TOI and Outside Spin

[Mikjary]

I started using TOI when CJ first began his instruction here on this forum. I have a really good sense of what I can do with it, so I decided to work a little more with outside spin.

I come down on every shot with my cue lined up with a hair of an inside setup. To get outside spin, CJ said he pivots over to center. I found I can pivot over to just past center or more and get very good outside spin on the cue ball. If I need 2 tips, I pivot further. Extreme outside is possible with a firm stroke if I decide to use it.

Some racks I use outside on several shots. Others, none. The most important thing is to come down on the shot with the TOI alignment. It allows your cueing to start from a consistent point. From there you can do what you need for position.

Don't feel like you're limited by using inside cueing when you have to use outside english. After you learn the ins and out of TOI, you can put your outside spin back into your tool box. It didn't go away. It's still there. You just don't need it unless you're in certain situations that call for it.

Best,
Mike

 

[JMS]

I have CJ's first instructional DVD that I bought a few years ago. In the dvd he presents the 3 part pocket system but he talks about throwing the ball in with outside spin. Nowhere in it does he talk about TOI (inside spin). Maybe he didn't want to share all of his secrets until now.

 

[8pack]

I have CJ's first instructional DVD that I bought a few years ago. In the dvd he presents the 3 part pocket system but he talks about throwing the ball in with outside spin. Nowhere in it does he talk about TOI (inside spin). Maybe he didn't want to share all of his secrets until now.

Now why woud he do that?:smile:
Aiming is like area 51.

 

[CJ Wiley]

there really aren't any "suckers" anymore, everyone has wised up

I have CJ's first instructional DVD that I bought a few years ago. In the dvd he presents the 3 part pocket system but he talks about throwing the ball in with outside spin. Nowhere in it does he talk about TOI (inside spin). Maybe he didn't want to share all of his secrets until now.

Yes, there were two reasons, the first was I knew it would shake up the pool world and would be extremely challenging to explain (it took me over 2000 posts on azbilliards and there's still people that don't understand the TOI)
- it basically changes how pocket billiards has been taught and understood. We road players always joked about never "wising up the suckers," however, we never saw the day coming when there were no more suckers. It's fine with me, my hustling days are far behind me, it's just sad that the younger generation won't have the opportunity to get hustled unless they play the stock market. :withstupid:

Because of cell phones and the internet (and getting beat many times) there aren't many pool "suckers" anymore, everyone has wised up, and just refuse to play strangers - or want a HUGE spot from the champion speed {road}players. The 5/7 and the break is what I'm usually ask for to play "short stop" players, which I can't give them is they're using the TOI.

The 2nd reason was the TOI technique was only shared by a certain group of road players and {I} would have felt like a betrayer of the road player code if I would have disclosed "The Touch". Now, the gambling is all over, there's no more road players, and the ones I was close to are either retired, dead, or in a "vacation home".

What Mike says in this post is correct, you can use any spin you choose as long as you come down TOI FIRST. It will automatically compensate for the veer/spin ratio, however, I would still suggest you use the inside part of the cue ball for 90% of your shots.

The only time I use the "other side" of the cue ball is for changing the angle off the cushions (banks too) and if I have to curve the cue ball.....also if I'm very close to the object ball I'll "spin it in" once in awhile, depending on the elements (humidity,dirt, etc).

The players that are giving me a lot of feedback (on a daily basis) are watching the TOI Video 5 times before they're absorbing the essential elements. I can teach someone TOI in 12-15 hours, however, it will take approximately 3 weeks, playing 1-2 hours a day to pick your game up noticeably on your own. I am available to answer any questions at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com

I would recommend watching the DVD 5 times and put 12-15 hours in yourself, then send me some questions. If you start trying to "mix and match" other systems with TOI you will be in for a confusing and frustrating time.....start out ONLY using the "Touch" of inside for three straight hours - watch the DVD again and you'll notice subtle information that slipped by the first time. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[One Pocket John]

I started using TOI when CJ first began his instruction here on this forum. I have a really good sense of what I can do with it, so I decided to work a little more with outside spin.

I come down on every shot with my cue lined up with a hair of an inside setup. To get outside spin, CJ said he pivots over to center. I found I can pivot over to just past center or more and get very good outside spin on the cue ball. If I need 2 tips, I pivot further. Extreme outside is possible with a firm stroke if I decide to use it.

Some racks I use outside on several shots. Others, none. The most important thing is to come down on the shot with the TOI alignment. It allows your cueing to start from a consistent point. From there you can do what you need for position.

Don't feel like you're limited by using inside cueing when you have to use outside english. After you learn the ins and out of TOI, you can put your outside spin back into your tool box. It didn't go away. It's still there. You just don't need it unless you're in certain situations that call for it.

Best,
Mike

Thanks Mike,

I give it a go. :smile:

John

 

[CJ Wiley]

two more days of filming the TOI Banking video

Thanks Mike,

I give it a go. :smile:

John

I've got two more days of filming the TOI Banking video, let me know if there's anything special you'd like me to include. My banking has improved 300% since I started making this video, of course it's been awhile since I practiced banks, especially exclusively. .

Let me know, I'll finish Friday and go into post production over the weekend.

Play Well, 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[dfranklin]

I've got two more days of filming the TOI Banking video, let me know if there's anything special you'd like me to include. My banking has improved 300% since I started making this video, of course it's been awhile since I practiced banks, especially exclusively. .

Let me know, I'll finish Friday and go into post production over the weekend.

Play Well, 'The Game is the Teacher'

do I get 1st copy????.... my position play has increased very significantly since I started looking for the zone. Im putting in a solid 2-3 hrs a day using nothing but TOI...im determined to learn it and "let the game be my teacher"..Thanks CJ..

 

[One Pocket John]

I've got two more days of filming the TOI Banking video, let me know if there's anything special you'd like me to include. My banking has improved 300% since I started making this video, of course it's been awhile since I practiced banks, especially exclusively. .

Let me know, I'll finish Friday and go into post production over the weekend.

Play Well, 'The Game is the Teacher'

This may be a little to much to ask.........but, two railers into the corner pocket from half table and "Z" banks from the other end of the table into a lower corner pocket.

I have all of Tor Lowery's videos, all three are great. The videos I focus on more are the kicking and banking videos. The kicking video is a must for all serious players. Comes in real handy for getting out of traps.

Thanks CJ for all that you do and all that you contribute.

I have started listening to Zen Concentration and Focus music on YouTube during my practice times. Its better than stone cold silence.

Have a good day.

John

 

[Mikjary]

I learned to swivel from using the 90/90 aiming system by Ron Vitello. I'm a stroke purist and don't like my arm to move away from my body or off of the original shot line. Instead I swivel/pivot my hips/torso slightly in order to keep everything, including my head, over the new shot line.

I do this pre-shot before my final stroke. I can do this cross over stroke as I contact the cue ball, but it is more of a challenge. I only use this method, ala Larry Nevel when I need to come with the spin. I'm mainly a pre-shot swiveler, like a gun turret...everything locked in place.

After you swivel/pivot, your head is over a new shot line. If you shoot without english, you'll miss badly. Look at this different shot line. It is showing your subconscious mind the amount of deflection/squirt you need the make the shot. It will seem nonlinear at first, especially with different playing conditions and speeds, but it will teach your mind the "feel" it needs to factor into each shot equation using english. This will improve your ability to use cue ball deflection with your favorite technique...TOI.

Best,
Mike

 

[CJ Wiley]

the "backing down the driveway" scenario

do I get 1st copy????.... my position play has increased very significantly since I started looking for the zone. Im putting in a solid 2-3 hrs a day using nothing but TOI...im determined to learn it and "let the game be my teacher"..Thanks CJ..

Yes, I thought our "Zone Lesson" the other day would open your eyes to how position play really works. Most of pool is just knowledge of how the "theme" of the subject works, then we're free to perform in our own personal way.

I've explained the "backing down the driveway" scenario to many students and the "light" went on about detecting zones. Remember, our minds can't relate to stopping a ball on a flat surface, so we have to think about it in a different way.....the Zone Way is the most effective way I've found to do this consistently.

"Low Deflection" shafts are fine, but they still deflect slightly. I'm of the opinion that it's better to TRY to throw the shots and make the deflection process "your best friend," rather than some "evil enemy."

There's two trains of thought when playing rotation games. One is to let the table dictate what shot you hit. That would mean you look at the shot and it tells you what speed, what spin, and what angle (is the best to get on your next shot).

The other way is what I suggest. Develop a shot that enables you to maximize the pocket size. This means you line up to undercut the shot slightly (aim in the pocket, but on the "undercut side") and deflect it to over-cut slightly.

My preference is to deflect the ball slightly with a "Touch" of Inside because I can get a more consistent result by adjusting my speed, rather than my "aim". Then I can start playing a consistent angle as well. This means I'm controlling the angle, the speed, and the spin according to your preference, not because the "table makes me hit a low percentage {spinning} shot."

Sounds backwards, however, think about it, how well could you play if you hit the same speed, {same}place on the cue ball, and {same} angle every time?

If I undercut a shot I hit it firmer and accelerate more next time. If I miss the same shot hitting a "slow spin shot," I don't get the feedback to know what happened, it could be a variety of factors. There's more calculations, so therefore more variables to deal with.

If I make an adjustment that's incorrect it could throw you off temporarily enough to lose a whole match or gambling set. The amount of money involved in matches I've played prohibited this type of guessing. I had to know for sure so I could make a specific adjustment!

When we spin the ball or try to hit center and miss there's a lot more variables and it's difficult to know and adjust for errant shots. This effects our ability to maximize "margin of error"
through the use of "Pocket Zones". To create a pocket zone you must learn to favor one side of the pocket and effectively force it into the center or other side of the pocket.

To see free videos demonstrating these techniques visit my web site at www.cjwiley.com - you will see 29 balls in a row made in one pocket and the 15 ball rotation ghost drill using the Touch of inside system.

Glad it helped you David, let me know your progress and we'll meet up again, I want you play at your best possible level.....just make sure not to "skip class"....... 'The Game is the Teacher'