To super glue or not super glue???

hadjcues said:
Why the hurry in the first place?
If you're dead set on CA finish, start first with an epoxy as primer so you don't have to build up too many coats of CA.. paper towels must be flooding in your shop... then you sand down the epoxy and do your cyano thing... important to observe proper drying times.

But IMHO, HVLP gun-sprain' autoclear is the way to go.

HadjCues
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Not challenging, just asking, but can you tell me what is better about urethane?
 
PetreeCues said:
Not challenging, just asking, but can you tell me what is better about urethane?
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I know this was not addressed to me but I don't think there is any problem with how one chooses to do something over another. It often comes down to someone trying something that didn't work for them and saying it doesn't work and another doing the work to perfect it and having good results with what they do.

I have been using water born finish for several years and can't imagine getting better results with another finish not to mention how absolutely easy and safe it is to use. It took a lot of experimenting and trying different finishes before I found one that really fit the bill, although now there may be many, the technology is so quickly evolving.

I never mention it to anyone because there is a stigma around the water based finish but they have come such a long way I see no reason to use anything else anymore if you have the right finish.
 
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macguy said:
I know this was not addressed to me but I don't think there is any problem with how one chooses to do something over another. It often comes down to someone trying something that didn't work for them and saying it doesn't work and another doing the work to perfect it and having good results with what they do.

I have been using water born finish for several years and can't imagine getting better results with another finish not to mention how absolutely easy and safe it is to use. It took a lot of experimenting and trying different finishes before I found one that really fit the bill, although now there may be many, the technology is so quickly evolving.

I never mention it to anyone because there is a stigma around the water based finish but they have come such a long way I see no reason to use anything else anymore if you have the right finish.
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hey, i'd like to talk more to you about the waterborne finish. can you email me? for some reason, i can't send you a pm
thanks, brent
stix4sale@aol.com
 
CA makes for a nice finish

I was privlidged to visit DD at his shop over the weekend and I was amazed at the ease of his application of CA to finish a cue. I must admit it is worth investigating, and his choice of materials seems to have the longevity we need. I personally have been geared up to using auto clear sprayed on, in the old days I have painted many vehicles so spraying is not a worry for me, but Dennis had a simple eloquent system going that deserves merit. I feel there are a hundred approachs to solve any problem for every one attempt that I may make on my own.
I would also be interested in hearing more about waterborne finishes as to application techniques, I just assume spraying. And tack up time, drying time, as well as total time and temps needed to get a hard cure.
Can we see more on waterborne please, some may scoff, but ignore them, many of us have inquisitve minds that thirst for more on many subjects. I think the day I cannot learn to do something better is two days after I am cremated and the ashes scattered in the pockets of my commercial table, but not one second before! So please go on!!!
 
olsonsview said:
I was privlidged to visit DD at his shop over the weekend and I was amazed at the ease of his application of CA to finish a cue. I must admit it is worth investigating, and his choice of materials seems to have the longevity we need. I personally have been geared up to using auto clear sprayed on, in the old days I have painted many vehicles so spraying is not a worry for me, but Dennis had a simple eloquent system going that deserves merit. I feel there are a hundred approachs to solve any problem for every one attempt that I may make on my own.
I would also be interested in hearing more about waterborne finishes as to application techniques, I just assume spraying. And tack up time, drying time, as well as total time and temps needed to get a hard cure.
Can we see more on waterborne please, some may scoff, but ignore them, many of us have inquisitve minds that thirst for more on many subjects. I think the day I cannot learn to do something better is two days after I am cremated and the ashes scattered in the pockets of my commercial table, but not one second before! So please go on!!!
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True dat! I would also like to know how that is done!
 
PetreeCues said:
True dat! I would also like to know how that is done!
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This is the product I am using
http://www.compliantspraysystems.com/
Give them a call they are very nice people and will answer all your questions. I have tried other finishes in the past but this was by far the best for my needs. I don't want to debate the pros or cons of finish, you have to just try them and use what works best for you. I use an HVLP sprayer.

One of the things I like best with Enduro is the way the finish looks. Many Water born finishes although good, have a bluish look to them and can't be used over dark woods like Ebony. This finish has incredible optical clarity. The colors in the wood and inlayed look almost iridescent. Many finishes, even some of the most popular used by many cue makers I have seen at the shows, leave the cue looking like it has a plastic coating on it or something, you can't appreciate the beauty of the wood.

These people were at the BCA show a few years ago by the way and had a lot of guys talking with them. I would not be surprised if there are a few cue makers out there using their products but not telling anyone. Like I said in my other post there is sort of a stigma with the water born finishes or they may just be secretive. I think with so many repair and part time cue makers working in their houses the safety factor would be very appealing.

That's just a bonus though, it is a great finish, I can't think of any minuses, it meets, at least for me, all the needs I have for finishing cues. It's another choice to think about. I also use it with the cross linker.
 
All finishes have strengths and weaknesses. None are perfect and superglue is as good a finish as ANY, in my opinion.
Any finish can be applied incorrectly and end up being crappy, but by the same token, most can be applied very effectively.
 
Just got mine....any tips?

macguy said:
This is the product I am using
http://www.compliantspraysystems.com/
Give them a call they are very nice people and will answer all your questions. I have tried other finishes in the past but this was by far the best for my needs. I don't want to debate the pros or cons of finish, you have to just try them and use what works best for you. I use an HVLP sprayer.

One of the things I like best with Enduro is the way the finish looks. Many Water born finishes although good, have a bluish look to them and can't be used over dark woods like Ebony. This finish has incredible optical clarity. The colors in the wood and inlayed look almost iridescent. Many finishes, even some of the most popular used by many cue makers I have seen at the shows, leave the cue looking like it has a plastic coating on it or something, you can't appreciate the beauty of the wood.

These people were at the BCA show a few years ago by the way and had a lot of guys talking with them. I would not be surprised if there are a few cue makers out there using their products but not telling anyone. Like I said in my other post there is sort of a stigma with the water born finishes or they may just be secretive. I think with so many repair and part time cue makers working in their houses the safety factor would be very appealing.

That's just a bonus though, it is a great finish, I can't think of any minuses, it meets, at least for me, all the needs I have for finishing cues. It's another choice to think about. I also use it with the cross linker.
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I ordered this product after it was mentioned in another thread. Just got the shipment yesterday. I did not order the cross linker. Is this a must? Have you used it without the cross linker? Having actually used this product, do you have any particular tips (dos & don'ts ) for application?
 
Bill the Cat said:
I ordered this product after it was mentioned in another thread. Just got the shipment yesterday. I did not order the cross linker. Is this a must? Have you used it without the cross linker? Having actually used this product, do you have any particular tips (dos & don'ts ) for application?
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It works fine without the cross linker I just use it because it does make for a bit harder finish. I don't think you will have any problems just do a little practice on some scrap so you get the feel of laying it on without any runs. I spray the first coat light to give a surface for it to hang to, but then do wet coats sanding between each two coats.

It's high solids so it does not take a million coats to get a build. When someone says they are spraying 15 or 20 coats of finish ( Regardless what finish they are spraying, although some finish is lower solids and does require more coats), it's usually because they are spraying too light a coat each time, once the solvent evaporates there is hardly any finish left on the cue. You can't be afraid to put on the finish, you want to get a good build. It takes a little practice. Don't hesitate to give them a call they are very nice and can answer any questions.

I don't know what kind of gun you have but a trick I use is I buy 3 ounce little plastic cups at the grocery store and that is what I put the finish in. I put the small plastic cup with finish in it in the cup of the gun and put the feed tube in it and close the gun. This eliminates a lot of wasted finish and mess. You don't need much finish to do one cue if that is what you are spraying. Just be sure no to tip the gun too much when spraying.

I use it right out of the container just stir and strain. I transfer it to quart mason jars filled right to the top for storage so I can just use one jar at a time. I stir it good before transferring so it is mixed evenly. It has a long shelf life and unless you are doing a lot of straying a gallon can is going to last you a pretty long time so it is nice to not be prying open a can every time you want a few ounces. Can't really think of anything else It's very user friendly and any questions be sure to give them a call.
 
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Guess I'll just need to practice.

Thanks for the info macguy! I'm sure I'll have to practice some before laying it down on one of my babies ;-)

Just to save me some trial and error, how long do you wait between coats? I assume with the fast dry times that several coats can be applied during one spray session. Also, they say it can be sanded in 20-30 minutes. Is that correct? Do you let it cure longer before final buffing?

Lastly, they warn about taking extra care with sanding. Since there are no "hot" solvents, they say that blemishes will not be "melted" away. What grit do you use for the between coat sanding?
 
Bill the Cat said:
Thanks for the info macguy! I'm sure I'll have to practice some before laying it down on one of my babies ;-)

Just to save me some trial and error, how long do you wait between coats? I assume with the fast dry times that several coats can be applied during one spray session. Also, they say it can be sanded in 20-30 minutes. Is that correct? Do you let it cure longer before final buffing?

Lastly, they warn about taking extra care with sanding. Since there are no "hot" solvents, they say that blemishes will not be "melted" away. What grit do you use for the between coat sanding?
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Again you will have to experiment a little but I sand recoat after about half hour to 45 minutes. I don't really sand as much as I just dull the finish and maybe level any bad spots, you hope there aren't any, but it happens. You can't wait too long though because this stuff gets hard and can be tough to sand once it gets set up. They say you can speed up the dry time with an inferred lamp but I never tried it. Any questions or problems though be sure to give them a call, they will bend over backwards to help you. I wait a couple of days before final buffing out but don't wait too long before doing the finish sanding, like I said it gets hard.
 
Waterborne Finish

macguy said:
Again you will have to experiment a little but I sand recoat after about half hour to 45 minutes. I don't really sand as much as I just dull the finish and maybe level any bad spots, you hope there aren't any, but it happens. You can't wait too long though because this stuff gets hard and can be tough to sand once it gets set up. They say you can speed up the dry time with an inferred lamp but I never tried it. Any questions or problems though be sure to give them a call, they will bend over backwards to help you. I wait a couple of days before final buffing out but don't wait too long before doing the finish sanding, like I said it gets hard.
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Macguy,

Are you using a sealer on the wood before spraying? As with most everyone who enters into the world of cue building finish has always been an issue for me. I build a limited number of cues and long shelf life would be important as well as the safety factor. I am currently using a spar urethane and I have finally developed a system that delivers nice results. :) It took MANY experimentations and failures to get there. :confused: Once you figure out the right sanding techniques and right polishing compounds it becomes a much easier process.:D I would like to learn more and I am willing to share my techniques if anyone is interested.

Brian
 
bkkpool said:
Macguy,

Are you using a sealer on the wood before spraying? As with most everyone who enters into the world of cue building finish has always been an issue for me. I build a limited number of cues and long shelf life would be important as well as the safety factor. I am currently using a spar urethane and I have finally developed a system that delivers nice results. :) It took MANY experimentations and failures to get there. :confused: Once you figure out the right sanding techniques and right polishing compounds it becomes a much easier process.:D I would like to learn more and I am willing to share my techniques if anyone is interested.

Brian
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I seal the wood with west epoxy I have had good results with that. I believe it is very good also at limiting moisture exchange but you can use what ever you like, finish itself acts as a sealer. West may give a very slight tint to white or clear woods and some guys may not like that but I like the way it looks it gives a warmth and depth to the wood, some use it as a finish.

I should add that the tinting is very minimal when only being used as a sealer and not a complete finish. Woods like birdseed are actually very much enhanced, they take on a three dimensional look and really come alive.

It's a little bit of an expense but getting a good spray outfit has to be on the short list of any guy working on cues. Once you have the right tools what was a frustrating experience becomes the most rewarding part of the job.
 
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did i start all this??????

well, i just had my first bad experience with super glue
my double black buttcap and joint collars are no longer black
turned greyish, cloudy
dickie neighbors mentioned that might happen on my post i put on EPT
so, what's the answer to solve that problem?????
is it the accelerator that discolors linen & ebony?
just added:
i forgot to mention that i did wipe the cue down with laquer thinner prior to applying the CA
 
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macguy said:
I seal the wood with west epoxy I have had good results with that. I believe it is very good also at limiting moisture exchange but you can use what ever you like, finish itself acts as a sealer. West may give a very slight tint to white or clear woods and some guys may not like that but I like the way it looks it gives a warmth and depth to the wood, some use it as a finish.

I should add that the tinting is very minimal when only being used as a sealer and not a complete finish. Woods like birdseed are actually very much enhanced, they take on a three dimensional look and really come alive.

It's a little bit of an expense but getting a good spray outfit has to be on the short list of any guy working on cues. Once you have the right tools what was a frustrating experience becomes the most rewarding part of the job.
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mac, i ordered my starter kit today. i thought i'd give it a try. can't hurt, right. thanks for the info. brent
 
stix4sale said:
well, i just had my first bad experience with super glue
my double black buttcap and joint collars are no longer black
turned greyish, cloudy
dickie neighbors mentioned that might happen on my post i put on EPT
so, what's the answer to solve that problem?????
is it the accelerator that discolors linen & ebony?
just added:
i forgot to mention that i did wipe the cue down with laquer thinner prior to applying the CA
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added two days after above post
i sanded cue back to bare wood
this time, i wiped down with mineral spirits
and did NOT use the accelerator
my double black is black again
so, one of the two corrected it or coincidence?
my gut feeling tells me it's the accelerator that discolors the black linen

DSCF1073.jpg


the black on the predator hasn't been finished by me, i don't know exactly how old that shaft is
can you see the reflection of my camera in the joint?]
DSCF1077.jpg
 
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