Travelling with ivory and a CITIES Certificate

HaroldWilson

HaroldWilson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am based in Australia and wish to travel overseas with my Black Boar. I have read that I will need a CITES Pre-Convention Certificate to travel with it. This covers:
  • Asian elephants to the protected list on 1 July 1975 and
  • African elephants on 26 February 1976.
So if I can proved that the ivory was collected prior to these dates, then happy days.

Has anyone sought certification (eg., evidence of ivory receipts etc) from a cue maker and received a CITES certificate for international travel?

Thanks
 
Leave the Black Bore home, as you will be dealing with customs type cops, who hate making wrong discussion.

They would rather confiscate your Cue, verses make a goof, and let you slide.


Besides unless everything you carry to prove your in compliance is not accepted, say bye bye Black Bore.

DO YOU NEED HEADACHES❓❓❓❓❓
 
I agree with Coco. You might not actually be asking for trouble but you are giving it ample opportunity to rear its ugly head. Leave the Black Boar at home.
 
Obtaining a CITES. Certificate here in the USA is under the USDA (United States Dept. of Agriculture).
It is responsible for enforcing regulations specific to the import and export of plants regulated by CITES
as well as the Endangered Species Act (ESA). It has not issued any instructions on how to obtain a CITES
certificate for items containing ivory. However, U.S. Customs and Border Protection enforce endangered
species, CITES, endangered wildlife and plants. And permits for importing or exporting endangered species
et al is under the U.S Fish and Wildlife Service which is part of the Department of the Interior that approves
policies. As you can see, it’s basically a circular firing squad here in the USA when it comes to CITES & ivory.
Listen to what others have told you, leave the BB cue at home & just substitute a nice Sneaky Pete cue instead.
 
A few years ago they relaxed travel bans with certain items and instruments containing small amounts of Ivory, I don't recall the exact figure. That said, I travel all the time with my instruments and cues and never once have even been asked about it. Couple times a year usually. fwiw
 
To me its gambling. You might win, but you need to be honest with yourself. What is the most I am willing to lose?
Once you have that number then the answer you are seeking becomes clearer.
I just played in a match for 7 hours. I lost $80, against a killer, 3 of 4 sets went hill/hill I am still up a couple hundred over the year so as long as I am ahead I am ok to give it back.

I'm not sure how much your cue is worth but if I lost my cue I would feel gut shot, but I could replace it for $600.
 
Last edited:
RRfireblade said:
A few years ago they relaxed travel bans with certain items and instruments containing small amounts of Ivory, I don't recall the exact figure. That said, I travel all the time with my instruments and cues and never once have even been asked about it. Couple times a year usually. fwiw
Click to expand...
Do your instruments contain ivory or are they just potentially suspect because of the traditional use of ivory/rosewood/whatever? The woods are what concern me. How could I prove when and where the rosewood was harvested, especially as it could potentially take a while to become a guitar? The ivory ban seems more clear-cut.
 
HaroldWilson said:
I am based in Australia and wish to travel overseas with my Black Boar. I have read that I will need a CITES Pre-Convention Certificate to travel with it. This covers:
  • Asian elephants to the protected list on 1 July 1975 and
  • African elephants on 26 February 1976.
So if I can proved that the ivory was collected prior to these dates, then happy days.

Has anyone sought certification (eg., evidence of ivory receipts etc) from a cue maker and received a CITES certificate for international travel?

Thanks
Click to expand...
I’ve done that many times as I have CITES for elephants I’ve hunted. 14 total in my life.

I’ve never been stopped and question, I used the permits to bring cues from Europe that weren’t mine as well.

I can’t say what would happen if questioned, I’m not going to speculate. Can’t help you there.

On a side note the ivory Ernie got in-trouble for was old pre-bad ivory from Botswana. I saw the tusks before he cut them up.

Ivory has to cure for ~20 years after it’s harvested before it’s not “green” meaning easily cracked. There’s no rushing ivory, kiln drying etc doesn’t work with ivory. The older the better.

I’ve been to Zimbabwe many many times and have a friend in the safari biz I’ve known 24 years. I know lots about ivory, conservation, CITES etc.

Best
Fatboy
 
tomatoshooter said:
Do your instruments contain ivory or are they just potentially suspect because of the traditional use of ivory/rosewood/whatever? The woods are what concern me. How could I prove when and where the rosewood was harvested, especially as it could potentially take a while to become a guitar? The ivory ban seems more clear-cut.
Click to expand...

Both woods and ivory. I usually just keep the receipts of purchase available. I think 2016 or 2014 or something like that is old enough. But as I said, dozen of trips, not one question yet.
 
Well why ask for trouble❓ You got Diplomatic Passport. Or friend of Biden Family?

If not you might get Customs Office who say you Cue is now my Governments Property.🤣
 
CA Dept. of Fish & Wildlife told me that the only way to know that the ivory contained in any cue
was not in fact poached ivory (recently killed elephants) is to take actual core samples of the
ivory in the pool cue design. They would actually use dentist like drills to invade the ivory that ruins
the cue with holes. And the agency said they have zero liability for any damages since the actual
age of the ivory (pre-ban 1978) can only be confirmed by lab test. And since a cue can theoretically
have pre-ban and poached ivory in its design, multiple core samples have to be taken to confirm this.
 
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