Treachery in the IPT qualifier....
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pokerhammer
Banned
enzo said:
lol, I know exactly what I'm talking about. I've witnessed several treacherous incidents from pool players. You must be one, condoning this type of behavior.
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Timberly
Guest
EVERY profession has idiots...poker, pool, baseball, football, golf, hockey, corporate, doctors, nurses, truck drivers, (you get the picture).... Pool doesn't stand alone.pokerhammer said:
Exactly, the whole point is this. There is now some real money coming into the sport, and there are players who are going to ruin it as quickly as it got going. IMO pool has no place to go but up, so people should stop acting like this guy is going to ruin pool. Pool is already beyond ruins, we need our game to get pulled out of the grave, and this looks like the best thing to come in a long time.pokerhammer said:
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onepocketchump
Guest
Southpaw said:
No, what he was saying is that it is unfair to generalize all pool players as scumbags.
The problem here is not the players - any players that are going to jack around to bank the eight for a couple thousand aren't really gonna do much on the IPT anyway. The problem is the offer, it detracts and distracts from the game.
To use the baseball analogy; it would be like offering $10,000 to anyone who makes a home run with a pop fly ball. That only causes some players to think about it and some to collude to get it. Just leave stuff like that out of the game and let the game be played purely.
Real Pool - Real Rules - Real Money I am sure Kevin already realized the folly of the offer.
On another note: I know why jump cues are banned from the IPT. Mike Sigel doesn't know how to use them. Yesterday I saw him lose to Tony Ellin in 1993 US Open Semi-Final match. One shot he attempted to jump half a ball using a jump cue and jumped the cueball off the table. This is a shot that is easy for today's players and Mike totally botched it. Maybe if he had ever put in some practice with the jump cue they would be allowed on the IPT today, and Kevin could be giving out $2000 for each jumped ball.
John
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onepocketchump
Guest
pokerhammer said:
Really? Well so have I. And I have also witnessed incredible nobility and honesty from pool players as well. I have witnessed or experienced hundreds of treacherous acts by people, corporations and governments in my lifetime so far. That doesn't make all of them scumbags does it.
Here is a good article that explains the cheating in poker and WHY all cardplayers aren't scumbags. The same logic applies to pool and pool players.
John
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Timberly
Guest
Vagabond, he's a treacherous pool player that is NOT to be trusted. I strongly suggest you not let him do the I.O.U.Rude Dog said:How 'bout an I.O.U.?
They are just
trying to put 'extra options' on a new car to make it more interesting and exciting. They didn't expect someone to test drive the car, rip out the extra option, and abandon the car where it was.
I have never seen a successful 'project' that didn't make a few mistakes along the way.
trying to put 'extra options' on a new car to make it more interesting and exciting. They didn't expect someone to test drive the car, rip out the extra option, and abandon the car where it was.
I have never seen a successful 'project' that didn't make a few mistakes along the way.
I would totally sell out if the cause was worth it. Selling out for Natural Cures and Kevin Trudeau for the IPT, that is some bad press association. When Kobe Bryant(basketball player) was charged with sexual allegations adidas dropped him as a sponsor and all his advertising buzz is worth little. Even though he had a high scoring game almost beating jordan's record for a NBA game the press still didn't give it more than a blurb.
Should the IPT be reviewed and things do not add up hopefully the players do not receive the short end of the stick. It is the players that make the competition worth wanting to attend and the players who make the companies look good.
And for all that money Trudeau all he did was republish stuff you can find in an encyclopedia. At least with the tobacco companies and fast food they provide services to the community. Even though they make money they still give back to the people. Which is something Trudeau has fallen short of.
And if you say Trudeau gives back to the people by providing jobs, that don't count. In New York 75% of new restuarants fail within two quarters of a business year. The ones that don't fail never tried to make tons of money in their first year.
I don't know where I was going with that just wanted to put my two cents on the board.
Should the IPT be reviewed and things do not add up hopefully the players do not receive the short end of the stick. It is the players that make the competition worth wanting to attend and the players who make the companies look good.
And for all that money Trudeau all he did was republish stuff you can find in an encyclopedia. At least with the tobacco companies and fast food they provide services to the community. Even though they make money they still give back to the people. Which is something Trudeau has fallen short of.
And if you say Trudeau gives back to the people by providing jobs, that don't count. In New York 75% of new restuarants fail within two quarters of a business year. The ones that don't fail never tried to make tons of money in their first year.
I don't know where I was going with that just wanted to put my two cents on the board.
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onepocketchump
Guest
justnum said:
What do the fast food and tobacco companies give back that is in any way commensurate with the pain they cause?
No matter how popular Kevin's book becomes or whether the information contained within is truthful or helpful it will still be like throwing a piece of paper in the wind against the massive amounts of money and influence the drug and food industry has and uses.
I have back pain. I used pain pills to suppress it. I finally went to the doctor and was diagnosed with a bulging disk. I was put on more pain medication and given a steroid injection. Next option: surgery. Since then I have changed my shoes to arch supporting Birkenstocks - almost all I wear and most importantly, I changed the chair I sit in all day to one that you kneel on. Now I have almost no back pain and use no pain pills. I will bet that if I were to lose the 20 extra pounds I carry on my gut that I would have zero back pain. Do you think any doctor reccomended this course of treatment? Not one that I saw - three for the record - two general practioners and one specialist. I would chalk my recovery up to "natural" cures rather than industrial medical ones.
Now if I take a pain pill it is for recreational purposes. Which is how they should sell them - just like cigarettes with a little warning label. And pain pills have no second-hand smoke to kill everyone around you.
Illegal drug dealers fuel the pool-action economy, none of the "legal" drug dealers has ever stepped up to put any money in pool. Think of all the great innuendo and double-entendre' that Phizer could get by sponsoring pool with Viagra. So if a salesman of hope decides to pump some money into pool that's fine. At least his message has some truth to it.
John
Good people and bad
In all walks of life, there are scumbags and good honest people. I have played pool with some of the most polite and honest people I have ever met, and played against some of the most unscrupulous idiots ever. I made the comment when I first started to post here a couple of years ago, people who get caught outright cheating, need to be held responsible for their actions. If the guys were high fiving after the banks were made, pay them and forfeit them out of the match. The tour don't need them. The whole idea of a dress code and other stipulations made by KT and the tour directors, is to present the players and gain respectability for the whole deal. Whatever happens at the tournaments as far as dumping or other such nonsense, the players have to be held responsible for their selfishness. Just my opinion. Sam
onepocketchump said:
In all walks of life, there are scumbags and good honest people. I have played pool with some of the most polite and honest people I have ever met, and played against some of the most unscrupulous idiots ever. I made the comment when I first started to post here a couple of years ago, people who get caught outright cheating, need to be held responsible for their actions. If the guys were high fiving after the banks were made, pay them and forfeit them out of the match. The tour don't need them. The whole idea of a dress code and other stipulations made by KT and the tour directors, is to present the players and gain respectability for the whole deal. Whatever happens at the tournaments as far as dumping or other such nonsense, the players have to be held responsible for their selfishness. Just my opinion. Sam
You got a 1st round match between players A and B. They both put up 2 grand to get in, and deep down inside they both know they're a HUGE long shot to end up with a card. They hear about the bonus and A " dude looks like we're playn bank 8". B " I don't know man bankins my weak suit". A "me too but if we split no matter what happens we leave here on the plus".
Sure its unethical, but the IPT walked into this with a great big kick me sign on their ass. They screwed up not the players.
Justin Nuder
Sure its unethical, but the IPT walked into this with a great big kick me sign on their ass. They screwed up not the players.
Justin Nuder
It tells you who did this at http://www.socalpooltalk.com/index.php?showtopic=162
justnum said:
I guess there's no sense in buying the new Blue-Book of Cues ... after all, there isn't any information in there you couldn't find out in other books, on the internet, or with a little research. Geeze- you could just ask here and get an answer pretty quick!
However- I'm sure glad someone took the time to collect and publish it all in one place though... as worthless as that may seem to others...
KT's book is a whopping $14.99.... ... What's that? an Hour of your time? Do you think you could find ALL the info in an hour?
There are plenty of people that have made millions on widgets, gadgets, and other seemingly useless items (remember the pet rock?)...
I say "more power to them"...
Ray
sjm said:
I agree that the players shouldn't have done this deal, it was wrong. However despite my original exceitement I don't think the 8 ball bank bonus is the way to go. Another fantastic field of champions are having to struggle over the IPT scraps and I think KT realises it. I think he meant well and is trying to give something back to the players who are forking out these HUGE expenses and entries. I think he's trying to keep the entries high to limit the field but paying out much of the entries for wins or high finish would probably be a better option. I also like the way the WPC do it, in that they have 5 qualifiers and every player earns points for how far they get, then at the end of the week there are also a couple of spots (tour cards in this case) for the most consistent performers (eg foldes).
Bottom line is the selection process has been a cock up from the start, anyone in their right mind who looks at the IPT list and the qualifier fields will see this. We are two qualifiers away from a situation where the current 8 ball AND 9 ball WPC may not be part of the biggest and best thing to happen to pool in a long time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I can probably see where the IPT went wrong but the sooner they fix it the sooner we will all be able to watch the best players in the world compete.
The book is neither here nor there. I hate to have to make this post but here goes. Switch on late night TV and you will be barraged by everything from Estaban's cheap guitars to how to make money on ebay, get rich quick, buy real estate for no money down and a hundred others. Go in any book store and you will find a zillion books like KT'S. So why isn't anyone going after them? It may be because all they do is sell books and junk, they don't have hundreds if not thousands of complaints of money being defrauded from their credit cards, as well as having their names being sold to other scammers with such information as their age and credit cards they used, that's the difference. Sorry, but these are the facts. I think you need to go back a few days and reread your own words in the thread Scam alert, he sounds like not a person you would pick to defend from your own experience. I know you are the only one reading this since I am on everybody's ignore list so I won't have to worry about being called negative for like the hundredth time by one of KT's puppets.Baker(6x6) said:
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T
Timberly
Guest
Go to another website, read a post that sends you to another website to go through two different tournament brackets to try to find two filipinos players that played each other in the 1st round, just to figure out who the people were.Jerry OC said:
It's ok for JJinFLA to accuse Mike Davis of sharking when Mike was cleaning his shaft (JJ has never met Mike or seen him play & has no idea how soft spoken & nice Mike is). He had no problem coming on here and naming Mike and calling him out for something that he assumed Mike was doing.
Tommy T or D or whatever, had no problem coming on here and telling the world that Danny Harriman was some low life pond scum hustler because Danny won $50 off of his friend.
Southpaw had no problem screaming to the world that John Scmidt was banned from the Viking Tour because he forfeited a match. TBA had no problem coming on here saying that John Schmidt was going to dump even though he admits that he never heard John say that.
Am I the only one that finds it amazing that people have no problem calling out American players and buring them at the stake (even though the above mentioned guys are very nice, trustworthy guys and there's A LOT worse than these guys in the pool world). But yet no one wants to name names when it comes to the two filipinos that did this.
Honestly, I don't care who did it. The IPT all but begged for this to happen. All this aside, I can't believe that the people here are tip toeing around naming the players that were caught doing this. LOL, simply amazing. Is it just because they're filipino or what??
Can anyone explain to me why people here feel it's ok to name names of good people in trying to hurt their reputation but yet when two filipinos get caught, everyone is hush, hush and doesn't want to utter the names of the offenders.
I don't understand why it's ok to name certain players & accuse them of things but it's not ok to name players that were blatantly guilty of doing what they were accused of.
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Why are you bringing race and nationality into this debate? Its the difference between apples and oranges It is rumor only and not fact John left the tournament. that is a fact. You dont have proof that anyone did just that Even if they did so what? What does race have to do with it?
Is Kevin Trudeau giving Mike Sigel, who has been in retirement, all this opportunity to make all kinds of money because they are fellow whites? Do you know how stupid your theory sounds?
The Filipinos have given so much to this sport They have shown some of the greatest dignity and sportsmanship. You only malign them. Shame.
Is Kevin Trudeau giving Mike Sigel, who has been in retirement, all this opportunity to make all kinds of money because they are fellow whites? Do you know how stupid your theory sounds?
The Filipinos have given so much to this sport They have shown some of the greatest dignity and sportsmanship. You only malign them. Shame.