To Nelsonite, or Not to Nelsonite

billiardbum

billiardbum

Listen U Might Learn!!!
Silver Member
Cuemakers...
Just getting opinions if you use this or not? If so when do you dip the pieces of wood, and for how long? I have used this stuff for ever, but man does the smell get to me. There is another product on the market, but not sure the smell of it, and cannot remember the name of it. I am dipping my pieces first cut, for about a minute or two, and never soaking the pieces again. Thanks for all your replys...
Jim
 
billiardbum said:
Cuemakers...
Just getting opinions if you use this or not? If so when do you dip the pieces of wood, and for how long? I have used this stuff for ever, but man does the smell get to me. There is another product on the market, but not sure the smell of it, and cannot remember the name of it. I am dipping my pieces first cut, for about a minute or two, and never soaking the pieces again. Thanks for all your replys...
Jim
Click to expand...

I dip mine three times for about a minute or so. After the first cut, after the third cut then again after the sixth. My shafts are approx. 13 3/4 after the sixth cut. I make one more cut after that which leaves them white again so that I can see what the blank looks like before my final cut after installing a ferrule and deco-rings when making a shaft.

Dick
 
Nelsonite or Not?

billiardbum said:
Cuemakers...
Just getting opinions if you use this or not? If so when do you dip the pieces of wood, and for how long? I have used this stuff for ever, but man does the smell get to me. There is another product on the market, but not sure the smell of it, and cannot remember the name of it. I am dipping my pieces first cut, for about a minute or two, and never soaking the pieces again. Thanks for all your replys...
Jim
Click to expand...

I agree that Nelsonite smells awful; but get used to it if you want to prevent warpage.

Years ago (before I used Nelsonite) I was having serious problems with warpage even with seasoned wood. I decided to try Nelsonite and called the Manufacturer and was told to dip the stock for 21 seconds. He said that any more time would be unnecessary because their test indicated that maximum penetration would be achieved in only 21 seconds. That is what I started doing and it has worked for me.

I dip my wood every time it is turned or tapered.
 
Nelsonite

I have talked to a couple of major cue builders about this several years ago. I won't mention names but one tod me he dipped them every time he cut the shaft. I think he told me he dipped them for 20 seconds. I talked to a shft supply out of New York and ask them if they Nelsonited their shafts and they said no, as it tends to petrify the wood. After they told me that, I quit using it. I don't like the smell either. You should use it in a well ventilated area. I didn't find that it helped that much. I have dipped shafts in it and I have dipped butts in it. I have still had them move. Just my opinion. Butterflycues
 
Just another opinion.....

butterflycues said:
.....I talked to a shft supply out of New York and ask them if they Nelsonited their shafts and they said no, as it tends to petrify the wood. After they told me that, I quit using it..... Just my opinion. Butterflycues
Click to expand...

I have no experience with Nelsonite, but it just makes sense that anything that prevents wood from warping would have to change the basic characteristics of the wood. I'll stick with "natural".
 
butterflycues said:
I have talked to a couple of major cue builders about this several years ago. I won't mention names but one tod me he dipped them every time he cut the shaft. I think he told me he dipped them for 20 seconds. I talked to a shft supply out of New York and ask them if they Nelsonited their shafts and they said no, as it tends to petrify the wood. After they told me that, I quit using it. I don't like the smell either. You should use it in a well ventilated area. I didn't find that it helped that much. I have dipped shafts in it and I have dipped butts in it. I have still had them move. Just my opinion. Butterflycues
Click to expand...

The "shaft supply" out of New York don't know what they are talking about. Nelsonite does not petrify wood. It has been used by many successful cuemakers for many years even though it does smell bad. They probably don't use it because it is a "pain in the a**" and is labor intensive. We already know it smells bad and is expensive but the wood appreciates it :).

One of the reasons it smells is the Tung oil which is one of the ingrediants: For centuries tung oil has been used for paints and waterproof coatings. It is commonly used for a lustrous finish on wood. In fact, the "teak oil" sold for fine furniture is usually refined tung oil. Some woodworkers consider tung oil to be one of the best natural finishes for wood. Tung oil 's ability to dry quickly and polymerize into a tough, glossy, waterproof coating has made it especially valuable in paints and varnishes.

I dip mine outside and hang in the sun for about 8 hours and it definitely stabilized wood. I agree that some pieces warp regardless of what you do but that does not suggest to me that I no longer use Nelsonite because the occasional maladjusted piece of wood does not behave properly.

BTW - Nelsonite is not a short-cut to curing wood. Too many new cuemakers think they can dip in Nelsonite and use the wood immediately. You still need to season your wood for best results.

Good Cuemaking :)
 
We use Nelsonite because it really is a must to reduce warpage. But honestly, a non-treated shaft vs. a treated shaft as far as feel & playability goes, I think that non-treated wins hands down.

Nelsonite seems to me to stiffen up the wood and perhaps take away some of the woods' natural oily-ness (sp?). Not a terrible qualiity as long as the shaft is consistent.
 
billiardbum said:
Cuemakers...
Just getting opinions if you use this or not? If so when do you dip the pieces of wood, and for how long? I have used this stuff for ever, but man does the smell get to me. There is another product on the market, but not sure the smell of it, and cannot remember the name of it. I am dipping my pieces first cut, for about a minute or two, and never soaking the pieces again. Thanks for all your replys...
Jim
Click to expand...

I dip my shaft and butt in Nelsonite for a minute but only before the last cut. I have had customers tell me they can still smell it months after it has been dipped but when I explain the reason for dipping they live with it until it goes away. I feel it is probably only the shaft that they can smell because the butt is coated.
 
I don't see the need for it. I have found that if you pick the right boards to start with then give them plenty of time to aclimitize before making into dowels this alleviates most of the warping. It seems to me that grain run out is the biggest factor in warpage. I seal my shafts well after final turn and I have not had much problems with warpage. IMO Nelsonite is just a way of preventing warpage during the manufacturing process but does little after the cue is finished. I also believe the climate the builder lives in is also a big factor in whether they use Nelsonite.
 
nelsonite

just curious
is there another product that does the same thing Nelsonite does?
another brand maybe?
 
stix4sale said:
just curious
is there another product that does the same thing Nelsonite does?
another brand maybe?
Click to expand...

Prolly the main use for nelsonite is minimizing the release and absorption of moisture by the shaft wood... which is one of the factors that cause warpage. try to research for stuff they use to seal wooden pool decks and such...
 
hadjcues said:
Prolly the main use for nelsonite is minimizing the release and absorption of moisture by the shaft wood... which is one of the factors that cause warpage. try to research for stuff they use to seal wooden pool decks and such...
Click to expand...




I have a few questions, and your quote prompted the thought again Hadj, so i hope you don't mind me quoting in on ya.

First off let me say that I do have nelsonite that I aquired directly from them about 2 years ago for the purpose of dipping shafts, but Here's the part that's confusing me, well not really, but what I'm thinking is- so say you seal this shaft, say It's got, what atleast 6% moisture on average. if you seal that off, then what's to come of it? is that 6% a good thing to be trapping in there, or is it such minimal amount that it's no risk of movent? I understand that the stuff prevents moisture from entering and leaving,, and even possibly on a butt section this would not apply as much as a shaft dia., so I hope My question is clear enough.

There seems to be 2 schools of thought, and I have heard that (taper asside) the nelsonite stiffens the shafts up, is this true? My indications personally seem to back this up to some extent, but can't say that beyond a shadow of dought, because the shaftwood I'm basing this off of could be different. The reason I ask Is because I've not only heard it here or amoung other makers, but players as well, so that makes me wonder if there Is some truth to it or not?

I am in no way suggesting one way is better then the other, or trying to stir anything up, but rather I am interested, because seems I have a market for both the more forgiving shafts and the stiffer ones.

Also wondering how much the proccess used to initially dry the dowels plays into the senerio? Vac dryed verses kiln.

I'm hoping someone here will understand My reasoning behind the questions. as strange as it sounds, I've had stiff shafts, so I know alot of people prefer them, and in fact I do Myself, but I also have a market for the more forgiving shafts, and would like to eventually aquire both types of dowels.


Thanks, Greg
 
hadjcues said:
Prolly the main use for nelsonite is minimizing the release and absorption of moisture by the shaft wood... which is one of the factors that cause warpage. try to research for stuff they use to seal wooden pool decks and such...
Click to expand...
thompsons deck sealer?????
 
stix4sale said:
thompsons deck sealer?????
Click to expand...

Haven't tried it yet... if you can let us know how it is... I think it's what their product tells, sealing it from moisture and such...
 
hadjcues said:
Haven't tried it yet... if you can let us know how it is... I think it's what their product tells, sealing it from moisture and such...
Click to expand...
i'm just thinking out loud, that in this day and age of massive competition, there HAS to be other brands that perform as well if not better than nelsonite. without the stink hopefully!!! :D
 
I have tried Nelsonite for a brief period of time just for experimentation purposes. The Nelsonite seemed to come out of the shaft again after the shaft has been used for a while. I am not sure what it was. May be I did something wrong. It also appeared to make the shafts heavier.

CrazyCue, I understand your question. I think all shafts have some sort of moisture trapped inside the wood. I am not too sure but I think some fluid inside the wood cell is essential to give the wood strength. What I am thinking is if the wood is too dry, with no fluid in the structure, it really has nothing but cellulose in the cell to hold the structure. It would feel more brittle, don't you think?

If Nelsonite does indeed replace mositure, then the Nelosnite will replace mositure and become what keeps the cell structure rigid. At least that is what appears to me.

But I am really not too sure. I could be totally wrong here.

Richard
 
Thanks Sheldon & Richard,

I think you guys are on to what I wondering about. I know nelsonite as being called a stabilizer, so when I here the words seal or sealer It makes me wonder. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I kind of think of it as a oil based type product that would repel or displace moisture as Sheldon mentioned.

The use of the term Cell structure, does seem to be the area I am interested in, but I tend to use the words natural resins when I think about how It may effect the cell structure. I know atleast a few people including Myself that are curious as to what can change this when drying or stabilizing, in My case it's in hopes to aquire both type shafts. That's the reason I'm curoius about vac dried versus kiln dried also. After some discussion on this, I'm curious if the vac method of pulling away moisture has any effect in this area? Would a kiln dried shaft tend to be stiffer, or is there any difference? For a lack of better words, In theory, It seems like the kiln dried Might have more of a baking effect to it, but this is not My strong suit, so not something I can back up with cold facts, I am however very curious about It though.

Thanks Guys, Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
The use of the term Cell structure, does seem to be the area I am interested in, but I tend to use the words natural resins when I think about how It may effect the cell structure. I know atleast a few people including Myself that are curious as to what can change this when drying or stabilizing, in My case it's in hopes to aquire both type shafts.
Click to expand...

Some background material :

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/usda/ah188/chapter01.pdf

Dave
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top