Truth about winning

smoochie said:
P.S I just would like to emphasize something. Here I am not speaking about low-level players where the gab difference in skill is big. I am only speaking about top-end players, the speed of pros or a little lesser than pros by a small margin. I don't want to put letters for grading here because the last time I did we had issues because people scale things differently.

But yea I am speaking about the top players here. --- Obviously, if one guy is a top player playing a very very low-skilled player he would beat him every time.
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I'm a process guy but I used to win as much when I played worse than now by simply willing myself to win. My process sucked but it got the job done.

I've lost that will but I've gotten better at the process. But when my bud and I played the bars for drinking money back then, we willed ourselves to win more than we played well to win, if that makes sense. It was like, "We're down to 2 bucks, don't miss now."


Jeff Livingston
 
freemansperspective.com

The Habit of Excellence - Free-Man's Perspective

All healthy humans are capable of enjoying excellence. More than that, they can enjoy sustained and repeated excellence. And it does feel good to excelā€¦ to know that you worked hard and accomplished something. It proves to us that we can improve, that we can rise, that we are able to achieve...
freemansperspective.com freemansperspective.com

Here's the last paragraph:

...The fact is that you want your children to have friends with high assumptions of life. You may risk finding some who are arrogant (with elitist parents), but that can usually be worked around. What you donā€™t want is your child adopting the belief that excellence is fraudulent or unreachable. And, to be very blunt about it, you donā€™t want your children falling in love with people who carry such beliefs.




About a 5 min read and worth it.


Jeff Livingston
 
My truth.....I hate to say it but the truth is I have never won a tournament sober...my nerves cripple me when I get in the finals my confidence disappears and the only way i have found for me to win is to calm those nerve with alcohol. 3-5 drinks and my game is still sharp that's my sweet spot.
 
dquarasr said:
People have misinterpreted my reactions during competition. When I was into bowling, and more recently with pool, people have told me I am a sore loser and Iā€™m very competitive. They misunderstood me.

I donā€™t care if I win or lose. I DO care if I play poorly. If I perform well and lose, I am happy. If I perform poorly and win, Iā€™m dubious. If I perform poorly and lose, Iā€™m disappointed but not because I lost, but because I performed poorly.

I am seriously taking @Tin Manā€™s recent post re: best v worst performance scatter and trying to adjust my reaction to poor performance as just inevitable reality.
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I understand this sentiment.

The thing i would recommend is consider how you are protraying your feelings.

For example. I have a friend who when he is upset at himself, he will smash balls around, he will say things like "i should had that" or " i never should have lost". And then he thinks everyone should agree with him. All the while his opponent has already won, the match is over and his focus is on how good he should have played instead congratulating his opponent on winning.

He comes across as a bad sport and claims he just angry at himself. But that anger and bad manners affects everyone around him. He thinks he is being reasonable. When he is really being a selfish ass. I have walked out on him. Even though i am winning. It is not enjoyable to be around.

I am not saying you do the same thing. But it might be something you want to consider if others are bringing it up.
 
kanzzo said:
it's like hearing bad beat stories in poker. Your stories prove, that luck is a factor in pool. You are right about this. And this factor is bigger, if skill level of the players is closer, if game is 9 Ball instead of 10 Ball, if races are shorter, if equipment is easier.

But Bustamante knows the role of luck and I guess he knew, he is a favorite gambling with Archer. He saw the way Archer won first set and knew he is favorite to win it back and more if they continue gambling.

Between Auschan, Filler and Shaw luck might be the most deciding factor, who will win the tournament, since they are so close in their skill level. But your weaker pro will have no chance to win a tournament against these three.
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RingKing said:
My truth.....I hate to say it but the truth is I have never won a tournament sober...my nerves cripple me when I get in the finals my confidence disappears and the only way i have found for me to win is to calm those nerve with alcohol. 3-5 drinks and my game is still sharp that's my sweet spot.
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I remember I got a point where everything sort of clicked and I was running out 7+ times a night in practice and getting 2-3 runnouts a night in league.

But my patterns were sloppy, my control was sloppy and all my runnouts involved getting lucky at least once.

I think finding a game and a stroke that is reliable and idiot proot enough to work even when you're under the gun is a rewarding journey by itself.

I cant even count the number of times ive worked for weeks on a beautful fluid fancy stroke with a nice elbow drop, just to get to a finals and barely remember which end of the cue to use. Touch and speed control are gone and Im just trying to make do. Also I dont drink so its very nerve racking
 
There is exactly one shot where the leave depends on rolls, the break. It isn't really true about the break either but we just aren't able to calculate all of the things happening. Someday there will be a robot with enough processing power to calculate where every ball will be after the break. The software is already out there to get exactly the same break every time playing computer pool.

No other shot but the break involves luck! We get the results of our shot, the other player gets the results of theirs. I beat a guy regularly for about three months. We gambled, I always finished ahead on the money. One night he quit playing me. He told me very sincerely, "I am a better player than you are but I just can't outrun your luck!" He was right, but I had worked damned hard for that luck.


Now I'm going to address the truth about winning, the main point of this thread. Winning isn't about the process, it is about the result. Some people have beautiful form and aren't worth a crap at what they are doing. I used to watch an old man, shook like a bird dog crapping peach pits before a race. He would suck down a cigarette in two drags. When the green flag dropped the bullshit stopped and that old man still won far more than his share of races!

When I first started competing I was a bit intimidated by big fields. Then I learned to walk among the competitors before an event. Surprised me to learn that most weren't trying to win! They were in two groups, "I can't beat ... " they would reel off a few names. The other group were the ones just there to execute the process and let the chips fall where they may. I went to an event capped at 120 entries, national entries with a smattering of international entries. "Yikes!" I walked the field and found most weren't expecting to win. It was an outdoor event and others were concerned about the weather, we didn't stop rain or shine and some had never seen anything like the five and a half inches of rain we got during the competition. I was competing against about 20-30 people out of 120. That is a lot more manageable.

Pool tournaments are the same. Take a hard look through the field and see who is there to win. Hate to say it in this thread but you can forget those that are focused on process. Hopefully you were focused on process when you were making your bones alone on a practice table. Now the biggest thing is who has the fire in their belly to win? They will have the intensity of focus to properly plan runs, then turn loose and execute.

Over the years I have met people with all the skills needed to win, yet they never win. I met a man who had competed in over five hundred events in eighteen years and never won one, large or small. A good friend and often road buddy of mine was the same way. Moved up through the divisions, had countless third to fifth place finishes, never won. His big failing was that he didn't think he could win.

You can go and work the process forever. If you aren't trying to win and focused on winning the wins will be rarer than hen's teeth. What is worse, you will be beaten by players with lesser skills but more desire. Unless and until you see yourself as a winner, your chances of winning are slim and none.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
There is exactly one shot where the leave depends on rolls, the break. It isn't really true about the break either but we just aren't able to calculate all of the things happening. Someday there will be a robot with enough processing power to calculate where every ball will be after the break. The software is already out there to get exactly the same break every time playing computer pool.

No other shot but the break involves luck! We get the results of our shot, the other player gets the results of theirs. I beat a guy regularly for about three months. We gambled, I always finished ahead on the money. One night he quit playing me. He told me very sincerely, "I am a better player than you are but I just can't outrun your luck!" He was right, but I had worked damned hard for that luck.


Now I'm going to address the truth about winning, the main point of this thread. Winning isn't about the process, it is about the result. Some people have beautiful form and aren't worth a crap at what they are doing. I used to watch an old man, shook like a bird dog crapping peach pits before a race. He would suck down a cigarette in two drags. When the green flag dropped the bullshit stopped and that old man still won far more than his share of races!

When I first started competing I was a bit intimidated by big fields. Then I learned to walk among the competitors before an event. Surprised me to learn that most weren't trying to win! They were in two groups, "I can't beat ... " they would reel off a few names. The other group were the ones just there to execute the process and let the chips fall where they may. I went to an event capped at 120 entries, national entries with a smattering of international entries. "Yikes!" I walked the field and found most weren't expecting to win. It was an outdoor event and others were concerned about the weather, we didn't stop rain or shine and some had never seen anything like the five and a half inches of rain we got during the competition. I was competing against about 20-30 people out of 120. That is a lot more manageable.

Pool tournaments are the same. Take a hard look through the field and see who is there to win. Hate to say it in this thread but you can forget those that are focused on process. Hopefully you were focused on process when you were making your bones alone on a practice table. Now the biggest thing is who has the fire in their belly to win? They will have the intensity of focus to properly plan runs, then turn loose and execute.

Over the years I have met people with all the skills needed to win, yet they never win. I met a man who had competed in over five hundred events in eighteen years and never won one, large or small. A good friend and often road buddy of mine was the same way. Moved up through the divisions, had countless third to fifth place finishes, never won. His big failing was that he didn't think he could win.

You can go and work the process forever. If you aren't trying to win and focused on winning the wins will be rarer than hen's teeth. What is worse, you will be beaten by players with lesser skills but more desire. Unless and until you see yourself as a winner, your chances of winning are slim and none.

Hu
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You definitely have to see yourself as a winner, or deserving of the win. I suffered from ā€œscared to winā€ dogging it when I first started playing against other people. It didnā€™t last very long.

Now I dog it out of complacency šŸ˜Ž

On a side note, I thought you were talking about an outdoor pool tournament at first. I was trying to picture what the hell was happening where 120 people were playing pool in 5ā€ of rain. šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ˜­
 
JazzyJeff87 said:
You definitely have to see yourself as a winner, or deserving of the win. I suffered from ā€œscared to winā€ dogging it when I first started playing against other people. It didnā€™t last very long.

Now I dog it out of complacency šŸ˜Ž

On a side note, I thought you were talking about an outdoor pool tournament at first. I was trying to picture what the hell was happening where 120 people were playing pool in 5ā€ of rain. šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ˜­
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One of the things about being the third child of my parents, I can't remember a time when I wasn't competing, and losing! I pretty much took in the will to win with my mother's milk.

That particular competition with the rain was a benchrest rifle match. We reloaded after every relay to constantly adjust loads to conditions. Had to clean the rifle after every relay too. Fortunately almost all of them had composite stocks. Trying to keep powder and primers dry was tricky. Then there was the debate, can you hit a raindrop or not? It is surprisingly rare but a man that was in contention for a top ten finish had an errant shot in the in the final match of the final day. That shot ended his bid for a very high finish. He went from top five to top fifty when a bullet strayed over a quarter inch out of a group best I recall. To not go backwards in the standings took a 0.2" group back then, center to center at a hundred yards, about .275 at 200. Now I think the group has to be about 0.175" center to center, pretty much a round hole after five shots to stay in contention at 100!

During hurricane Ida three large oaks fell on my house. One caved in the roof of the patio over my pool table and I had water to the top of the rails when hundreds of gallons of water a minute were pouring on my pool table. I did have a funny thought what it would be like to try to hit balls in standing water. That would be a slow table!(grin)

Hu
 
Maybe is just me, but i can not understand "how" is that of winning. As so, i am one of those who thinks he is one of the worst players at the place, and usualy i am!
For sure i would like to understand how to become a mental winner and replicate it to the play.
Any books or videos recomendation on it?
 
You have to have drive and determination to win. You also have to have the process and time and work put in. It's a bit of a balancing act, and your focus needs to be directed. Crying about the rolls or making excuses will hold you back. Working on bettering your skills and your attitude will move you forward.
 
891014+1 said:
Maybe is just me, but i can not understand "how" is that of winning. As so, i am one of those who thinks he is one of the worst players at the place, and usualy i am!
For sure i would like to understand how to become a mental winner and replicate it to the play.
Any books or videos recomendation on it?
Click to expand...


This is one place you can lift yourself by your bootstraps and you need to. When I first started herding a car around a dirt track I realized it took a lot of ego to think I could beat people that were older, stronger, more experienced, even had more money to put in a car than me! I was a typical less than self-confident teenager.

I started working on ego. Not the ugly outwardly expressed ego but a quiet inner confidence. One thing I learned, never put yourself down! Your unconscious mind is listening and believes every word you say. The worst I say about myself are neutral comments and I try to speak positively. If you are there to win don't make the usual comments like you are just donating.

There are a ton of books out there. A search will turn them up I believe. We talked about them on this forum not long ago.

People sometimes don't understand why I am not more excited by a win. I came to win, I didn't have any major blunders, I did what I came there to do. I am satisfied. Once in awhile I turn in a performance that would win nine times out of ten and somebody else has a great day and wins. It happens.

Reminds me, another mental thing, I see myself as setting the pace. I am never chasing somebody else's performance. One season competing with a pistol my "normal" was one major fubar. Irked me to admit that but the wins when I didn't drop major points on one shot were no more my normal than the times I dropped major points on two shots. Pool is the same way. If you are expecting to perform to match the best you ever played you are doomed to a lot of disappointments. I seek 85% every time I get on the table, 90-95% in a biggish event or when playing for the kind of coin I only played for a few times a year.

I could write a much longer book than this post, others have already wrote a bunch. Remember that to learn about the mental game you can take it from any pursuit of excellence, it doesn't have to be pool and usually won't be.

Good luck! If you want to run with the big dogs you have to get off the porch. You will get scuffed up at first but people rarely learn to be a winner playing third rate competition.

Hu
 
smoochie said:
LOL you know nothing about pool.

And Yes to the question you asked at the beginning of that paragraph. Yes at the highest level of sport performance, luck is the most deciding factor. I know its sad but it is true and probably most people who love this game so much will never see it. The break & layout & rolls & situations that happens in each rack decides the winner. All players at that level can runout they just need everything to go their way. And this is exactly why you see a pro v pro where one beats the other 9 to zero, then they go to the loser bracket play each other again and the guy who was ZERO will win the next game 9 to zero again, it happens a lot and if you have just a slight of logical and critical thinking you'd see that these two pro's did not develop a new set of a skill all of a sudden, its all happened in the same tournament! What made one pro beat the other 9 to zero, then in the same day the other dude beats the other guy 9 to zero? Its all about the layouts, breaks, rolls.

Alot of incidents of this sort happen in pool, to name one Johnny archer beats Bustamante in a gambling match, he ran 13 racks on him and beat him 13 to zero. Guess what happened next? Bustamante said to Johnny lets play again double or nothing, guess who won the next one, Bustamante beat Johnny...apparently first set was cake-easy layouts for johnny and he kept making balls on break AAAAAAAND getting a shot after the break. Apparently, that did NOT happen the next set and he kept getting hooked whenever Bustamante misses. Dude its all about luck but you need probably 50 yrs to realize this fact. I saw it in just a few yrs, it's all clear to me.

You want more? Alex was playing crazy one tournament, even the commentators said he is a COMPUTER and not a man. He won that match, everything laid perfect for him to win it. Next SET he played an unknown and he kept getting out of position due to layout issues (8ball tournament). The unknown beaten alex next set.

One more, Shane Van boening was playing real good last world championships, he ran 7 racks in a row in two SETS. The 3rd sET against a player who isn't a caliber of him but he's still a pro. The other guy got every roll and every layout. The layout is huge in the game of pool if its easy even ur grandson can run out. Then what happens, Shane who ran 7 racks in a row two different sets has lost to a player who isn't as good as him. Its not suddenly SVB lost skill, right? its just the table decided that he has to lose this time.
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very interesting take. makes sense
 
People are try under value if someone finishing First, they babble about experience, learning, social interaction, or fun.

Sad part of life is at sometime in life if youā€™re not competitive your SOL.

You will not get into school your want, MBA program you want, or chosen for your dream job.

Real world is Dog Eat Dog, Kill or be Killed. Welcome to reality.
 
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