Time for a LD shaft but not sure which one

S

sorin

Registered
Hey, looking for some advice from people who have more experience than me with LD shafts.
I have been playing recreationally since high school, then gave it up for some years and recently just picked it up again. I now have a table at home and for the past few months I was able to play about 1hr a day. I want to get into it more seriously and so I want to upgrade my cue to a LD shaft.
I currently play with an old Falcon cue (a Janette Lee signature that was one of the first they ever made) that was made in the '90 or '91, 13mm, regular deflection (from what I can tell and from some basic research that revealed low deflection shafts are actually quite new).
I like the look of the cue and I don't want to change the butt and that would save me some money as well as a relatively high end full cue like Predator, Mezz or similar are 1000$+. I did some researched and the majority of people seem to think that deflection is only influenced by the shaft so I told to myself why not keep the butt and upgrade just the shaft. My cue has a 5/16 x 14 joint which seems to be not as popular as the uniloc or other styles but I found 3 different shafts that are low deflection and that make them available for my joint:
- Predator 314-3 12.75mm
- Predator Revo 12.4mm
- Cynergy CT15 12.5mm

I see a lot of pros are using the carbon fiber shafts now but I also read that the Revo feels very weird and a lot of people actually hate them. Cynergy not so much.
My question is....would it be worth the extra money? I live in the UK and since there is no decent importer of american cues here I would have to order from abroad (USA or Germany) and that means pay VAT, Duty and delivery for them...so a revo or cynergy CF shaft could cost me upwards of 600-700£ (700-800$). I was thinking the 314-3 might be a good alternative, but what do people who played with both CF and LD mapple think? I could probably get a 314-3 for my cue for half the price of one of the two CF mentioned but are those CF really actually worth it? Or the law of diminishing returns apply here and the mapple one would be very close in LD terms as the other ones.

I can't really try them put before I buy as I don't know anybody yet who has these and would let me try them.

Thanks
 
As far as value for the money goes, only you can gauge that. I am happy to give you my own experiences.

I played with solid maple shafts for 25+ years. I tried LD shafts (the old laminated wood types) and never liked them because they seemed way too soft and whippy, like playing with a wet noodle at the end of my once-stout cue. When I heard CF shafts could give the same LD properties but with a stiffer, firmer hit, I gave it a try. I tried both the Cynergy and Revo. The Revo felt odd and dead to me. The Cynergy felt great, however. So even though the Revo seemed to be have a little less deflection, I went with the Cynergy.

That was only step 1. Step 2 was adjusting to the new LD properties. It took a while, but now I'm ecstatic I made the switch. I had to relearn basic spin shots, but now I am significantly more confident with longer spin shots, when needed. Before, if I was more than half a table-length away I had a "no-spin-don't-even-think-about-it" rule in effect. Now, I can play spin as needed on any length shot.

My favorite part of CF, though, is the maintenance. It's always smooth. I don't have to smooth it out or wax it or clean it, other than a bi-monthly 20-second wipe with an alcohol wipe. I don't have to worry about it warping. I can move balls around with the shaft and not worry about dings, or from if I accidentally drop it. It just takes a whole element of worry and concern away, which is quite refreshing.

At this point, I will never go back to wood.

So I highly recommend CF shafts, specifically the Cynergy, although go with whatever you seem to like best. Is it worth the money? Well, knowing what I do now, it would have been worth it even if I'd had to pay $700 (although, in full disclosure, I probably wouldn't have even initially tried it at that price). So I say dive in.

Best of luck!
 
5/16x14 is a very common shaft size. I wouldn't worry about that.

I can only give you info on the predator way of shafts, buy going with what I've played with. I have only ever used predator LD shafts.

For 20 years i used a pre-cat 5/16x14 predator shaft. I decided to retire my cue this year because the value was getting to much.

So i went on a search for a new cue, I bought something and added a 314-3 shaft. It played better then my 314 shaft. It was an improvement.

After a few months, i knew just because of technology i would go to CF eventually. I was able to try one out at the US open last month and purchased one.

As far as how CF feels. The hit felt the same as LD wood, what I noticed is less vibration on the shaft. It took about a week or two to fully get use to it, But I'm not getting rid of it. I'm looking to get a backup shaft too.

The shaft is as smooth as glass, just like my wooden shafts were.

I don't use a glove at all.

As far as cleaning I do have the cleaning wipe i do use them about once a week, But wiping it on a clean towel does get rid of a lot of dirt.
 
One more vote for trying your CF shaft before buying. While I do think CF is a better mousetrap it would be a mistake to think they are all identical. Also worth noting the butt does have a small effect on deflection. Unless I was playing with an unusually heavy butt I wouldn't worry about it.

Very limited testing seemed to indicate a skinny revo might be the cat's pajamas on a snooker table.

There are enough CF owners out here now that starting a poll and asking the responders to write a brief post why they like the shaft they chose best wouldn't be a bad idea.

Tip size is a good starting point but the properties of carbon fiber shafts can allow for unusual profiles that might not be liked. I really liked an 11.8mm Revo I shot with a few times. However, I think this particular shaft was out six months to a year before early production runs. A prototype might not have much in common with a production shaft.

Do your homework before buying. One thing though, carbon fiber is hot enough now you can probably buy a shaft or two and sell any you don't like for little or no loss so it should be a low risk investment.

Hu
 
sorin said:
Hey, looking for some advice from people who have more experience than me with LD shafts.
I have been playing recreationally since high school, then gave it up for some years and recently just picked it up again. I now have a table at home and for the past few months I was able to play about 1hr a day. I want to get into it more seriously and so I want to upgrade my cue to a LD shaft.
I currently play with an old Falcon cue (a Janette Lee signature that was one of the first they ever made) that was made in the '90 or '91, 13mm, regular deflection (from what I can tell and from some basic research that revealed low deflection shafts are actually quite new).
I like the look of the cue and I don't want to change the butt and that would save me some money as well as a relatively high end full cue like Predator, Mezz or similar are 1000$+. I did some researched and the majority of people seem to think that deflection is only influenced by the shaft so I told to myself why not keep the butt and upgrade just the shaft. My cue has a 5/16 x 14 joint which seems to be not as popular as the uniloc or other styles but I found 3 different shafts that are low deflection and that make them available for my joint:
- Predator 314-3 12.75mm
- Predator Revo 12.4mm
- Cynergy CT15 12.5mm

I see a lot of pros are using the carbon fiber shafts now but I also read that the Revo feels very weird and a lot of people actually hate them. Cynergy not so much.
My question is....would it be worth the extra money? I live in the UK and since there is no decent importer of american cues here I would have to order from abroad (USA or Germany) and that means pay VAT, Duty and delivery for them...so a revo or cynergy CF shaft could cost me upwards of 600-700£ (700-800$). I was thinking the 314-3 might be a good alternative, but what do people who played with both CF and LD mapple think? I could probably get a 314-3 for my cue for half the price of one of the two CF mentioned but are those CF really actually worth it? Or the law of diminishing returns apply here and the mapple one would be very close in LD terms as the other ones.

I can't really try them put before I buy as I don't know anybody yet who has these and would let me try them.

Thanks
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Short answer it doesn’t matter. Long answer depends on lots of factors how thick your fingers are, your playing style, which taper you prefer, spin vs long shots, etc. I like z3 and wx900 but it’s personal preference. I shot with Revo & Cynergy for 6 hours nonstop going back & forth taking notes. I ran racks did drills etc. Sold my Cynergy, the Revo was just better in my opinion and honestly have no idea how SVB and Feder shoot with it I don’t like the Cynergy. But fyi there are players stronger than me who absolutely hate the Revo. I say get whatever and invest your energy into your game.
 
My experience is Cuetec works great on most butts. On my Falcon, though, Revo won out.

Of course, my Falcon is from when they were making Predator butts. Yours may play more like a Joss, especially if it is piloted. For me, I like a flat faced shaft on a piloted butt.

BTW, Revo shafts may feel deadish if the tip is too soft or if it is on a big pin butt from my experience.

Don't know shipping, but watch AZB sales forum...checking rating on seller is a must

Good luck
 
pechauer rogue! I dont know why they arent more popular. If you dont see your joint style on their site, they will just make you one. I absolutely love mine. It hits just like my old maple shaft. No strange "ping" or metallic sound, like with other cf shafts. That is why i went with the rogue. I played with maple for 18 years and just switched, and didnt really even have a learning curve with the cf. I liked it the first time i used it.
 
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Those old falcon cues are fantastic don't mess with it😉.
Personally I would get a revo. Most popular and hold value. That way you can trade up or down to try others if you want to do that.
 
IMO, all of those in your list will work fine and the 12.5mm will have similar playing characteristics across the manufacturers. Sure, there will be some slight variation, but 12.5 is pretty vanilla in terms of playability. The main issue with the getting an add-on shaft is the overlap at the joint. I'd select the one that has the closest matching diameter at the joint end.

-td
 
Thanks for your opinions! Now I am a little worried, I thought that all shafts that match the butt pin would be a perfect match but now that I heard about pilotted, flat faced, overlap at the joint...I will probably try to see if I can get something on the second hand market so I could try it to make sure it matches perfectly on the butt. But as I said before it looks like this joint style is not very popular or at least here in the UK, everybody seems to have uni loc joints.
 
By the way what does piloted and flat faced mean? I couldn't find any explanation on google. The only search result that seems to explain it with pictures is from AZB but it's so old that the pictures attached can no longer be seen. By comparing the 5/16 x 14 piloted joint shown on the Pechauer Rogue sale page it seems like it looks very similar to my cue joint but would be good to see a non-piloted one to be sure.
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
Those old falcon cues are fantastic don't mess with it😉.
Personally I would get a revo. Most popular and hold value. That way you can trade up or down to try others if you want to do that.
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Agreed. My 1990s Falcon is my main go-to player. Original shaft ran out of miles but I have a custom bowling alley maple shaft at 11.5mm with a stupid long pro taper on it. Plays like a beaut.

re the LD shafts.... def try em b4 u buy em. Go to a trny and find a vendor and if there aren't any...go to a bigger trny.
 
sorin said:
By the way what does piloted and flat faced mean? I couldn't find any explanation on google. The only search result that seems to explain it with pictures is from AZB but it's so old that the pictures attached can no longer be seen. By comparing the 5/16 x 14 piloted joint shown on the Pechauer Rogue sale page it seems like it looks very similar to my cue joint but would be good to see a non-piloted one to be sure.
Click to expand...
most all steel joint cues are piloted. wood-2-wood are flat faced.
 
WobblyStroke said:
Agreed. My 1990s Falcon is my main go-to player. Original shaft ran out of miles but I have a custom bowling alley maple shaft at 11.5mm with a stupid long pro taper on it. Plays like a beaut.

re the LD shafts.... def try em b4 u buy em. Go to a trny and find a vendor and if there aren't any...go to a bigger trny.
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I used to practice with a guy all the time that had a turquoise colored one. Played like a dream. He would never sell it. I like those forward weighted cues. Schon, joss , falcon. Solid cues.
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
I used to practice with a guy all the time that had a turquoise colored one. Played like a dream. He would never sell it. I like those forward weighted cues. Schon, joss , falcon. Solid cues.
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I agree, I really like the feel of the cue and not changing the butt as it looks pretty good too. Only tried two other cues from friends but both were low end cues so can't tell if a Predator or Mezz would feel different. In any case I think a LD shaft would benefit me. I will try to follow the advice and find someone who sells these shafts and perhaps can try before I buy.
 
sorin said:
I agree, I really like the feel of the cue and not changing the butt as it looks pretty good too. Only tried two other cues from friends but both were low end cues so can't tell if a Predator or Mezz would feel different. In any case I think a LD shaft would benefit me. I will try to follow the advice and find someone who sells these shafts and perhaps can try before I buy.
Click to expand...
It's a fun process. You have a cool cue that you don't see to many of anymore. Enjoy your experiments!
Who knows, you might end up right back where you started? Happened to me. I'm unnaturally hard headed, ymmv😃
 
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