TOI and a Z2 shaft
- Thread starter evis
- Start date
I've been using it for about three weeks now and play with a longoni/predator special edition with a Z2 shaft with a kamui black med. I think it works better with this shaft than a normal bar cue. I really have no problems with it but when CJ says when you are lining up the touch of inside its probably less than you think he is right. My immediate thing is to go down with about a tip of inside; you'll soon find that is usually too much. Just like when learning with a z2 you need to stay as close to center as you can. Any specific questions you have?
This really wakes even advanced players up about how inaccurate they really are
Yes, I worked with a gentleman earlier today and he just needed a "hair" of inside to create angle....his full range of angles of center were within a half a tip and mine are too. The cue ball is the target and the your "margin of tip error" is within one thirty second of an inch to hit the full range of the 3 Part Pocket Zone.
I worked with another player two days ago that swore he could consistently hit center. After a couple of tests he realized he definitely wasn't and had been hitting slightly off center for years with no way of knowing.
This is the main danger of trying to hit "perfect center", is if you don't and it veers/deflects, how will you know? What feedback tell you that you mis hit the cue ball as opposed to an alignment error?
This is what really wakes even advanced players up about how inaccurate they really are. When they have to start playing a slight deflection it turns the light on very brightly on how accurate and straight their stroke is. I have a few shots I set up that make this very obvious and it's even more obvious when they start to correct this stroking flaw.
It makes what they "think" is happening and what's actually happening align and become congruent. For many players the cue ball is quite simply NOT doing what they "think" it is. TOI proves this and fixes it at the root of the problem. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Yes, I worked with a gentleman earlier today and he just needed a "hair" of inside to create angle....his full range of angles of center were within a half a tip and mine are too. The cue ball is the target and the your "margin of tip error" is within one thirty second of an inch to hit the full range of the 3 Part Pocket Zone.
I worked with another player two days ago that swore he could consistently hit center. After a couple of tests he realized he definitely wasn't and had been hitting slightly off center for years with no way of knowing.
This is the main danger of trying to hit "perfect center", is if you don't and it veers/deflects, how will you know? What feedback tell you that you mis hit the cue ball as opposed to an alignment error?
This is what really wakes even advanced players up about how inaccurate they really are. When they have to start playing a slight deflection it turns the light on very brightly on how accurate and straight their stroke is. I have a few shots I set up that make this very obvious and it's even more obvious when they start to correct this stroking flaw.
It makes what they "think" is happening and what's actually happening align and become congruent. For many players the cue ball is quite simply NOT doing what they "think" it is. TOI proves this and fixes it at the root of the problem. 'The Game is the Teacher'
i have an OB Classic Pro (OB equivalent to Z2), i use the TOI but i don't go to the center of the object ball to aim. the shaft doesn't deflect enough. i always aim to the inside of the pocket with center english on the CB, then i parallel aim to TOI and it works perfect. that way you have pocket friendly english going to the inside if you undercut and 4.5 inches of pocket if you overcut it. my accuracy has increased 10-20%. its awesome. basically, if TOI is left, i aim to the right side point of the pocket, if TOI is right, aim to the left side point of the pocket.
i tried my stock Schon shaft. it deflects alot so then i could see lining up dead center and using more of the deflection for angles. anytime you use inside to lineup your shot, you are going to be more accurate because you are hitting through the contact point to the OB contact point. so much easier than using outside english and easier to control.
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Your end result is to have every shot "seem" the same
That's the right way to go about it. I calibrate my TOI to make the object ball hit the center of the pocket every time. When It's hitting the center that tells me I'm actually aligned to the inside of the pocket.
I let the object ball's entrance in the pocket tell me if I'm aligned correctly. This is advanced, because it's taking into consideration that my body's aligned correctly and I'm hitting the cue ball straight. If you are an advanced player I'd recommend you just make sure the object ball's hitting center with the TOI and if you undercut ANY shot, the next shot you adjust slightly.
Your end result is to have every shot "seem" the same and if this is to be true, you need to make minute adjustments with your TOI or speed as you play. If you don't do this you can slip and lose your connection to the pocket slightly.....over time this may result in some misses.
I like to make my adjustments BEFORE I make those misses. I'm sure this makes sense to the more advanced players, however, I don't think you will hear top pros talk about themselves doing this adjustment process. It's important! 'The Game is the Teacher'
That's the right way to go about it. I calibrate my TOI to make the object ball hit the center of the pocket every time. When It's hitting the center that tells me I'm actually aligned to the inside of the pocket.
I let the object ball's entrance in the pocket tell me if I'm aligned correctly. This is advanced, because it's taking into consideration that my body's aligned correctly and I'm hitting the cue ball straight. If you are an advanced player I'd recommend you just make sure the object ball's hitting center with the TOI and if you undercut ANY shot, the next shot you adjust slightly.
Your end result is to have every shot "seem" the same and if this is to be true, you need to make minute adjustments with your TOI or speed as you play. If you don't do this you can slip and lose your connection to the pocket slightly.....over time this may result in some misses.
I like to make my adjustments BEFORE I make those misses. I'm sure this makes sense to the more advanced players, however, I don't think you will hear top pros talk about themselves doing this adjustment process. It's important! 'The Game is the Teacher'
tip harness
CJ. Does the tip harness make a difference in how far from center you have to move to make the angle desired? I use a soft tip and I move a lot more than you just described. Sometimes past one full tip to get the 30 degree angle from center. Should I look to use a medium or hard tip to make the adjustments less? I generaly shoot vary hard and this is why I went soft in the first place.
CJ. Does the tip harness make a difference in how far from center you have to move to make the angle desired? I use a soft tip and I move a lot more than you just described. Sometimes past one full tip to get the 30 degree angle from center. Should I look to use a medium or hard tip to make the adjustments less? I generaly shoot vary hard and this is why I went soft in the first place.
Cues do make a difference come to find out
I've always preferred the harder tips myself because I feel like the feedback response is more intense, and reliable. The mm of the tip is also a factor and I will usually go under 12.5 and the shaft I only use for high dollar matches is under 12mm. This shaft is unbelievably accurate and the "quick spin" shots it can do with the TOI are uncanny. I just started using the old Bludworth I used in my gambling days and at the ESPN World Championships that I won. Cues do make a difference come to find out.
I've used various cues that I own the last couple of years, and the Bludworth is something special. I talked to Dennis O. about cues over lunch in Vegas and he said his cue was VERY important to his level of play. I guess he had his favorite one stolen and his game dropped for several months, I didn't realize it made that much of a difference, and it does. 'The Game is the Teacher'
I've always preferred the harder tips myself because I feel like the feedback response is more intense, and reliable. The mm of the tip is also a factor and I will usually go under 12.5 and the shaft I only use for high dollar matches is under 12mm. This shaft is unbelievably accurate and the "quick spin" shots it can do with the TOI are uncanny. I just started using the old Bludworth I used in my gambling days and at the ESPN World Championships that I won. Cues do make a difference come to find out.
I've used various cues that I own the last couple of years, and the Bludworth is something special. I talked to Dennis O. about cues over lunch in Vegas and he said his cue was VERY important to his level of play. I guess he had his favorite one stolen and his game dropped for several months, I didn't realize it made that much of a difference, and it does. 'The Game is the Teacher'
This is the issue I'm having and the way I compensate I had to be aware of the pocket plus on how I aligned with inside. With my cue I'm not able to go center to center with a toi and deflect the ball as much as CJ, I always end up under cutting the shot.
This is still new to me and I'm sure there's a ton of mechanics I need to work on ie stroke etc. I guess time will tell.
This is still new to me and I'm sure there's a ton of mechanics I need to work on ie stroke etc. I guess time will tell.
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me either
I don't get as much as cj either but I can use center ball. I just have to move more than he does. I also have a 13 mm tip, not sure if that or the soft tip makes for less squirt but it seems to deflect less than cj. The more I work at toi the better it is getting for me, so stay with it. My table is extremely tough to play and I am starting to run it now and I am super pleased with that. 3 7/8 pockets on a bertha.
I don't get as much as cj either but I can use center ball. I just have to move more than he does. I also have a 13 mm tip, not sure if that or the soft tip makes for less squirt but it seems to deflect less than cj. The more I work at toi the better it is getting for me, so stay with it. My table is extremely tough to play and I am starting to run it now and I am super pleased with that. 3 7/8 pockets on a bertha.
I suggest you use your back hand
I see this at first with new students. You are probably pivoting instead of moving the cue inside parallel. I suggest you use your back hand and move it over to make your tip move instead of concentrating only on your tip. You must move the whole cue and it's a very small amount.
Let me know if that helps.... CJ
I see this at first with new students. You are probably pivoting instead of moving the cue inside parallel. I suggest you use your back hand and move it over to make your tip move instead of concentrating only on your tip. You must move the whole cue and it's a very small amount.
Let me know if that helps.... CJ
Hey CJ...that was pretty dead on, I was pivoting and I didnt realize. The hardest thing now is staying straight on that line when I move the cue over and not let the Subconscious steer the cue. Also you were right, on normal cut shots it doesnt take more then just a hair of inside. At times it seemed like I didnt moved the cue at all.
when done correctly it's just a "hair"
Yes, I know this TOI System like "the back of my cue":wink: Just MAKE SURE you don't move your head and very limited movement of the body when moving TOI.
As long as you're moving your back hand you will force the move with your front (bridge) hand. And you are exactly right, when done correctly it's just a "hair". That's what the people I'm working with notice right away is I get more angle from less movement than they do.
I actually do it where you couldn't detect it and did it that way for years. I always said "if anyone in the room can tell I'm doing it {TOI}, I'm doing it too much"....and so it is.
Yes, I know this TOI System like "the back of my cue":wink: Just MAKE SURE you don't move your head and very limited movement of the body when moving TOI.
As long as you're moving your back hand you will force the move with your front (bridge) hand. And you are exactly right, when done correctly it's just a "hair". That's what the people I'm working with notice right away is I get more angle from less movement than they do.
I actually do it where you couldn't detect it and did it that way for years. I always said "if anyone in the room can tell I'm doing it {TOI}, I'm doing it too much"....and so it is.