tired about hearing about jump cues

R

rc_collins

Registered
Jump cues are garbage. I am a crappy player and I can jump over a ball one ball width away with a bungee jumper. There are very few pool shots that takes less skill than a jump shot. Nowadays it is barely worth learning how to kick at a ball. Takes away from the strategy of the game, esp 1P and 14.1. Anybody who owns one of these crappy devices are helping to drive the great game of pool to the level of bowling, curling or ping-pong. Makes you respect Efren, who won't (not can't) jump a ball.

RC

"mother green and her killing machine"
 
rc_collins said:
Jump cues are garbage. I am a crappy player and I can jump over a ball one ball width away with a bungee jumper. There are very few pool shots that takes less skill than a jump shot. Nowadays it is barely worth learning how to kick at a ball. Takes away from the strategy of the game, esp 1P and 14.1. Anybody who owns one of these crappy devices are helping to drive the great game of pool to the level of bowling, curling or ping-pong. Makes you respect Efren, who won't (not can't) jump a ball.

RC

"mother green and her killing machine"
Click to expand...

You kick many many times more then you jump. If you can't kick you are at a big disadvantage even with a jump cue in the case. I don't know what you are talking about, I have never seen anyone jump playing 14-1 or one pocket.
 
macguy said:
You kick many many times more then you jump. If you can't kick you are at a big disadvantage even with a jump cue in the case. I don't know what you are talking about, I have never seen anyone jump playing 14-1 or one pocket.
Click to expand...

That's definitely a well reasoned argument, but............

The truth is that far too many jump because they've never spent enough time learning to kick. You know why? Because they have a jump cue. I've seen many "D" players that are halfway decent at jumps but can't kick to save their lives.

Only twice have I ever seen a jump cue come out in 14.1 and it truly made me sick. To my recollection, no jump cues were used in the 2000 US Open 14.1 Championship event, and I attended every session of that tournament.

The jump cue is probably here to stay, though. Sad, but true.
 
Actually if the new IPT last past the first year or two, the jump cue is history:D The jump my not be gone, but the jump cue will be. I don't jump much at all and when I have I used my regular playing cue, this is the way I think it should be.
 
When i started to actually learn to shoot pool instead of just banging balls, i acquired a Omen J/b on a trade for a Schon i had. Well needless to say, i couldnt jump the CB to save my life lol. So instead i learn to kick at balls, and when i learned about how english affected the CB off the rails, i could kick at a ball pretty good, and could 75% of the time hit the OB. I still kick at balls more, because of playing APA 9ball.

And if a player can do a saftey good enough, he will leave you no room for a jump, so you will have to kick at it.

Many of times, i have just practiced safties and kicking at balls, And just kicking at balls and seeing if i can play safe, and then keep it going. its a good way to practice playing safe and then kicking at a ball.

Plus you would be suprised at peoples reaction when i do a 3 or 4 rail kick and hit the OB.

Dave
 
Players sell out the shot more often than not after using a jump cue. However, the problem most people have with the cues is that in most situations, the kick shot is much tougher than the jump, and getting ball in hand is a much bigger advantage than just being left a makeable shot. Another debate that is used on this matter, is that 9-ball has alot of luck involved, such in that someone can miss a ball and leave their opponent safe (which happens alot), and that if their opponent doesn't make legal contact they give up ball in hand. Basically the incoming player is getting penalized for the other player getting lucky and winding up safe. With the two-push out rule no longer in effect, some people feel that ball in hand in all situations is a little extreme, and that something that allows you to make legal contact easier should be allowed. In my opinion, I see lucky safes happen all the time, and personally I like to see someone jump the ball and make it or safe them back, hell even if it happens to me. I just don't like seeing people win because of luck. Jump cues should not be banned.
 
Better option

rc_collins said:
Jump cues are garbage. I am a crappy player and I can jump over a ball one ball width away with a bungee jumper. There are very few pool shots that takes less skill than a jump shot. Nowadays it is barely worth learning how to kick at a ball. Takes away from the strategy of the game, esp 1P and 14.1. Anybody who owns one of these crappy devices are helping to drive the great game of pool to the level of bowling, curling or ping-pong. Makes you respect Efren, who won't (not can't) jump a ball.

RC

"mother green and her killing machine"
Click to expand...

Last night I was left with the following after my opponent broke. I ask outloud what do you think I should do? Here is the layout.

START(
%AM9H0%BD3N1%CE1L6%DH2J2%ES4I1%FW2X8%GL9N8%Ha5T2%II2D1%PZ7K6

)END

Jump I was told by a guy sitting and watching. I said no, I will now kick the nine in. I will bank the cue and carom off the one and put th nine in. Why? because even if I miss I can leave a pretty good safe.

Here is the shot.

Here is the result. (sorry I do not know how to do tha paths so I did the best I could)

START(
%AM9H0%BD3N1%CE1L6%DH2J2%ES4I1%FW2X8%GL9N8%Ha5T2%II2D1%PZ7K6
%YT1D5%ZY8J4%[J5D3%\N0G0%]N4G3%^S5C8
)END


Anyway, if I jumped, there is no pocket for the 2. Next, I did not miss a single kick giving my oponent ball in hand at all during 3 sets of 9 ball in a race to 9.

Actually, any that know me will tell you that it is rare that I miss a lick. They will also tell that my kicks normally end in a tough shot or a safe. (Sometimes this is not possible) In other words I always look at the best kick opportunitiy. 1. My kick path (ussually there are options) 2. Where I intend to kick my object ball and where it will end up 3. Where I want the cue ball to end up after the kick.

I do jump on rare occassions, with my playing cue. Playing 3 cushion billiards is knowing the game and I spend about an hour a week playing when possible.
 
rc_collins said:
Makes you respect Efren, who won't (not can't) jump a ball.

RC
Click to expand...

makes me not respect people like you who don't know what they're talking about. efren does, can, will, jump and will do it when he needs too. i have seen him jump MANY times.

VAP
 
vapoolplayer said:
makes me not respect people like you who don't know what they're talking about. efren does, can, will, jump and will do it when he needs too. i have seen him jump MANY times.

VAP
Click to expand...


oh and he uses a JUMP CUE to jump with, not his playing cue.

VAP
 
vapoolplayer said:
oh and he uses a JUMP CUE to jump with, not his playing cue.

VAP
Click to expand...

VAP is right! Efren jumps like a madman with a jump cue.

Personally, I use a jump cue, but use it sparingly. I'll only use it if a kick isn't a reasonable option, and I don't consider a 4 or 5 rail kick a reasonable option when I can jump without hitting a cushion.

That being said, I think the jump cue is overused/abused quite a lot. I see guys jump out of safeties that are easy one or two rail "kick-to-hit" shots. I just don't feel like most players have the kind of control over a jump shot that they would over a kick shot if they would practice their kicking.

Later,
Bob
 
My thoughts

pete lafond said:
Last night I was left with the following after my opponent broke. I ask outloud what do you think I should do? Here is the layout.

START(
%AM9H0%BD3N1%CE1L6%DH2J2%ES4I1%FW2X8%GL9N8%Ha5T2%II2D1%PZ7K6

)END

Jump I was told by a guy sitting and watching. I said no, I will now kick the nine in. I will bank the cue and carom off the one and put th nine in. Why? because even if I miss I can leave a pretty good safe.

Here is the shot.

Here is the result. (sorry I do not know how to do tha paths so I did the best I could)

START(
%AM9H0%BD3N1%CE1L6%DH2J2%ES4I1%FW2X8%GL9N8%Ha5T2%II2D1%PZ7K6
%YT1D5%ZY8J4%[J5D3%\N0G0%]N4G3%^S5C8
)END


Anyway, if I jumped, there is no pocket for the 2. Next, I did not miss a single kick giving my oponent ball in hand at all during 3 sets of 9 ball in a race to 9.

Actually, any that know me will tell you that it is rare that I miss a lick. They will also tell that my kicks normally end in a tough shot or a safe. (Sometimes this is not possible) In other words I always look at the best kick opportunitiy. 1. My kick path (ussually there are options) 2. Where I intend to kick my object ball and where it will end up 3. Where I want the cue ball to end up after the kick.

I do jump on rare occassions, with my playing cue. Playing 3 cushion billiards is knowing the game and I spend about an hour a week playing when possible.
Click to expand...


Personally, I think carom off the 1 into the 9 is represented a more of
an angle than it would actually be, even with inside english. Second,
you could make the 1 in the corner, hit the 9, but not make it, and be
left with a tough shot on the 2.

The first diagram seem to indicate a slight cut on the 1 to the right if
one jumped, which would carry the cue ball to the left some after the
jump, then you could play a safety on the 2 by just barely hitting it
on the left side, and taking your cur ball 2 rails with left hand english,
and bringing it up around the side pocket on the right side of the table
for a good safety.

I do not jump all the time either, I always weigh it against a kick, whether
I think I can make the jumpshot or just hit it, and the type of leave I
would get after a jump or after a kick.
 
Snapshot9 said:
Personally, I think carom off the 1 into the 9 is represented a more of
an angle than it would actually be, even with inside english. Second,
you could make the 1 in the corner, hit the 9, but not make it, and be
left with a tough shot on the 2.

The first diagram seem to indicate a slight cut on the 1 to the right if
one jumped, which would carry the cue ball to the left some after the
jump, then you could play a safety on the 2 by just barely hitting it
on the left side, and taking your cur ball 2 rails with left hand english,
and bringing it up around the side pocket on the right side of the table
for a good safety.

I do not jump all the time either, I always weigh it against a kick, whether
I think I can make the jumpshot or just hit it, and the type of leave I
would get after a jump or after a kick.
Click to expand...

I was hitting the 1 to the bottom rail towards the corner pocket. There was no way the 1 would pocket. I played the shot knowing the direction off my cue ball and where I was making contact with the 1 ball.. I also knew that if I did not make the nine, The cue ball would at least die on it and the one ball mid table. There was no problem hitting the nine at all.

I shot this shot to show the person who said jump, that there are much better ways. A two rail shot would have also worked as a safe. My interest was to show a much better option. I do understand if a player is not familiar with kicking accurately, why not break oput the jump stick. And if my opponent were shoting this shot and took out a jump stick, I would be excited knowing I know have an opportunity.

Also, jump would have meant no shot on the 2 ball. Another note where I play the pockets are shimmed and some of the pocket faces are incorrect. If you nearly make a shot, it almost always sits inside the pocket. Your opponent may now have a 1 ball inside the pocket which is now much easier to get out even with a difficult 2 ball.
 
rc_collins said:
Jump cues are garbage. I am a crappy player and I can jump over a ball one ball width away with a bungee jumper. There are very few pool shots that takes less skill than a jump shot. Nowadays it is barely worth learning how to kick at a ball. Takes away from the strategy of the game, esp 1P and 14.1. Anybody who owns one of these crappy devices are helping to drive the great game of pool to the level of bowling, curling or ping-pong. Makes you respect Efren, who won't (not can't) jump a ball.

RC

"mother green and her killing machine"
Click to expand...

Well, until you can bowl a 300, hit a ping ball coming at you at 30 miles an hour from 20 feet away from the table, or make a puck land within a three inch target from a 100 feet away you ought to reevaluate your ignorant statements.

If you are using a jump cue in 14.1 and 1P (which I believe you suck at much less know any strategy at either) then you are as clueless as your trolling post indicates. The fact that you don't know that Efren use a jump cue very proficiently is a further testament to your ignorance. And, lastly, "nowadays" it is of as much or more importance to learn to kick as ever before. Since you are obviously quite juvenile in your statements I guess you aren't old enough to have ever played two foul nine-ball.

I'll educate you; in two-foul nine ball the player at the table could push at any time. There was no need to kick. So, in the era of one-foul nine ball kicking, banking, and (gasp) jumping skills are required to succeed.

You will obviously stay a mediocre player no matter what equipment or training materials are available to you.

I am tired of hearing whiny assholes like yourself come in here with trolliing BS like this. Keep your ignorant opinons to yourself.

I will play you any day ten ahead for a thousand and I WILL NOT use a jump cue to do it.

Is that clear enough?

John
 
Yes. Efren does use the jump cue. I clearly remember seeing him using it on TV in the US Open last year. I think he made the shot too. In that situation he used it because kicking doesn't allow him to same ability to pocket the object ball and retain control of the cue ball afterwards for position.

Jump cue is a valid option if you know how to use it. I use it, but I only use it if I am reasonably confident that I can make the shot and get position on the next shot.

Make a ball jump is one thing, learning how to jump it with accuracy and control is another. Most players who can jump can only make the ball jump over the interferring ball with absolutely no control.

I dont' know any pro who doesn't jump. Almost all use a jump cue, except people like Strickland, who's an minority. Stop being ignorant, learn how to jump properly.
 
rc_collins said:
Jump cues are garbage. I am a crappy player and I can jump over a ball one ball width away with a bungee jumper. There are very few pool shots that takes less skill than a jump shot. Nowadays it is barely worth learning how to kick at a ball. Takes away from the strategy of the game, esp 1P and 14.1. Anybody who owns one of these crappy devices are helping to drive the great game of pool to the level of bowling, curling or ping-pong. Makes you respect Efren, who won't (not can't) jump a ball.

RC

"mother green and her killing machine"
Click to expand...


So plz tell us how u realy feel..
If u don't like them then don't use them ..But 4 people u have to use them don't HATE on them....Cause some can't kick and some can .I can kick good and jump also ..So i should make up my own mind to kick or jump ,and so should others..
 
I am not sure where you got the impression that I was "trolling". The only person that I ever insulted on this board was FL and I am still waiting on something that I bought from that guy. I said that jump cues detract from the game and people who using them are helping detract from the game. And I never said that bowling, curling and ping-pong are easy games. They are not near as complex and I think pools complexity is what makes it special. I used a jump cue before and I sold it for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Oversized tennis rackets with larger sweet spots made mens tennis unwatchable and I don't think that making pool easier by allowing jump cues is a great idea especially when 10th graders are now winning world championships.

Sorry if I offended.
 
rc_collins said:
I am not sure where you got the impression that I was "trolling". The only person that I ever insulted on this board was FL and I am still waiting on something that I bought from that guy. I said that jump cues detract from the game and people who using them are helping detract from the game. And I never said that bowling, curling and ping-pong are easy games. They are not near as complex and I think pools complexity is what makes it special. I used a jump cue before and I sold it for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Oversized tennis rackets with larger sweet spots made mens tennis unwatchable and I don't think that making pool easier by allowing jump cues is a great idea especially when 10th graders are now winning world championships.

Sorry if I offended.
Click to expand...

That 10th grader ran out the last five racks with his opponent on the hill without using a jump cue on 4.25 inch pockets. He deserved to win. The fact that he won is a testament to the popularity of pool and the fact that more people have access to better instruction and better equipment than our predecessors did. That 10th grader and probably 99% of the rest of the field at the WC use jump cues because they are a part of the game.

Just because you don't like them and choose to deprive yourself of the shots available to you with a jump cue and practice is no reason for you to ignorantly say they are causing the decline of the game.

Pool is not any more complex than any other sport. In a lot of ways it is easier than some.

Here is what it boils down to; when everyone has the same equipment then better skill prevails more often than not. If everyone plays with bigger tennis raquets then whoever plays better wins.

I recently had a debate with a well known player who is anti-jump cue (although he uses a "jump" cue himself) and he proceeded to tell me that a player shouldn't be able to jump and hit a shot he had set up. He said that it should take "skill" to hit it while he proceeded to miss the kick six times in a row. He made it on the seventh attempt. I told him I could hit the ball with a kick shot 100% of the time. Not only did he not believe me he wouldn't even allow me to prove it. The reason I can hit that kick shot 100% of the time is because I know the right system to do so.

So I could kick that shot better than the world champion I was debating with. Does that mean I have any prayer of beating him? Of course not. The jump cue, the diamond system, aiming systems, a layered tip, and any other tool will not compensate for an overpowering barrage of talent, skill and experience this world champion brings to the table.

None of these things make up for a deficiency in skill. RC, you need to work on your game and not put the blame for your shortcomings on the tools of the game. Professionals use every legal tool available to them. Every professional pool player I know uses jump cues with varying degrees of proficiency.

John
 
rc_collins said:
Oversized tennis rackets with larger sweet spots made mens tennis unwatchable
Click to expand...

I don't think you have any idea of what you're talking about here. The level of play and skill of the current generation of professional tennis players is the highest as it has ever been. If you've watched enough tennis, you would've known that. Also, the majority of tennis players (95%+) don't use over-sized racquets. The biggest racquet face they would use is 95, and most use 90 or smaller. Federer uses a 85 inch squared. The type of racquets the pros use are far too hard to hit consistently for the average recreational player.
 
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