets, but not tight either. Happy middle.
 
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ha. I love the term '5 hanger banger'. I once called a buddy that and as an sl6 he was offended. So I bet him our table time and a beer that he couldn't beat the 6ball ghost (makes off the break spot) in a race to 5. He lost...as a 5 hanger banger should. Not a huge surprise, but he complains about 'bucket pockets'.

4.5" are my fav size. Not quite buckets, but not tight either. Happy middle.
Pool is deceptively hard. If you are 90% to make a shot, you are 53% to make six, 43% to make 8, and 39% to make 9. I like 4.5" pockets, if I'm shooting well i can play the game like it should be played. Much tighter than that and the game becomes a slog.
 
My problem with tight pockets is the effect on bankshots. Admittedly, I can be a sloppy bank shooter at times and hate the thought of narrow opening faced pockets. A table less than 41/2 inches and you really gotta sneak 'em by. Not many attempt hard banks on a tight table. Dead banks are the preference on tighty tables.
 
My problem with tight pockets is the effect on bankshots. Admittedly, I can be a sloppy bank shooter at times and hate the thought of narrow opening faced pockets. A table less than 41/2 inches and you really gotta sneak 'em by. Not many attempt hard banks on a tight table. Dead banks are the preference on tighty tables.
Also, tight pockets are brutal for 14.1 play, even for skilled 14.1 players. It comes to a point that it virtually takes away any chance of calling a shot out of the pack or cheating the pocket in order to make a ball or to get proper shape on your next shot.
 
My problem with tight pockets is the effect on bankshots. Admittedly, I can be a sloppy bank shooter at times and hate the thought of narrow opening faced pockets. A table less than 41/2 inches and you really gotta sneak 'em by. Not many attempt hard banks on a tight table. Dead banks are the preference on tighty tables.
I am playing on a table that's 4.125 corners. No issue banking. Yes, banks are easier on bigger pockets. Yes, running out is easier on bigger pockets. Just learn to play better... Halls should cater to all levels. That is the part I agree with. There should be pathways to progress, and the opportunity to move onto the pro -level equipment.
Every sport I can think of has steps up... whether it's equipment, rule alterations or other aspects that change between the casual, amateur and top level.
Like it's been mentioned before, yes cater to new players, give the casual player what they want, but allow the amateur the steps to see progress and encourage them to build their skill and improve (while also understanding how difficult it is at the top)...
 
I am playing on a table that's 4.125 corners. No issue banking. Yes, banks are easier on bigger pockets. Yes, running out is easier on bigger pockets. Just learn to play better... Halls should cater to all levels. That is the part I agree with. There should be pathways to progress, and the opportunity to move onto the pro -level equipment.
Every sport I can think of has steps up... whether it's equipment, rule alterations or other aspects that change between the casual, amateur and top level.
Like it's been mentioned before, yes cater to new players, give the casual player what they want, but allow the amateur the steps to see progress and encourage them to build their skill and improve (while also understanding how difficult it is at the top)...
lol, tnx for the beat down. 😆
Maybe you are used to banking on your 4.125 table.
I have seen many PRO's take a pass at a bankshot on a tight table with some good angle.
Feel free to post one if you like.
 
lol, tnx for the beat down. 😆
Maybe you are used to banking on your 4.125 table.
I have seen many PRO's take a pass at a bankshot on a tight table with some good angle.
Feel free to post one if you like.
Wasn't meaning to take a shot directly at you buddy! Absolutely not my intention.
This thread seems unnecesarily negative toward tighter pockets, or the difference between top-flight and bar-banging casual players.
It's shot selection. Relative to moment, how the particular table plays, who the player is playing and their understanding at that moment... In short, personal preference based on subjective, situational context.
I can Dm you some random IG trash of some kicks/banks on my usual practice table, not sure how to post video on the thread directly as I don't use YT.
 
And apparently it makes them all dress with under armor shirts and tacky pool jerseys
hahahaha I love and hate this. It's not a particularly athletic sport, so I am not sure about all the technical themed garbage clothing. But for team events, and even on a personal level, I think a standard should be set.
 
Bangers want tight pockets for the same reason they play "call shot"
Is it only bangers asking for tighter pockets or 'Call shot'?
(I am undecided on call shot in 9ball, I think as it is, that it allows for creative and thoughtful shot-making - 10-ball is a 'call shot' game only in my eyes)
They think that if the game is harder, they are automatically better somehow.
I definitely agree with you here, I've met a few people here in Shanghai (mostly Americans) who love talking up their game, and then blame anything except themselves when they don't cut the mustard. Is the table too hard for everyone? Or is it just too hard for the person taking the L's...
 
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okay flake and drun,

i give up are you from china or scotland?

my best guess is scotland even though you say china
 
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okay flake and drun,

i give up are you from china or scotland?

my best guess is scotland
Scotland is certainly closer. Not English before you put that 'ick on me :ROFLMAO:

I think this thread has established that tighter pockets are not bad for the game, but poorly managed halls that do not facilitate their customers are...
There is no place for the casual players taking a girl on a date, or bangers who fancy a bash after a beer, and there is not suitable opportunities to drive progression from amateur players to intermediate ones.
 
Is it only bangers asking for tighter pockets or 'Call shot'?
No, professionals have good reason to expect more challenging equipment.
(I am undecided on call shot in 9ball, I think as it is, that it allows for creative and thoughtful shot-making - 10-ball is a 'call shot' game only in my eyes)
I was referring to "bar rules" and people who think calling the ball and pocket is not enough, and every little nuance of a shot must be called. Such as touching another ball on its way to the pocket.
 
No, professionals have good reason to expect more challenging equipment.

I was referring to "bar rules" and people who think calling the ball and pocket is not enough, and every little nuance of a shot must be called. Such as touching another ball on its way to the pocket.
I also think amateurs, intermediates and anyone enthusiastic about improving have the same right and expectation.

I see what you are saying about the other point now :)
 
I also think amateurs, intermediates and anyone enthusiastic about improving have the same right and expectation.
Absolutely! Especially when they're buying their own tables.
As for what they can expect at their local venues, they will have to settle for what they have.
A pool hall with a mix of both is ideal.
Bars are going to cater to the bangers, serious pool players are a bad investment for them.
 
I am playing on a table that's 4.125 corners. No issue banking. Yes, banks are easier on bigger pockets. Yes, running out is easier on bigger pockets. Just learn to play better... Halls should cater to all levels. That is the part I agree with. There should be pathways to progress, and the opportunity to move onto the pro -level equipment.
Every sport I can think of has steps up... whether it's equipment, rule alterations or other aspects that change between the casual, amateur and top level.
Like it's been mentioned before, yes cater to new players, give the casual player what they want, but allow the amateur the steps to see progress and encourage them to build their skill and improve (while also understanding how difficult it is at the top)...
There are deep shelf tables where bank shots that touch the rail or even front of the pocket but otherwise clean won't fall
 
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