To super glue or not super glue???
- Thread starter BHQ
- Start date
I've done a finish this way and it does seem to dull after a while. Just a quick re-buff and it shines nicely again.
I haven't experienced hairline cracking in the finish, but I've noticed that if I look down the cue, across the finish, it looked relatively smooth when I first finished the cue. Over time, I can now look down the cue and the finish looks like it has slight ripples in it. You can't feel it, but if you look down the cue in the glare of a light, the finish seems to be a bit wavy. The cuemaker that showed me this finishing technique said he gets the same results over time.
I haven't experienced hairline cracking in the finish, but I've noticed that if I look down the cue, across the finish, it looked relatively smooth when I first finished the cue. Over time, I can now look down the cue and the finish looks like it has slight ripples in it. You can't feel it, but if you look down the cue in the glare of a light, the finish seems to be a bit wavy. The cuemaker that showed me this finishing technique said he gets the same results over time.
flex super glue finish?
ok, finish is too hard according to some of you guys.
what about this FLEX super glue?
anyone ever try that on a cue?
http://www.bsiadhesives.com/Pages/hobby/ca.html
ok, finish is too hard according to some of you guys.
what about this FLEX super glue?
anyone ever try that on a cue?
http://www.bsiadhesives.com/Pages/hobby/ca.html
Sounds like your at a real cross road, clear coat is by far better than super glue, Here's another alternative that may help you, Schon uses an epoxy for finish, try calling them and see if that helps. Also, have you thought of the finish that Chris Hightower sells.
stix4sale said:
I know Dennis D. has used super glue in the past, I am suspecting that is why you are thinking about it. One thing I think you have to consider is how will it look a few years from now, you don't want work you are doing now to come back and haunt you. Try to do the best work you can using tried and true techniques, the work has already been done for you. That's one of the great things about this forum is you can benefit from not only others knowledge but not make the same mistakes they made.
Finishing your cue may not have much to do with how the cue plays but when it comes to the market place it is one of the things that sells the cue. If you really get your finishing techniques down you will dazzle the customer and hopefully the cue then lives up to the great appearance. A good reputation is not that hard to develop, but a bad one can be very hard to over come.
Brent! What did Dieckman say about long term effect with super glue and how many have he had to redo? My Dieckman is 5 yrs and still look new no problem shown.
This has been a pet of mine for a LONG time. I've been using the CA finish method on some things for a few years and I will say that this could easily be the subject of a very large book....hmmmm.... lol.
I had the cracking problems in the beginning. Not willing to write it off completely, I studied why it cracked. It was in fact because it was too hard. Urethane does not crack because it does not get that hard. CA glue is like urethane and epoxy in the fact that it can be mixed to be thin, thick, soft and hard, depending on how it is made. So, I hunted for glue that is not so hard. I found a guy in that business willing to work with me on it, and have never had that problem since we came up with the glue that I use now. Also have had to spend much time with different polishing techniques and materials.
Yellowing has never happened in my experience. I have also never had the dulling problem. I have a cue that I have been playing with for 3 years now, which has no cracks, is as shiny as the day I finished it, and looks great.
Cue makers usually try the CA finish for one reason only, that being because they think it will be quick and easy. That's what got me on it to start with, anyway. Then they usually give up on it when they have their very first difficult challenge from it. I have spent MUCH time trying to perfect the method. It is NOT easy. However, once you know how to do it, and have the right materials (glue, compounds and polish, etc), it is farily quick. I can now go from raw wood to a very good smooth glossy finish in about an hour.
To answer the remark about ripples and such, that can all be resolved with good sanding techniques. Sanding is the hardest part of using CA for a finish because you have to be MUCH better at sanding the surface down to even. Urethane is usually sprayed on, therefore it goes on much more evenly than CA, which is padded or brushed on. Therefore, with CA, you have much more sanding to do before you have a true flat and even surface. Most guys who have problems with ripples and scratches in the CA finish usually are just not paying enough attention to sanding before they buff it out.
Let me tell you there are MANY ways to skin this cat, boys. I THINK I have pretty damn good results now, but everytime I think I can't get it any better, I find something. Not saying I have it perfected, but I have been able to resolve all the problems I have had, as well as the ones you mentioned so far. I have delivered finished cues to customers and been told how wonderful the URETHANE looks... when it AINT urethane. =)
If I can help anyone with it, let me know.
JWP
I had the cracking problems in the beginning. Not willing to write it off completely, I studied why it cracked. It was in fact because it was too hard. Urethane does not crack because it does not get that hard. CA glue is like urethane and epoxy in the fact that it can be mixed to be thin, thick, soft and hard, depending on how it is made. So, I hunted for glue that is not so hard. I found a guy in that business willing to work with me on it, and have never had that problem since we came up with the glue that I use now. Also have had to spend much time with different polishing techniques and materials.
Yellowing has never happened in my experience. I have also never had the dulling problem. I have a cue that I have been playing with for 3 years now, which has no cracks, is as shiny as the day I finished it, and looks great.
Cue makers usually try the CA finish for one reason only, that being because they think it will be quick and easy. That's what got me on it to start with, anyway. Then they usually give up on it when they have their very first difficult challenge from it. I have spent MUCH time trying to perfect the method. It is NOT easy. However, once you know how to do it, and have the right materials (glue, compounds and polish, etc), it is farily quick. I can now go from raw wood to a very good smooth glossy finish in about an hour.
To answer the remark about ripples and such, that can all be resolved with good sanding techniques. Sanding is the hardest part of using CA for a finish because you have to be MUCH better at sanding the surface down to even. Urethane is usually sprayed on, therefore it goes on much more evenly than CA, which is padded or brushed on. Therefore, with CA, you have much more sanding to do before you have a true flat and even surface. Most guys who have problems with ripples and scratches in the CA finish usually are just not paying enough attention to sanding before they buff it out.
Let me tell you there are MANY ways to skin this cat, boys. I THINK I have pretty damn good results now, but everytime I think I can't get it any better, I find something. Not saying I have it perfected, but I have been able to resolve all the problems I have had, as well as the ones you mentioned so far. I have delivered finished cues to customers and been told how wonderful the URETHANE looks... when it AINT urethane. =)
If I can help anyone with it, let me know.
JWP
PetreeCues said:
I had some good results with the Hot stuff product. It was just on some wood joint protectors I made up for a guy but would not want to try a whole cue. They did really look good though, I doubt I could have done any better looking finish regardless what method I used so it can certainly be done.
Just so you know, Hot Stuff and all the Sattelite City glues are the ones that are too hard. Joint Protectors will likely be fine long term, but not cues. That red label Hot Stuff is what I used that cracked on me about 2 months old.
JWP
JWP
I can get a simple quick finish on a shaft with hot CA and have it finished in an hour, but it takes me days to do a butt. How are you able to get a butt done so quickly???
I use paper towels folded into squares and also have had success with squares of cardboard as a scraper turning the butt on the metal lathe around 700 rpm. I wait several minutes between coatings letting the lathe turn and do this about 50-60 coats before it sets at least 24 hours. Then I start up with 600 grit wet and dry and work my way up to 2500 wet sanding. I use three types of rubbing compounds and get a great shiny finish.
How do you get it done so quickly?? It's very difficult to fill in BEM.
John
I use paper towels folded into squares and also have had success with squares of cardboard as a scraper turning the butt on the metal lathe around 700 rpm. I wait several minutes between coatings letting the lathe turn and do this about 50-60 coats before it sets at least 24 hours. Then I start up with 600 grit wet and dry and work my way up to 2500 wet sanding. I use three types of rubbing compounds and get a great shiny finish.
How do you get it done so quickly?? It's very difficult to fill in BEM.
John
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jkmarshall_cues said:
Why the hurry in the first place?
If you're dead set on CA finish, start first with an epoxy as primer so you don't have to build up too many coats of CA.. paper towels must be flooding in your shop... then you sand down the epoxy and do your cyano thing... important to observe proper drying times.
But IMHO, HVLP gun-sprain' autoclear is the way to go.
HadjCues
Dieckman On Super Glue
Hello Guyzz and Girlzz:
Firstly: I have been using super glue as my cue finish for at least 10 years not 5 and HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM, never had to refinish one as the result of using this glue as a finish. Most peoples sweat is basic [in terms of PH] but about on out of ten have a slightly acidic sweat which will play hell with ALL FINISHES.
Secondly: any finish that is flat will eventually develop "ripples" over time as the wood goes thru its yearly ritual of growing and shrinking as a result of humidity changes in the environment. NO MATTER WHAT THE FINISH YOU USE, moisture will pass thru it, despite what most people think, causing this to happen.
Thirdly: the guy that went to the hospital, was he using and exhaust system while he was sanding it, or was he being stupid and sanding without ?? Just sanding even bare wood without an exhaust system can be bad for you, to say nothing of sanding a finish, no matter what it is. IF YOU DON'T EXHAUST, DON'T SAND, even a mask won't help much in this situation.
Fourthly: re-read what JW Petree said as he makes some very good points, especially one to the effect that those that end up not happy with super glue finishes may simply not be giving it enought time and using the wrong kind. Not all super glues are created equal, nor are they the same hardness. The same can be said of epoxies. I tried several kinds of epoxies, some of which gave of more irritating fumes than the others, some of which dried very brittle [not good, at least so I think], until I settled for the brand that I have been using for years now.
Fifthly: I am not saying that one finish is better than another, just that in my experience I am HAPPIER using super glue over EVERYTHING ELSE i have tried. Until you have tried sometime, don't knock it, otherwise it is just hearsay. My experience is that any finish that is not properly applied, nor properly sanded after it has cured [note that I use the word CURED, not DRIED, and there is a difference between a dry finish and a cured finish] will tend to come back and bite you, but again that does not happen to me as I know what I am doing, after all these years....
Good luck, Good Life, Good Game,
Dieckman, Builder of Magik Wandzzz
PS: No matter what finish you use, no matter how patient you are in putting it on, sanding and buffing it, there is always going to be some idiot out there than can ruin it and then blame you and your finish.....
Hello Guyzz and Girlzz:
Firstly: I have been using super glue as my cue finish for at least 10 years not 5 and HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM, never had to refinish one as the result of using this glue as a finish. Most peoples sweat is basic [in terms of PH] but about on out of ten have a slightly acidic sweat which will play hell with ALL FINISHES.
Secondly: any finish that is flat will eventually develop "ripples" over time as the wood goes thru its yearly ritual of growing and shrinking as a result of humidity changes in the environment. NO MATTER WHAT THE FINISH YOU USE, moisture will pass thru it, despite what most people think, causing this to happen.
Thirdly: the guy that went to the hospital, was he using and exhaust system while he was sanding it, or was he being stupid and sanding without ?? Just sanding even bare wood without an exhaust system can be bad for you, to say nothing of sanding a finish, no matter what it is. IF YOU DON'T EXHAUST, DON'T SAND, even a mask won't help much in this situation.
Fourthly: re-read what JW Petree said as he makes some very good points, especially one to the effect that those that end up not happy with super glue finishes may simply not be giving it enought time and using the wrong kind. Not all super glues are created equal, nor are they the same hardness. The same can be said of epoxies. I tried several kinds of epoxies, some of which gave of more irritating fumes than the others, some of which dried very brittle [not good, at least so I think], until I settled for the brand that I have been using for years now.
Fifthly: I am not saying that one finish is better than another, just that in my experience I am HAPPIER using super glue over EVERYTHING ELSE i have tried. Until you have tried sometime, don't knock it, otherwise it is just hearsay. My experience is that any finish that is not properly applied, nor properly sanded after it has cured [note that I use the word CURED, not DRIED, and there is a difference between a dry finish and a cured finish] will tend to come back and bite you, but again that does not happen to me as I know what I am doing, after all these years....
Good luck, Good Life, Good Game,
Dieckman, Builder of Magik Wandzzz
PS: No matter what finish you use, no matter how patient you are in putting it on, sanding and buffing it, there is always going to be some idiot out there than can ruin it and then blame you and your finish.....
Hadj:
Correct in what you say to observe proper drying times, or as I would put it: the finish must not only be dry but it must be cured before it is sanded. I let my cues with a super glue finish on them cure for over 5 days before I sand, and there is a difference. I imagine you do the same with your finish.
One Bone To Pick: you come across as knowing it all about finishes, but have you tried them all ??? I think it would be better if you said that the finish you use makes you happier than all the others you have tried, not that is necessarily better. Being humble is good. Try not to belittle what others are trying to do......
Good luck in your cue building endaevours.
Trying to be humble, but not suceeding,
Dieckman
Correct in what you say to observe proper drying times, or as I would put it: the finish must not only be dry but it must be cured before it is sanded. I let my cues with a super glue finish on them cure for over 5 days before I sand, and there is a difference. I imagine you do the same with your finish.
One Bone To Pick: you come across as knowing it all about finishes, but have you tried them all ??? I think it would be better if you said that the finish you use makes you happier than all the others you have tried, not that is necessarily better. Being humble is good. Try not to belittle what others are trying to do......
Good luck in your cue building endaevours.
Trying to be humble, but not suceeding,
Dieckman
Magik Wandzzzzz said:Hello Guyzz and Girlzz:
Firstly: I have been using super glue as my cue finish for at least 10 years not 5 and HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM, never had to refinish one as the result of using this glue as a finish. Most peoples sweat is basic [in terms of PH] but about on out of ten have a slightly acidic sweat which will play hell with ALL FINISHES.
Secondly: any finish that is flat will eventually develop "ripples" over time as the wood goes thru its yearly ritual of growing and shrinking as a result of humidity changes in the environment. NO MATTER WHAT THE FINISH YOU USE, moisture will pass thru it, despite what most people think, causing this to happen.
Thirdly: the guy that went to the hospital, was he using and exhaust system while he was sanding it, or was he being stupid and sanding without ?? Just sanding even bare wood without an exhaust system can be bad for you, to say nothing of sanding a finish, no matter what it is. IF YOU DON'T EXHAUST, DON'T SAND, even a mask won't help much in this situation.
Fourthly: re-read what JW Petree said as he makes some very good points, especially one to the effect that those that end up not happy with super glue finishes may simply not be giving it enought time and using the wrong kind. Not all super glues are created equal, nor are they the same hardness. The same can be said of epoxies. I tried several kinds of epoxies, some of which gave of more irritating fumes than the others, some of which dried very brittle [not good, at least so I think], until I settled for the brand that I have been using for years now.
Fifthly: I am not saying that one finish is better than another, just that in my experience I am HAPPIER using super glue over EVERYTHING ELSE i have tried. Until you have tried sometime, don't knock it, otherwise it is just hearsay. My experience is that any finish that is not properly applied, nor properly sanded after it has cured [note that I use the word CURED, not DRIED, and there is a difference between a dry finish and a cured finish] will tend to come back and bite you, but again that does not happen to me as I know what I am doing, after all these years....
Good luck, Good Life, Good Game,
Dieckman, Builder of Magik Wandzzz
PS: No matter what finish you use, no matter how patient you are in putting it on, sanding and buffing it, there is always going to be some idiot out there than can ruin it and then blame you and your finish.....
Will you share what brand you are using? Some may like to give it a try.