Transfer of force at impact....

sjharr

sjharr

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Silver Member
Just a couple random inquiries about transfer of force at impact.

Which component of the cue do you all think absorbs/transfers the most force at impact with the cue ball on a normal medium stroke?

Tip, ferrule, shaft, joint, butt?

I would suspect that the use of different materials and their properties may have a profound affect, but for the purpose of this post I just wanted to know the above to begin with.

I did do a quick search and could not find the answer, if it has already been covered I apologize and would appreciate a link if someone digs it up.


Steve H.
 
sjharr said:
Just a couple random inquiries about transfer of force at impact.

Which component of the cue do you all think absorbs/transfers the most force at impact with the cue ball on a normal medium stroke?

Tip, ferrule, shaft, joint, butt?

I would suspect that the use of different materials and their properties may have a profound affect, but for the purpose of this post I just wanted to know the above to begin with.

I did do a quick search and could not find the answer, if it has already been covered I apologize and would appreciate a link if someone digs it up.


Steve H.
Click to expand...
The tip gets squeezed the most, followed by the ferrule, followed by the shaft, etc. The tip is generally considered the most important component in terms of cue efficiency.

Jim
 
Let the assumptions begin.

Jal said:
The tip gets squeezed the most, followed by the ferrule, followed by the shaft, etc. The tip is generally considered the most important component in terms of cue efficiency.

Jim
Click to expand...

Let's say your shaft is 14mm, wood, with a Bloodworth straight pro-taper, the ferrule is Ivory, and your tip is a "Future tip." I don't think the phenolic "Future Tip" will be the first of these items to give!
p.s. Even in this extreme example of component assembly, it will be the shaft, almost every time, that responds to this type of focused force. However, the point of this extreme modeling, is that "the components, DO," play a critically important factor in determining which item is the answer to this type of question;)
 
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sjharr said:
Just a couple random inquiries about transfer of force at impact.

Which component of the cue do you all think absorbs/transfers the most force at impact with the cue ball on a normal medium stroke?

Tip, ferrule, shaft, joint, butt?

I would suspect that the use of different materials and their properties may have a profound affect, but for the purpose of this post I just wanted to know the above to begin with.

I did do a quick search and could not find the answer, if it has already been covered I apologize and would appreciate a link if someone digs it up.


Steve H.
Click to expand...



Steve, I think that any of the above could be the main factor or could reduce power transmitted on impact. The more a cue flex's, the less power it will produce when the tip strikes the cue ball. This is why it is important to shoot with a solid cue with little flexibility, this will allow you to shoot softer to achieve the power needed, which will slow down your stroke and increase accuracy.

The harder you hit the cue ball the more chance you will have of not hitting it exactly where you intended, which can cause the cue ball to miss your target due to unintentional spin.
 
Zbotiman said:
Let's say your shaft is 14mm, wood, with a Bloodworth straight pro-taper, the ferrule is Ivory, and your tip is a "Future tip." I don't think the phenolic "Future Tip" will be the first of these items to give!
p.s. Even in this extreme example of component assembly, it will be the shaft, almost every time, that responds to this type of focused force. However, the point of this extreme modeling, is that "the components, DO," play a critically important factor in determining which item is the answer to this type of question;)
Click to expand...
Not sure what you mean by "give." Sjharr's question, as I took it, was about which component both exerts and is subjected to the greatest force(s). In terms of the compression forces (the algebraic difference between the forward and rearward directed forces), the more forward and less massive the component, the more it is squeezed by the force differential. No?

If by "give," you mean which component compresses the most, well, that could be a different story.

Jim
 
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Can't be answered without knowing the specific parts and construction methods.

With a leather tip, its the tip 95% at least.

The ferule, only if its capped. If uncapped then it approached zero.

Joint, same as the ferule. Sleeved or integral to the line of force?

Then it would fall on wood choice, layup and construction and its 'hardness' relative to the other parts and specifically the tip. Ie phenolic tips vs other, beginning at the shaft ( most flexible) and working back.

IMO. ;)
 
manwon said:
Steve, I think that any of the above could be the main factor or could reduce power transmitted on impact. The more a cue flex's, the less power it will produce when the tip strikes the cue ball. This is why it is important to shoot with a solid cue with little flexibility, this will allow you to shoot softer to achieve the power needed, which will slow down your stroke and increase accuracy.

The harder you hit the cue ball the more chance you will have of not hitting it exactly where you intended, which can cause the cue ball to miss your target due to unintentional spin.
Click to expand...


There you go.
Mosconi said hit it soft ,then softer.
 
RRfireblade said:
Can't be answered without knowing the specific parts and construction methods.
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I beg to differ. Any given component, regardless of the material, pushes harder on the next one ahead of it than the one behind pushes on it. And, any given component is squeezed harder than the one behind it, but less than the one ahead of it.

Jim
 
Jal said:
I beg to differ. Any given component, regardless of the material, pushes harder on the next one ahead of it than the one behind pushes on it. And, any given component is squeezed harder than the one behind it, but less than the one ahead of it.

Jim
Click to expand...

Well that's just wrong in the context of the question asked.
 
It doesnt apply to the question of transfered force during the act of a single strike of a cueball. If we were talking about a static force test, then there might be applicable content.

In this case it would be like holding a pillow to your head and hitting your head against a wall vs holding a brick against your head and hitting the same wall. Obviously the force transferred to head in each case would be different.
 
RRfireblade said:
...In this case it would be like holding a pillow to your head and hitting your head against a wall vs holding a brick against your head and hitting the same wall. Obviously the force transferred to head in each case would be different.
Click to expand...
Well let's all put our heads together and perform the test. So we'll have a chain of heads running in tandem with either a pillow or brick affixed to the lead one, all heading for the wall. (I'd prefer the last position if you will, and you can have first if you insist.)

Upon impact, the wall has to stop the entire assembly, and because of this and other considerations to follow, the force between the wall and either the pillow or brick will be the largest force of all (on average).

Now the pillow or brick was moving just before the collision, but then comes to a halt. That means there must've been a net rearward force acting on the pillow or brick, which, in turn, means the force acting between the pillow or brick and the first head must be somewhat less than the force between the wall and the pillow or brick (on average).

By the same token, since the lead head also comes to a halt, the force acting between it and the next head in line (manwon's?) must be less (on average) than the one acting between it and the pillow or brick.

Applying the same logic down the line, I'm thinking that I'll need less Excedrin than you.

Jim
 
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I don't deny that.

Again, the point is that the amount of force transfered thru each component in the line will vary depending on where in the line components of different materials are place and also how in the line they are placed. Without knowing the order and configuration of line of components its impossible to determine the specific amount of loss at each stage of transfer.

Its not yes or no will there be a transfer, its precisely how much at each stage. At which stage is there loss disproportionate to the other relative to the input.
 
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