Tightening pockets....AND extending shelf?

hdgis1

hdgis1

New member
As you all may have figured out, I am trying to ensure the best playing table I can have. Sorry for the continued questions! :grin: I have decided to have pockets tightened to 4.25 by extending subrails. Got a mechanic to do these things and have seen some of his work and am satisfied he knows what he is doing.

He asked what game I play primarily and I told him 1hole. He suggested I also extend the shelf a bit to make things real nice. The table is a GC 3. Does just doing the pockets accomplish anything or would extending the shelf help things as well? I guess you all know that the slates are rounded on GC so we are really just talking about extending them to the extent that they are no longer rounded. He says he has a Diamond pocket pattern to use once (bondo or plumbers stuff) is dry. Hope all that makes sense!:confused:

Chris
 
hdgis1 said:
As you all may have figured out, I am trying to ensure the best playing table I can have. Sorry for the continued questions! :grin: I have decided to have pockets tightened to 4.25 by extending subrails. Got a mechanic to do these things and have seen some of his work and am satisfied he knows what he is doing.

He asked what game I play primarily and I told him 1hole. He suggested I also extend the shelf a bit to make things real nice. The table is a GC 3. Does just doing the pockets accomplish anything or would extending the shelf help things as well? I guess you all know that the slates are rounded on GC so we are really just talking about extending them to the extent that they are no longer rounded. He says he has a Diamond pocket pattern to use once (bondo or plumbers stuff) is dry. Hope all that makes sense!:confused:

Chris
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Call me, 702-927-5689
 
I would like to hear the reasoning behind the decision making process on this. I would also like to hear the OP's opinion of the "worth" of the work if he decides to extend the shelf.

I too am thinking of having it done by a qualified mechanic when I start work on my Centennial this year.

Thanks in advance.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 
chevybob20 said:
I would like to hear the reasoning behind the decision making process on this. I would also like to hear the OP's opinion of the "worth" of the work if he decides to extend the shelf.

I too am thinking of having it done by a qualified mechanic when I start work on my Centennial this year.

Thanks in advance.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Feel free to call me then:grin:
 
The idea was to create a table that was a good one pocket table by allowing the ball to sit deeper in the throat. Since it is a GC III the pocket shelves are rounded from top to bottom, thus not alllowing the ball to sit hidden. If I understood Glenn correctly, the jist of it is its not really necessary to do. (Insert a whole bunch of stuff about tangents and other math related stuff:confused:)

Of more import is the relation of the rail nose to the bed (1 9/16) and the correct angle of the end of the rail (141) and the down cut angle of the same end (13).

I guess I was under the impression that by replacing the rubber with the correct profile (in this case from superspeeds to Artemis K-55's) all would be good in table land. However, it seems that this isnt quite enough as the nose height is still not ideal. In order to make it ideal you add some amount of wood to the face of the subrail and recut a (24?) degree bevel. As for angles, Glenn did mention to make sure that all angles are the same. It seems GC III's can often vary from pocket to pocket so there is more involved than just extending them by 1/4". They need to be recut properly to insure uniformity.

While the angles are nice for mechanics, I didnt think to ask at the time how this translates in practical terms. In other words, if the tits are at 4.5 what is the proper opening size for the throat? Another thing I should have asked about (again in practical terms) is the numerical value which desribes the ideal setback. Or the distance from the tits to the shelf edge. Maybe that can be best explained in terms or the proper radius of the slate cut out?

Lord - I havent thought that much since I wrote my thesis!!!! I'm sure I butchered most of it but I am fairly certain I will be corrected.

Chris :grin-square:

P.S. - Its amazing how a college educated man can sound like a complete moron when they talk about something the are only beginning to understand!!!!!


chevybob20 said:
I would like to hear the reasoning behind the decision making process on this. I would also like to hear the OP's opinion of the "worth" of the work if he decides to extend the shelf.

I too am thinking of having it done by a qualified mechanic when I start work on my Centennial this year.

Thanks in advance.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
hdgis1 said:
The idea was to create a table that was a good one pocket table by allowing the ball to sit deeper in the throat. Since it is a GC III the pocket shelves are rounded from top to bottom, thus not alllowing the ball to sit hidden. If I understood Glenn correctly, the jist of it is its not really necessary to do. (Insert a whole bunch of stuff about tangents and other math related stuff:confused:)

Of more import is the relation of the rail nose to the bed (1 9/16) and the correct angle of the end of the rail (141) and the down cut angle of the same end (13).

I guess I was under the impression that by replacing the rubber with the correct profile (in this case from super speeds to Artemis K-55's) all would be good in table land. However, it seems that this isnt quite enough as the nose height is still not ideal. In order to make it ideal you add some amount of wood to the face of the subrail and recut a (24?) degree bevel. As for angles, Glenn did mention to make sure that all angles are the same. It seems GC III's can often vary from pocket to pocket so there is more involved than just extending them by 1/4". They need to be recut properly to insure uniformity.

While the angles are nice for mechanics, I didnt think to ask at the time how this translates in practical terms. In other words, if the tits are at 4.5 what is the proper opening size for the throat? Another thing I should have asked about (again in practical terms) is the numerical value which desribes the ideal setback. Or the distance from the tits to the shelf edge. Maybe that can be best explained in terms or the proper radius of the slate cut out?

Lord - I havent thought that much since I wrote my thesis!!!! I'm sure I butchered most of it but I am fairly certain I will be corrected.

Chris :grin-square:

P.S. - Its amazing how a college educated man can sound like a complete moron when they talk about something the are only beginning to understand!!!!!
Click to expand...

LOL...it's a little more than that when you really get into it, such as the height of the nose of the cushion. Ideal height is 1 7/16"ths at the point of contact of the object ball, but...the reaction of that nose height has a lot to do with the position of the body of the cushion behind that nose height, such as the thickness of the subrail...as that determines the alignment of the body of cushion behind that nose height...thus...the reaction of the cushions...playing fast...slow...high...low. There's a science to this whole thing...that most have no understanding of:grin: I mean, ask yourself why 2 different 9ft pool tables...with the exact cushions and slates...play differently?

Pocket angles are not determined by the opening at the back of the pocket, that's determined by the miter angles at the front of the pocket. No matter what table it's on, if the pocket miter cuts are 141 degrees, and the mouth of the pocket is 4 1/2"...the back of the pocket is going to be the exact distance across on all pockets. What does make a difference, is how far the balls will sit back in the throat of the pocket based on how far back the slate goes...but...that has no bearing on a ball rattling in the jaws of the pocket. That rattle is the same on Diamonds and Gold Crowns...with the exact same pocket dimensions, as that rattle takes place in the outer half of the jaws of the pocket and not in the throat.

Down angles can be used to either speed up the reaction of the balls when coming off the facings, or slow them down, depends on what the player is looking for as an end result.

Glen
 
hdgis1 said:
The idea was ...if the tits are at 4.5 what is the proper opening size for the throat? ...Lord - I havent thought that much since I wrote my thesis!!!! Chris :grin-square:

P.S. - Its amazing how a college educated man can sound like a complete moron when they talk about something the are only beginning to understand!!!!!
Click to expand...

Women are like that, Chris. Even you Drs are affected.:wink:
 
realkingcobra said:
LOL...it's a little more than that when you really get into it, such as the height of the nose of the cushion. Ideal height is 1 7/16"ths at the point of contact of the object ball, but...the reaction of that nose height has a lot to do with the position of the body of the cushion behind that nose height, such as the thickness of the subrail...as that determines the alignment of the body of cushion behind that nose height...thus...the reaction of the cushions...playing fast...slow...high...low. There's a science to this whole thing...that most have no understanding of:grin: I mean, ask yourself why 2 different 9ft pool tables...with the exact cushions and slates...play differently?

Pocket angles are not determined by the opening at the back of the pocket, that's determined by the miter angles at the front of the pocket. No matter what table it's on, if the pocket miter cuts are 141 degrees, and the mouth of the pocket is 4 1/2"...the back of the pocket is going to be the exact distance across on all pockets. What does make a difference, is how far the balls will sit back in the throat of the pocket based on how far back the slate goes...but...that has no bearing on a ball rattling in the jaws of the pocket. That rattle is the same on Diamonds and Gold Crowns...with the exact same pocket dimensions, as that rattle takes place in the outer half of the jaws of the pocket and not in the throat.

Down angles can be used to either speed up the reaction of the balls when coming off the facings, or slow them down, depends on what the player is looking for as an end result.

Glen
Click to expand...



Mann......I can't wait until I have someone that knows what they are doing set up my table...:smile:
 
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