Tip Hardness Tester

S

shakes

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does anyone actually use a durometer for tips? I believe I previously saw one on Porper's site, but it doesn't seem to be there anymore, or my memory could be faulty. I'm just curious as to how important true measurements of the tip hardness was to everyone.

Anyone have a homemade remedy or any ideas for a good durometer for measuring tip hardness objectively as opposed to subjectively? Something you can actually look at and log for your customers so that you can have repeatability and adjustability based on what feedback they give you on their previous tip(s)?
 
shakes said:
Anyone have a homemade remedy or any ideas for a good durometer for measuring tip hardness objectively as opposed to subjectively? Something you can actually look at and log for your customers so that you can have repeatability and adjustability based on what feedback they give you on their previous tip(s)?
Click to expand...

A durometer typically measures the depth of an indentation caused by a known force on a ball or point. A dial indicator with a ball-tip-plunger could be held by a jig/stand over a cue-tip, then a weight lowered to bear on the top of the plunger. The difference in the readings ( before - after ) is the depth of the indentation, and it is related to the "hardness". You'd need to play with ball sizes on the tip of the plunger, and with the amount of weight to get good readings. Just an idea, but it should work with a little experimentation.

You'd need some known test standards to calibrate the thing, but I'm not sure that tips are rated against hardness scales by the manufacturers, so it might not matter. The relative hardness between types of types and between tips in a batch might be useful information. I use Elk Masters, so I'd be more interested in a softness tester ;)

Dave
 
DaveK said:
A durometer typically measures the depth of an indentation caused by a known force on a ball or point. A dial indicator with a ball-tip-plunger could be held by a jig/stand over a cue-tip, then a weight lowered to bear on the top of the plunger. The difference in the readings ( before - after ) is the depth of the indentation, and it is related to the "hardness". You'd need to play with ball sizes on the tip of the plunger, and with the amount of weight to get good readings. Just an idea, but it should work with a little experimentation.

You'd need some known test standards to calibrate the thing, but I'm not sure that tips are rated against hardness scales by the manufacturers, so it might not matter. The relative hardness between types of types and between tips in a batch might be useful information. I use Elk Masters, so I'd be more interested in a softness tester ;)

Dave
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I think that's what I am most interested in. Such as with the infamous Le Pro tips. You should be able to actually tell by your tests which Le Pros need to be seriously pressed, or thrown out. And again, if you kept tight notes, you could actually give your repeat customers the near exact feeling tip each and every time. Or adjust it to something softer or harder and you have an exact measure on each tip every time.

Not to mention, in theory, you should be able to do the same thing with the ferrules to get a solid measure of what material is harder than others, and if one batch is off from the rest you normally use.
 
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> There certainly was one advertised on the Porper site,but I can't imagine he sold many of them,at something like 450.00. I can only see the most analytical cuemakers justifying that expense. Most of those have probably got one of the deluxe models you see in machine shops and metrology labs,same as the Starrett surface plate covered in Simonis that McDermott uses that I mentioned in another post. Tommy D.
 
One meter should do it all

I don't know if they can be purchased that way but one meter should be able to read all scales. One company has three different contact point sizes and shapes. One looks to be almost a point for the "A" scale which is fairly hard such as hard plastics.(maybe ferules?) The "D" scale has a larger tip and it looks like straight sides. The final option which I think is the "C" scale is a rounded tip for measuring very soft rubber.

This would make sense because the meter would apply the same amount of pressure over different sized areas of the material being tested altering the PSI of the pressure. It also seems that it wouldn't be too difficult to make a tip for any hardness range you want to test. A homemade tip would of course read on a custom scale but it should work fine for someone's own use.

Hu



shakes said:
I think that's what I am most interested in. Such as with the infamous Le Pro tips. You should be able to actually tell by your tests which Le Pros need to be seriously pressed, or thrown out. And again, if you kept tight notes, you could actually give your repeat customers the near exact feeling tip each and every time. Or adjust it to something softer or harder and you have an exact measure on each tip every time.

Not to mention, in theory, you should be able to do the same thing with the ferrules to get a solid measure of what material is harder than others, and if one batch is off from the rest you normally use.
Click to expand...
 
Tommy-D said:
> There certainly was one advertised on the Porper site,but I can't imagine he sold many of them,at something like 450.00. I can only see the most analytical cuemakers justifying that expense. Most of those have probably got one of the deluxe models you see in machine shops and metrology labs,same as the Starrett surface plate covered in Simonis that McDermott uses that I mentioned in another post. Tommy D.
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Like everything, there is a range of durometers. Here are some cheapies :

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-XF-Du...ryZ61793QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

In general, I find it is most economical to purchase items from primary suppliers as opposed to specialized niche-market retailers. Shore makes a good durometer. Find a major distributer of Shore and they will likely have the best price.

Dave
 
Intercomp

For those considering the fifty-nine dollar racing tire durometer, I e-mailed Intercomp explaining my needs(tip testing) and asking if the racing durometer would do the job or if they offered something better suited. The man handling e-mail was of the opinion that it would work just fine.

I have an electronic scale that will weigh to one tenth of a grain.(1/70,000 of a pound) I have weighed tips with them in the past to get an idea of density after measuring overall height. I think I will add the durometer to my test equipment. I still prefer a good one piece tip to a layered tip.

Hu
 
DaveK said:
Like everything, there is a range of durometers. Here are some cheapies :

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-XF-Du...ryZ61793QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

In general, I find it is most economical to purchase items from primary suppliers as opposed to specialized niche-market retailers. Shore makes a good durometer. Find a major distributer of Shore and they will likely have the best price.

Dave
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I don't know that it would have to be the most precise durometer on the market as long as it was consistent. You could have any rating system you wanted to for your customers as long as you were consistent. I just thought it would make it easier on myself and others, and was curious as to whether anyone was doing this or not. I believe I saw Cory from Tiger mentioning that they do it, but their main niche is leather, and selling tips is a big part of that, so I guess it makes tremendous sense for them to purchase a nice, precise (read: expensive, lol) durometer.

Hu, did you happen to ask if they have a stand that would hold this durometer? I believe that a stand would be very important to getting a consistent measurement, and may go with something from ebay that can use a stand. Thanks for the leg work on calling the manufacturer.

Any thoughts from Cue builders or mechanics that might be using one now?
 
Using a durometer

Unless it has an unseen mounting hole in the back I think mounting this one on a stand would require a nut and some epoxy. However, best I recall from years gone by the tire durometer has a full circle stop not far outside the pin. You just press it too whatever you are testing until the stop collar touches and get a reading.

I don't think it requires any more touch than a caliper or a mike if as much. I'm going to test one without a stand first. If it is as repeatable as I think it will be a stand won't be an issue. If I need a stand I'll break out one of my $7.99 magnetic dial caliper stands and build from there.

Below is a link to an article in PDF format about reading the hardness of go-kart tires. Some information I found of value all through the article. As a whole it gives a little better understanding of the durometer. I learned that like many things, it takes consistent technique with the durometer to get consistent results.

Near the end the author mentions comparing the reading from the Intercomp gauge and a nearly $900 digital gauge and said that they matched, at least in his application.

Hu

http://www.intercomp-racing.com/tech/Measuring Tire Hardness.pdf

shakes said:
I don't know that it would have to be the most precise durometer on the market as long as it was consistent. You could have any rating system you wanted to for your customers as long as you were consistent. I just thought it would make it easier on myself and others, and was curious as to whether anyone was doing this or not. I believe I saw Cory from Tiger mentioning that they do it, but their main niche is leather, and selling tips is a big part of that, so I guess it makes tremendous sense for them to purchase a nice, precise (read: expensive, lol) durometer.

Hu, did you happen to ask if they have a stand that would hold this durometer? I believe that a stand would be very important to getting a consistent measurement, and may go with something from ebay that can use a stand. Thanks for the leg work on calling the manufacturer.

Any thoughts from Cue builders or mechanics that might be using one now?
Click to expand...
 
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