Tuck and Roll

SpiderWebComm said:
You left one thing out that can't always be controlled and gets the best of them. NERVES. Which causes puckering asshole syndrome; grip tightening; grip loosening; flinch; yip; deceleration; acceleration; guiding; open clubface; closed clubface;
And that IS SEEN on TV with the best of the best pro players all the time. (I'm sure a few have been left out)
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That’s mental game. Having the fewest variables however, means less to go wrong when I’m shooting the game winning free throw with no time on the clock
 
23DenaliBDE said:
That’s mental game. Having the fewest variables however, means less to go wrong when I’m shooting the game winning free throw with no time on the clock
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All sports have a mental part of the game. Damn, you do it in all sports. What don't you play?
 
SpiderWebComm said:
All sports have a mental part of the game. Damn, you do it in all sports. What don't you play?
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Correct. It doesn’t factor into the argument except to bolster my point. We’re talking physical mechanics affect shots. It does not matter what your nerves are doing if you repeat the same motion. Minimize variables for repeatable results. It’s boring and it won’t get you laid like you’re Griffey pimping a 450 ft homer, but Jr was the only Jr. I know exactly what the 12th strike feels like compared to the first. Wouldn’t have surprised me to pee a little lol. The sudden deafening silence as I started my approach threw me bad enough I actually stopped mid back swing. Reset, heard my enormous teammate threaten the entire room they better find a conversation pretty damn quick, laughed, threw #12. It could not have been more different mentally than 1. It was identical physically
 
SpiderWebComm said:
You left one thing out that can't always be controlled and gets the best of them. NERVES. Which causes puckering asshole syndrome; grip tightening; grip loosening; flinch; yip; deceleration; acceleration; guiding; open clubface; closed clubface;
And that IS SEEN on TV with the best of the best pro players all the time. (I'm sure a few have been left out)

Btw, what I posted about tuck and roll will NOT be the best way for a below average or even average player to get involved with. Also not good for a very rigid player that adheres to A, B, and C every time they have a ball to make. There's more feel in the hands and artistry. But instead of putting as the example, I'd say tuck and roll is more of a dynamic movement that would be used in pitching the ball with different flop shots, spin shots, bladed shots around the green and a variety of lies or in a sand trap. The hands, wrists, fingers, are a lot more active and used which is where "feel" really comes into play. Tuck and roll is feel along with experience from hours of practice and confidence.
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It just occurred to me that if your bridge length is at the right spot where deflection, swerve, and throw cancel out, it could work well for those shots.
 
23DenaliBDE said:
The sudden deafening silence as I started my approach threw me bad enough I actually stopped mid back swing. Reset, heard my enormous teammate threaten the entire room they better find a conversation pretty damn quick,
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I saw a video where they were trying different things to find the most effective way to shark a pool player. Dead silence was the winner.
 
tomatoshooter said:
I saw a video where they were trying different things to find the most effective way to shark a pool player. Dead silence was the winner.
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I completely believe that. It couldn’t have thrown me more. I’d even seen it happen to people but I’m up there not hearing the noise, seeing nothing but one little triangle I know my ball has to roll over. I forgot all about what was likely to happen. It was like a damn switch. Same thing only terrifying last year when the fetal heart rate monitor I’d heard for the last 20 hours at 150 BPM when my wife was induced due to complications went from that fast 2.5 beats per second to nothing but silence. Louder than any sudden sound would have been. Everything worked out, that’s just my long winded agreement.
 
23DenaliBDE said:
I was clear I wouldn’t take me to win over anyone in pool, and I’m not good in golf. In case you wondered I was an exceptionally average athlete in HS too lol.
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Then what does this mean from your earlier post: "It’s how I’ve shot under par while not being a good golfer and it’s how I’ve bowled 299 and 300 games."

Nobody shoots under par in golf through the power of positive thinking, deep breathing, nerves control, prayer, chanting, a mantra, mumbo jumbo, rubbing a lucky stone before each shot, clicking your heels three times before each shot, unless they really know what to do with the swing for every type of shot there is during a round and execute it under the pressure. The top pros out there gag under pressure and hit crappy shots and have high scores. No amateur that really doesn't have the experience or knowledge is going to do it.

I don't bowl but I'm pretty sure nobody can bowl a perfect game without being a long time bowler either.

And last but not least, pool. All same as above. Nothing like having a good chunk of change to make the heart flutter and the
ass to pucker for making the cue go cockeyed coming into the ball and the CB running too far or short while not in line for multiple shots in advance.

Btw, the baby isn't going to give you much practice time for anything. All that having been said, you sound like a fun person to be around.

 
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Ernie Els, a professional golfer for many years with an outstanding record is listed here:
Ernie Els has 76 professional worldwide career victories to his name, including four Major Championships, two world golf championships, and a record seven World Match play titles.

Here's Ernie in the MASTERS tournament at Augusta when the nerves were jumping so horribly that he couldn't control his hands and fingers to even make a putt from under 3 feet. Some were no more than one foot away. He 7 putted!

 
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SpiderWebComm said:
Then what does this mean from your earlier post: "It’s how I’ve shot under par while not being a good golfer and it’s how I’ve bowled 299 and 300 games."

Nobody shoots under par in golf through the power of positive thinking, deep breathing, nerves control, prayer, chanting, a mantra, mumbo jumbo, rubbing a lucky stone before each shot, clicking your heels three times before each shot, unless they really know what to do with the swing for every type of shot there is during a round and execute it under the pressure. The top pros out there gag under pressure and hit crappy shots and have high scores. No amateur that really doesn't have the experience or knowledge is going to do it.

I don't bowl but I'm pretty sure nobody can bowl a perfect game without being a long time bowler either.

And last but not least, pool. All same as above. Nothing like having a good chunk of change to make the heart flutter and the
ass to pucker for making the cue go cockeyed coming into the ball and the CB running too far or short while not in line for multiple shots in advance.

Btw, the baby isn't going to give you much practice time for anything. All that having been said, you sound like a fun person to be around.
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I’m certain I’m not clearly conveying what I’m trying to say, which is usually my fault. My argument, at its most basic is that-

The person using the fewest number of movements required to execute the shot will be more consistent than the same player using the most complicated.

The challenge- pocket the cue ball (only ball on the table) using any type of stroke. There are no fouls. You have 5 seconds

Player A is my father - he calmly lines up this ridiculous shot and calmly strokes straight back and straight forward striking center ball and making it at pocket speed. Why? Because his stroke is the equivalent of Princeton every time they make it to the dance. 5 of the whitest guys on the planet and they’re here to prove that fundamentals take you places. They’ll be running the give and go and executing the most glorious layups you’ve ever seen average white guys make. They are boring, nobody will remember them. They are the extra medium of sports. They have less athletic ability than every team they beat. By ALOT. Yet they still have their moments.

Player B thinks that stories stupid. He stands 10 feet from the table and throws his cue like a harpoon. He doesn’t wait for the result, he throws a Trojan Magnum with his number on it at your girl and yells Who wants some?

I’m putting money on A. B might win. Given enough chances , B definitely will win. Put 1 million dollars on the line. Put loss of life as consequence for losing. Now who do you bet on? Still A. Nerves don’t make B a better choice, they make B even worse odds.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Ernie Els, a professional golfer for many years with an outstanding record is listed here:
Ernie Els has 76 professional worldwide career victories to his name, including four Major Championships, two world golf championships, and a record seven World Match play titles.

Here's Ernie in the MASTERS tournament at Augusta when the nerves were jumping so horribly that he couldn't control his hands and fingers to even make a putt from under 3 feet. Some were no more than one foot away. He 7 putted!
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Correct, he failed to execute. The argument is fewer moving parts beats unnecessary moving parts. Unless you’re argument is unnecessary movement is beneficial, you are not disagreeing with my point
 
23DenaliBDE said:
Correct, he failed to execute. The argument is fewer moving parts beats unnecessary moving parts. Unless you’re argument is unnecessary movement is beneficial, you are not disagreeing with my point
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Yes and no. He failed to execute because something was beyond his control which is called the "YIPS". It's when the nerves are so jumbled and acute that the player has no control in making a normal stroke. The hands and wrists flinch badly pre-contact.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Yes and no. He failed to execute because something was beyond his control which is called the "YIPS". It's when the nerves are so jumbled and acute that the player has no control in making a normal stroke. The hands and wrists flinch badly pre-contact.
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How does that make my point incorrect? Should he have been using a more complex stroke with 50 things that can go wrong or most simple ?
 
23DenaliBDE said:
How does that make my point incorrect? Should he have been using a more complex stroke with 50 things that can go wrong or most simple ?
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How much more simple could he have been doing it than what he was doing? Maybe he could have scraped it in with his foot
but that isn't legal. Remember, he's one of the most successful tour pros in the world. What do you think you know that he doesn't? Have you ever experienced it? I'll answer for you...NO...because you've never been under that kind of pressure or been afflicted with the problem. Hell, anyone that can make a free throw with .000002 seconds left on the clock with 20,000 screaming fans would have no troubles. You should have been a sniper in the military with your nerves.
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
How much more simple could he have been doing it than what he was doing? Maybe he could have scraped it in with his foot
but that isn't legal. Remember, he's one of the most successful tour pros in the world. What do you think you know that he doesn't? Have you ever experienced it? I'll answer for you...NO...because you've never been under that kind of pressure or been afflicted with the problem. Hell, anyone that can make a free throw with .000002 seconds left on the clock with 20,000 screaming fans would have no troubles.
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Is your argument that a more complex stroke is better? I also never said anything I had done in basketball. I did hit a game winning 3 pointer, not a free throw and there was 2 seconds on the clock and about 100 fans since you wondered. I was still the 6th man. Being the hero in that one moment made me no better than shooting an incredible round of golf made me a good golfer. I was an above average bowler who never could finish the season with over a 200 average. Since you’re also worried about my practice time for pool, you can rest easy knowing you’re making a lot of incorrect assumptions about me, the most critical being that I have any responsibilities to worry about every day besides taking care of my son. Beyond that I do what I want, when I want and it’s absolutely glorious. I appreciate your concern
 
23DenaliBDE said:
you can rest easy knowing you’re making a lot of incorrect assumptions about me, the most critical being that I have any responsibilities to worry about every day besides taking care of my son.
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I think we're both better off taking care of our sons. Actually, I don't have a son but I'll pretend like I do and give some attention to my little boy "Casper".

www.sonsofgotham.com

Casper- Our Favorite Friendly Ghost | Casper Shirt | Sons of Gotham

Casper the Friendly Ghost is probably the most famous ghost of all time. At least the most famous animated ghost anyway. Love Casper, you'll love this blog!
www.sonsofgotham.com www.sonsofgotham.com
 
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23DenaliBDE said:
Whether it CAN work after enough practice I don’t think anyone is debating. The simple fact is that tons of things in sports require the highest level of exact consistency. The level of success a person has is generally directly proportional to increasing consistency (call it robot like if you wish). The level of consistency is generally inversely proportional to the amount of variables in the action performed. A few examples- golf putt. When you get to where you can repeat the exact stance and same stroke upon your intended line, the only thing you change for length of putt is length of backswing. The variables I control are reduced essentially to 1. I cannot control course variables. If I, for some reason, wanted to I could always line up center cup, instead of my aim path that is adjusted to the actual path the slope and hills will cause it to roll on. From center cup aim I could control the direction of my putt by how much I roll my wrists through the stroke. This controls the angle of the face of my putter thereby determining direction of ball. This is as exact of a comparison as can be made to the method you describe. The problem with it is it introduces so many variables they cannot be accounted in the golf analogy I’ve arguably introduced the possibility of 44 different angles (assuming I’m covering 22.5 degrees either direction from the ideal 90 degree clubface) that are incorrect. I’ve went from adjusting length of backswing only which is still required in the 2nd method, to adding having to be perfectly timed with how much I’ve rolled my wrist at moment of impact. Can it be done? Sure. Anybody practicing anything long enough with enough dedication will gain muscle memory to become proficient. Go to a golf course and you’ll see some crazy stuff. Occasionally you’ll see crazy stuff on a scratch golfer. It’s the exception for a reason, though, and it’s the same reason you won’t see crazy stuff on tour. I have a million things to learn and improve upon before I would claim to be a proficient pool player. I know without a doubt that eliminating variables is how I get there. It’s how I’ve shot under par while not being a good golfer and it’s how I’ve bowled 299 and 300 games. It’s not that it can’t work it’s that it’s as inefficient as driving through Iowa to go from FL to GA
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LARRY...LARRY...Is that you? I swear, with all of these accomplishments and more, that Fast Larry is coming through from the other side!
 
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