Tips for Students of CTE
- Thread starter AtLarge
- Start date
You're right JE54, could be just the lay
of the land, or where the balls end up!!
But on the other hand I've tested friends
that have no Idea about CTE/Pro-One
and I set up reference shots that I know
are A or C and they tell me they see
reference point B!! Go figure!!
I think Mohrt clarified that he was talking about the shots from the DVD, not typical shooting. If I was shooting true B shots most of the time in a typical game I would probably have to go back to position or speed control school... 
It's possible that different people will see the lines differently, but probably not that drastically. I would think if you took a 15 - 20 degree cut and tried to sight middle of the ball (B) and pivoted you would miss repeatedly. But around the transition angles I could see where one person could see a A/C and outside pivot and the next person might see a B with an inside pivot.
And yes, I play exclusively on 9' tables these days, although I've played a bunch on 8' tables as well and I'm not sure the relative angles would change that much.
It's possible that different people will see the lines differently, but probably not that drastically. I would think if you took a 15 - 20 degree cut and tried to sight middle of the ball (B) and pivoted you would miss repeatedly. But around the transition angles I could see where one person could see a A/C and outside pivot and the next person might see a B with an inside pivot.
And yes, I play exclusively on 9' tables these days, although I've played a bunch on 8' tables as well and I'm not sure the relative angles would change that much.
Not to be negative, but another 200+ thread. is not going to teach you how to make the ball go in th hole...There are too many variables... To rely on ANY system is a farce...Learn to play the game with all its variables, and you will enjoy more success than any "aiming system" can ever provide.
Most aiming systems are designed for beginners, or at best "C" players, who just can't make the ball go in the hole often enough...
Tell that to Efren and Bustamante...
Not to be negative, but another 200+ thread. is not going to teach you how to make the ball go in th hole...There are too many variables... To rely on ANY system is a farce...Learn to play the game with all its variables, and you will enjoy more success than any "aiming system" can ever provide.
Most aiming systems are designed for beginners, or at best "C" players, who just can't make the ball go in the hole often enough...
Thanks for the pro tip! Man what was I thinking?
Not to be negative, but another 200+ thread. is not going to teach you how to make the ball go in th hole...There are too many variables... To rely on ANY system is a farce...Learn to play the game with all its variables, and you will enjoy more success than any "aiming system" can ever provide.
Most aiming systems are designed for beginners, or at best "C" players, who just can't make the ball go in the hole often enough...
Yes it can help those that can't aim by "feel" or GB.
Regarding the initial aim line, it should be fairly straight forward to work out. According to the DVD, the 1/2 tip pivot equals a 1/2 ball pivot on the object ball (anyone confirm?)
To find the initial aiming line, line up the cue through the cueball center, through the ghostball center, and reverse the 1/2 tip pivot. This should bring you to the initial aiming line. I tried making a crude diagram of where the aim line should be, if it is always a 1/2 ball pivot.
yellow ball = ghost ball
orange ball = object ball
white ball = cueball
black arrows = CTEL and ABC lines
green line = object ball target path
red line = pre-pivot aim line
purple line = post-pivot aim line
The first two are "B" with outside pivot. The last one is "C" with inside pivot. I was guessing at the pivoting point, but I imagine this should be in a place that creates a 1/2 tip off-center of cueball. ???
Maybe this is completely off-base (ie WRONG), but maybe a good starting point for discussion
To find the initial aiming line, line up the cue through the cueball center, through the ghostball center, and reverse the 1/2 tip pivot. This should bring you to the initial aiming line. I tried making a crude diagram of where the aim line should be, if it is always a 1/2 ball pivot.
yellow ball = ghost ball
orange ball = object ball
white ball = cueball
black arrows = CTEL and ABC lines
green line = object ball target path
red line = pre-pivot aim line
purple line = post-pivot aim line
The first two are "B" with outside pivot. The last one is "C" with inside pivot. I was guessing at the pivoting point, but I imagine this should be in a place that creates a 1/2 tip off-center of cueball. ???
Maybe this is completely off-base (ie WRONG), but maybe a good starting point for discussion
scottjen26 and mohrt -- From your recent posts, I see that the terms "inside" and "outside" are being used differently by different people. Let me clarify.
When Stan uses the term "right" for a pivot, he means that the stick is offset 1/2 tip to the right of CB center and the tip is then pivoted from right to left to get to CB center. Similarly, a "left" pivot in Stan's terminology means the stick is offset to the left of CB center and the tip is then pivoted from left to right to get to CB center.
When Dr. Dave and I have used the terms "outside" and "inside," it means that the stick is offset to that side of the CB ("outside" means the side away from the cut or pocket) and then the pivot is to center CB from there.
So outside and inside refer to the stick offset, or, equivalently, the side from which the tip is pivoted. This is explained in Dr. Dave's summary: http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#ProOne
When Stan uses the term "right" for a pivot, he means that the stick is offset 1/2 tip to the right of CB center and the tip is then pivoted from right to left to get to CB center. Similarly, a "left" pivot in Stan's terminology means the stick is offset to the left of CB center and the tip is then pivoted from left to right to get to CB center.
When Dr. Dave and I have used the terms "outside" and "inside," it means that the stick is offset to that side of the CB ("outside" means the side away from the cut or pocket) and then the pivot is to center CB from there.
A cut to the left using Stan's "right" pivot is "outside."
A cut to the left using Stan's "left" pivot is "inside."
A cut to the right using Stan's "left" pivot is "outside."
A cut to the right using Stan's "right" pivot is "inside."
A cut to the left using Stan's "left" pivot is "inside."
A cut to the right using Stan's "left" pivot is "outside."
A cut to the right using Stan's "right" pivot is "inside."
So outside and inside refer to the stick offset, or, equivalently, the side from which the tip is pivoted. This is explained in Dr. Dave's summary: http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#ProOne
I've been incorrectly understanding "outside" to mean "pivot toward the outside". I periodically have to check what "right" and "left" pivot means too, I get them mixed up. This terminology is subject to misunderstandings. Maybe use something like left-to-right pivot (L2R), right-to-left pivot (R2L) to make things absolutely clear.
Just think of it this way: the descriptive word -- whether it's "right," "left," "inside," "outside," "in," or "out" -- refers to the side of CB center for the stick offset (as opposed to the direction of movement of the tip during the pivot). Your L2R and R2L also work, but they mean different things depending on whether the cut is to the left or right.
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Yep it makes sense, once you know to think of it that way. With L2R, R2L, there is no question. For me I understood it fine when reading it, but when taking it to the table I kept flipping things around. But that could be just me
Good catch about L2R and R2L on left/right cuts. So the best of both worlds: inside-to-outside, outside-to-inside.
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Yep, I was thinking direction of pivot, not initial offset. I see that Stan named them that way because of the Pro1 pivots so he wouldn't have to change directions. You use the left/right Pro1 pivot the same as using the left/right manual pivot, if they were named for the direction (which is more logical I think) then the terminology would be reversed.
So given my new understanding (and it makes sense to be consistent), the majority of the shots during normal shooting would use an inside pivot, with the only exceptions being straight or almost straight shots and any shots that are in the transition areas between the various aim points.
Thanks AtLarge for clearing this up!
Scott
So given my new understanding (and it makes sense to be consistent), the majority of the shots during normal shooting would use an inside pivot, with the only exceptions being straight or almost straight shots and any shots that are in the transition areas between the various aim points.
Thanks AtLarge for clearing this up!
Scott
Regarding the initial aim line, it should be fairly straight forward to work out. According to the DVD, the 1/2 tip pivot equals a 1/2 ball pivot on the object ball (anyone confirm?)
To find the initial aiming line, line up the cue through the cueball center, through the ghostball center, and reverse the 1/2 tip pivot. This should bring you to the initial aiming line. I tried making a crude diagram of where the aim line should be, if it is always a 1/2 ball pivot.
yellow ball = ghost ball
orange ball = object ball
white ball = cueball
black arrows = CTEL and ABC lines
green line = object ball target path
red line = pre-pivot aim line
purple line = post-pivot aim line
The first two are "B" with outside pivot. The last one is "C" with inside pivot. I was guessing at the pivoting point, but I imagine this should be in a place that creates a 1/2 tip off-center of cueball. ???
Maybe this is completely off-base (ie WRONG), but maybe a good starting point for discussion
Very nice diagrams.
It looks like your pre-pivot offset is greater than a 1/2 tip offset (Stan) so your resulting cut angles will be different if you use a 1/2 tip offset - edge of shaft aimed at the center of the CB.
Your bridge distance from the CB is changing for each diagram - can you remember that distance for different cut angles at the table?
Thanks.:wink::thumbup:
My second diagram is probably a closer approximation. The pivot points are a guess. I was trying to figure out what 1/2 tip pivot would equal 1/2 ball pivot.
Oh,:wink: I see you were reverse engineering.
This is 3 shots with a 1/2 tip offset pre-pivot.
- A constant bridge distance behind the CB.
- The secondary aim line are aimed at different OB fractions.
- 3 close shots and 3 shots farther away with the same cut angles.
- The 3 OBs farter away appear smaller and the secondary aim line adjusts accordingly.
The CTE line is not significant after the eye/body/stance moves to the secondary aim line.
Just saying.:thumbup:
- A constant bridge distance behind the CB.
- The secondary aim line are aimed at different OB fractions.
- 3 close shots and 3 shots farther away with the same cut angles.
- The 3 OBs farter away appear smaller and the secondary aim line adjusts accordingly.
The CTE line is not significant after the eye/body/stance moves to the secondary aim line.
Just saying.:thumbup:
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I think I'm finally Starting to Get it....
I've been practising CTE for about a month and today I really started to feel
like I was getting somewhere;
- I threw out 15 balls on the table and ran out straight pool style.
- did this successfully 3 more times missing only twice
- on each shot I used Stan's CTE aiming system
- I was using the CTE/Pro1 (instead of manual pivoting)
Here are some random thoughts I have now about the whole thing
-that I had been pivoting all along even before I knew about CTE but wasn't conscious of it
- It's now totally obvious on almost every shot how to align myself.(A,B,C etc)
- sometimes I would forget , but then I would get back up and ask
wait... where's the CTE line??
- I found the most important part was the initial alignment -approaching the CTE line offset to the line of the shot
- then I would focus on the CTE line and slowly get my body in line.
-the most important chapter in Stan's video for me is Chapter 4 - Pivoting.
- sometimes when down on the shot and feathering it didn't look right
but focused hard on hitting centre ball anyway and it went in.
the few times I missed it was because I didnt trust the alignment , and made some last minute adjustments (unnecessarily of course)
-that just about every thing I've read in this thread is pretty much useless,including my own posts :wink: , the only way to get it is by doing it
- its not a system to understand initially and then do it --it works in reverse
-you "get it" by "doing it" and then it makes sense
I've been practising CTE for about a month and today I really started to feel
like I was getting somewhere;
- I threw out 15 balls on the table and ran out straight pool style.
- did this successfully 3 more times missing only twice
- on each shot I used Stan's CTE aiming system
- I was using the CTE/Pro1 (instead of manual pivoting)
Here are some random thoughts I have now about the whole thing
-that I had been pivoting all along even before I knew about CTE but wasn't conscious of it
- It's now totally obvious on almost every shot how to align myself.(A,B,C etc)
- sometimes I would forget , but then I would get back up and ask
wait... where's the CTE line??
- I found the most important part was the initial alignment -approaching the CTE line offset to the line of the shot
- then I would focus on the CTE line and slowly get my body in line.
-the most important chapter in Stan's video for me is Chapter 4 - Pivoting.
- sometimes when down on the shot and feathering it didn't look right
but focused hard on hitting centre ball anyway and it went in.
the few times I missed it was because I didnt trust the alignment , and made some last minute adjustments (unnecessarily of course)
-that just about every thing I've read in this thread is pretty much useless,including my own posts :wink: , the only way to get it is by doing it
- its not a system to understand initially and then do it --it works in reverse
-you "get it" by "doing it" and then it makes sense
can you elaborate that statement?