Tip-Offset & Pivot Aiming 101

[Colin Colenso]

Mike:

I think the pivot point is the bridge hand (which only moves for the initial, off-center alignment). The bridge would need to be the same distance from the cueball on all shots for this method to work consistently.

Also, I don't think Colin is talking about swerving the stick... it is a straight stroke after the adjustments are made.

I really prefer visualizing and then letting my brain and body shoot the shot. This aiming stuff will drive you nuts. You should know some aiming systems to use for long cut shots and spot shots, but beyond that, just let it flow, Man!

It would help to use the same bridge length on all shots, so you could memorize the tip offsets required. But a quick mental calculation could suffice. Such that it you had to lengthen the bridge by 30%, you would increase the tip offset by 30%. And vice-versa for shortening.

A agree, this aiming system could drive someone nuts.

But I think it can also teach a player what is and what is not important in their stroke. Which aspects, when controlled can lead to the greatest accuracy. What aiming system actually works best and which ones may come in handy for certain shots. To gain the knowledge so that you can see the weaknesses in any system pretty quickly, rather that try it out some day, make a few good shots, think it's the new Super-system and then waste 6 months on it until you give it up.

If there is one thing my thinking about systems has taught me, it is the importance in the positioning of the bridge hand, or more particularly the point on the bridge from where it pivots.

All the feathering of the cue in the world won't make a good shot if the pivot is wrongly placed. I think very few recognize how important that is, and so they seek out the angle after the bridge is firm and then their subconscious pulls and pushes to try to get the CB back on the right line.

Anyway, I'm blabbering...hope you know what I mean.
Basically there's nothing can beat the feeling when you just trust your body, bridge and alignment to just fall naturally into the right place. But some days, or some shots it just doesn't look right, it looks harder. The point of these discussions is to lead to ways to be in that groove, that zone, or just to be highly accurate constantly.

 

[Colin Colenso]

As for the "exactly 1/2 tip off center" question, geometry aside, I had already found out by trial and error that that is the approximate amount that is needed. A little more, a little less, it may work with your stick, tip, combination. In any case, it's a small amount. The advantage of doing the aiming with the pivot point for the distance from cue ball to object ball in question is that even if you are a tad off in the 1/2 stuff, the ball will probably pot, if your stroke is straight.

There's a whole lot to this system that is not at all complicated, IMHO.

One of the key elements is choosing the correct pivot point for your cue for the CB to OB distance, a second is the aiming part that he covers in this thread, and if you have chosen the correct point on the OB to aim at, and your stroke is straight, the ball should pot. Of course if your stroke a bit off and you are adding some swipe into the mix on a longer shot you very well might miss the shot.

I'm finding this system Colin has come up with based on the varying pivot points to be pretty simple to internalize so that not too much thought needs to go into the aiming and shooting of the shot. It's part of my pre-shot routine now, and it's working better and better for me. However if I were playing with three cues with different shaft tapers and tips, it would take some time to adjust, but heck, isn't pool a game of adaptation to multiple factors anyway?

Flex

Well explained Flex!
btw. A lot of pros I've read about would never change their cues, and losing or breaking one often caused a significant and long loss of form...until they learned all the re-adjusments. Maybe with a more systematic approach this would not be such a big problem.

I find this aiming system useful on some shots, such as being elevated or over a rail at an angle, or cutting back into center pockets or blind cuts, where the usual method of finding alignment just doesn't look right, or I tend to miss thin often on that particular shot. It gives me another way to align it...to check it. That helps me to start to see the correct line better on those shots.

btw: Glad you're still having success with the BHE Pivot Length Adjustment System (BHEPLAS)
Calcul8r

 

[Flex]

If there is one thing my thinking about systems has taught me, it is the importance in the positioning of the bridge hand, or more particularly the point on the bridge from where it pivots.

You can say that again!!

However, for this all to work, it's necessary to invest the time to find out where those pivot points are for your cue, and also how they may vary depending on the strength of the shot. Not for the faint of hearted, but it certainly can do wonders for your confidence.

Now, I wonder how to explain this stuff to someone in 10 minutes or less

Cheers!

Flex

 

[Colin Colenso]

You can say that again!!

However, for this all to work, it's necessary to invest the time to find out where those pivot points are for your cue, and also how they may vary depending on the strength of the shot. Not for the faint of hearted, but it certainly can do wonders for your confidence.

Now, I wonder how to explain this stuff to someone in 10 minutes or less

Cheers!

Flex

Let me first say....it's GOOD to be back online here!!!

Now back on topic, systems can simplify some things, give greater insight into other things by recognising the importance of some variables and the interelationships between them.

A simple rule may come in usefule for a group of semi-regular shots. Such as the basic BHE system for potting OB's from 2-3 feet away when they are 1-2 feet from the pocket.

But, to be able to use systems accurately for a wide range of shots, a chapter if not a book worth of information needs to be digested.

No easy path to glory, that's for sure....but with a good understanding of how the varaibles inter-relate, and a methodical approach to calibrating these systems, can lead to a greater predictability in advanced shot making.

 

[TheConArtist]

Yah we are back, man i am almost bald here lol. BHE or aim and point method i use has helped my pocketing skills go way high, but i do things different i am a lefty so i use just nothing but the right side of the cueball aiming my tip offset there depending on the shot. Then i pivot to my english or just center ball hit most of the time and it works for almost every shot on the table left cuts right cuts.

 

[JoeyA]

Colin, I read your posts often. One day before the WPC moves from your part of the country, I hope to visit and meet you there. I enjoy watching players from different parts of the world. I think any aiming system can help some people with their game. Like you, I believe that some people can get a fast start on "seeing the shot" and making the ball, by applying systems like what Hal Houle promotes. The higher end level of play only comes with many hours of ROTE. Any aiming system can at least point you in the right direction if you don't get it naturally which many of us don't so I never discount any of them. By asking the same questions to pros and instructers over and over I find that most simply use the contact point to contact pointe system.
JoeyA

Sometimes when using pivoting, I do move my body and even feet to get more comfortable for the stroke. It depends on how much you need to pivot. For this alignment method, it may be necessary if you start the alignment 1 1/2 tips off center.

Just want to point out, that while I think this system is a useful guide, and an interesting way to check your alignment, it would take some time to make it highly accurate.

It may be useful also for those who don't see the angles to well and want a quick fix to get them in the ball park.

 

[Cameron Smith]

An interesting method of aligning to determine potting angles is to select initial alignment points, usually Center, 3/4, 1/2 and edge of OB and then adjust for the angle away from these using the method described and diagrammed below.

For simplicity I'll show a near full ball pot...approximately 10 degrees of potting angle, CB about 4 feet from the OB.

See diagram below:
The blue line is the initial line up method. Align the the cue about 1/2 tip off center from the CB so that it points directly at the center of the OB. Ignore the CB, other than to make sure the tip offset is the required 1/2 tip distance from center (about 6mm).

The white ghost ball track in the diagram represents the ghost ball track around the blue aim line. But I think most players using this system simply imagine the blue line or pointing a the blue spot which is the core center of the OB.

Once aligned, pivot the cue at the pink pivot point to the center of the CB. It will align to the green line and hopefully will pot the ball.

If the OB and CB were closer you may need a 1 tip offset. If the angle was just 3 degrees perhaps just an 1/8th tip offset.

Anyway, though it may stimulate a useful discussion on such aiming systems...the pros and cons, the variable at play...other related methods of establishing aim.
The Calcul8r

LOL, didn't you used to be the guy that preached the FEEL method of aiming? Well if you have found something that works better more power to you. Personally Im gonna continue using my inner tuning fork to judge the angles.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Colin, I read your posts often. One day before the WPC moves from your part of the country, I hope to visit and meet you there. I enjoy watching players from different parts of the world. I think any aiming system can help some people with their game. Like you, I believe that some people can get a fast start on "seeing the shot" and making the ball, by applying systems like what Hal Houle promotes. The higher end level of play only comes with many hours of ROTE. Any aiming system can at least point you in the right direction if you don't get it naturally which many of us don't so I never discount any of them. By asking the same questions to pros and instructers over and over I find that most simply use the contact point to contact pointe system.
JoeyA

Hi JoeyA,
Unfortunately the WPC is off the mainland of China and there are no direct flights currently between the two countries, so it's not particularly convenient. I'll hopefully get a chance to meet yourself and some more of the AZ members at some of the IPT events this year...and hopefully the next as well

 

[Colin Colenso]

LOL, didn't you used to be the guy that preached the FEEL method of aiming? Well if you have found something that works better more power to you. Personally Im gonna continue using my inner tuning fork to judge the angles.

Hi Cameron,
I've had debates here, being on the feel side of aiming. I've also publicly given credit to fellow posters DM and Fred and others whose names I can't recall for opening my mind to various system methodologies.

If a system can be applied effectively I believe it offers great potential benefits.

Regarding using English, I am very happy with an adaptable BHE system I've been trialing.

Regarding aiming, I brought this thread up for ideas / discussion on the pros and cons. I can see some potential, but for me, and many players, most the time our aiming is done best intuitively. But even when I say intuitively, or by feel, there is some level of systematic preparation behind it, such as visualization of certain lines or points. Looking more deeply into such systems, to find where they work well, and where they don't and the variables that come into play, is I believe a useful way of finding improvement.

A man who can't change his mind, is destined not to learn much

 

[Cameron Smith]

Hi Cameron,
I've had debates here, being on the feel side of aiming. I've also publicly given credit to fellow posters DM and Fred and others whose names I can't recall for opening my mind to various system methodologies.

If a system can be applied effectively I believe it offers great potential benefits.

Regarding using English, I am very happy with an adaptable BHE system I've been trialing.

Regarding aiming, I brought this thread up for ideas / discussion on the pros and cons. I can see some potential, but for me, and many players, most the time our aiming is done best intuitively. But even when I say intuitively, or by feel, there is some level of systematic preparation behind it, such as visualization of certain lines or points. Looking more deeply into such systems, to find where they work well, and where they don't and the variables that come into play, is I believe a useful way of finding improvement.

A man who can't change his mind, is destined not to learn much

I agree that an aiming system is usefull, actually I have been planning for a while to try a few, because there are some days that I just can't feel the angles they way i usually do. But when parrallel lines, geometry and arithmatic are involved my head starts to hurt.

 

[TheConArtist]

I agree that an aiming system is usefull, actually I have been planning for a while to try a few, because there are some days that I just can't feel the angles they way i usually do. But when parrallel lines, geometry and arithmatic are involved my head starts to hurt.

Aww i hate those days, compared to the days where i don't have to use any system just get down see the angle and fire away ball gone, then the next day something just don't work that way then i have to go back use a system then that don't work cause i am rushing it. Someone please tell the aiming system that is a 100% please lol.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Someone please tell the aiming system that is a 100% please lol.

That would be the 'Don't Play Aiming System'. It never misses!

 

[CaptainJR]

I really don't want to argue aiming systems. I do think this though.

I don't think pool is a sport as much as it is an art. I didn't mean it's not a sport at all, just more like an art to me. I'm going to make a comparison the way I see them.

An artist painting a person, just free hand. - A pool player seeing where he wants the cue ball to hit the object ball, making the two spots meet and pocketing the ball.

An artist drawing a stick figure then surrounding them with ovals and eventually painting a person. A pool player not paying much attention to the spot and pivoting a specified amount to make a shot.

Both methods of painting come up with some beautiful work. Both methods of pocketing a ball get the ball in the hole. I really want to say that the pivot method doesn't always work but I'm not going to say that. For this post lets say that if you make up enough pivoting rules you can pocket the ball.

Which is the most pure form? I think the answer to that is obvious.

If you want to get your game to the best it can be. I think a player needs to learn the art and get away from 1/4 and 1/2.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I really want to say that the pivot method doesn't always work but I'm not going to say that.

But you just did . j/k
I find it does work for me, i dont have to concern myself as much with deflection as much as i normally would. Even on the long pots, which is great.

regards

 

[CaptainJR]

But you just did . j/k
I find it does work for me, i dont have to concern myself as much with deflection as much as i normally would. Even on the long pots, which is great.

regards

No, I didn't. I said "For this post lets say that if you make up enough pivoting rules you can pocket the ball."

 

[TheConArtist]

That would be the 'Don't Play Aiming System'. It never misses!

Thanks Colin, i am going to give this a try tonight at leagues lol.

 

[pete lafond]

The last 3 times I played I tried to pay more attention to my stroke line and pivot, the results were not very good in fact I shot horribly. My normal aim method which is to see the OB to the pocket as a line at trigger time was abandoned to give this new method a fair try. (my shot adjustments for squirt, throw and pivot are notmally automatic based on feel - these to were thrown out also) Bottom line, I could not run a rack of 9 ball and lost every match even against the weaker players. I did stick with it though.

The reason I believe it does not work for me is that I had been playing so long with my aiming system. What I really struggled with was to feel comfortable with my stroke, I just couldn't. It lacked a natural feel and it seemed to cause to much focus on the immediate for me instead of the complete shot (at least as I'm familiar with). CB position was not so much a problem and I know I could improve on it over time. Shot making was the #1 problem. I found myself stroking to the OB instead of the feeling of stroking through the OB and just feeling the shot.

In any event, I am probably not at the point in my game that I should change my aim and shoot technique because my current method is well engraced in me. It was fun trying though. And I will not discount its effectiveness due to some that have had success with it in this forum.

 

[Colin Colenso]

The last 3 times I played I tried to pay more attention to my stroke line and pivot, the results were not very good in fact I shot horribly. My normal aim method which is to see the OB to the pocket as a line at trigger time was abandoned to give this new method a fair try. (my shot adjustments for squirt, throw and pivot are notmally automatic based on feel - these to were thrown out also) Bottom line, I could not run a rack of 9 ball and lost every match even against the weaker players. I did stick with it though.

The reason I believe it does not work for me is that I had been playing so long with my aiming system. What I really struggled with was to feel comfortable with my stroke, I just couldn't. It lacked a natural feel and it seemed to cause to much focus on the immediate for me instead of the complete shot (at least as I'm familiar with). CB position was not so much a problem and I know I could improve on it over time. Shot making was the #1 problem. I found myself stroking to the OB instead of the feeling of stroking through the OB and just feeling the shot.

In any event, I am probably not at the point in my game that I should change my aim and shoot technique because my current method is well engraced in me. It was fun trying though. And I will not discount its effectiveness due to some that have had success with it in this forum.

Good report Pete,
I'm not suprised that the transition was difficult for you.

I figure it would take 4 hour sessions for a week before the brain starts reprogramming itself. And you'd need to unlearn ( or throw out) a lot of things that work for you, and find new pre-alignment ways to adjust for them.

I may be lucky that I have had a break from regular practice for a few years and now my brain is a bit of a blank slate. Pretty quickly I've managed to find consistancy by focusing on pre-alignment and looking at the CB during the delivery, at least so much that I'm not constantly tempted to look up and use the older method with slight cue adjustments (sweeping) on delivery.

I'm finding my CB control is getting much better as I've pre-determined the alignment according to how I'll strike before the shot and can be 100% focused on the CB.

I think this method requires a lot of time.

I taught this system to a beginner today, and she caught on pretty quickly and soon she was not sweeping across to make the angles as she previously had. She began to concentrate much more on the bridge hand placement and picturing the lines with much more focus before the shot.

I figure starting this way can help players to develop a game with straighter cuing, and allow them to more quickly accommodate to BHE type systems and CB control methods.

Perhaps one of the reasons so many beginners have problems with deep draw shots is that they are so used to sweeping to make the angle, it is darn near impossible to sweep across a CB when hitting low without miscuing.