Turning Stone - rip off

[cleary]

Can you respond to this or do you not know the answer?

I don't know the answer. Anything is possible.

 

[cleary]

Cleary doesn't like the rules that Mike Zuglan has put into effect for Turning Stone.

Cleary whines nonstop about his "morals" being superior to most everyone in pool.

Practically everyone in the pool world thinks Mike Zuglan is one of the best tournament directors and promoters around and the event is sold out each and every year, making lots of people happy.....but.......

Cleary accuses Mike Zuglan of doing "shady business".

Cleary has never played in this event, has no interest in playing in this event, YET, he starts a thread suggesting that Turning Stone is "rip off" but when in fact, by the vast majority of the people in the pool world say it is one of the most popular, most well-run and successful tournaments of the decade.

Cleary's morals are beyond reproach, SAID NO ONE EVER, especially after this thread and his whiney rebukes from just about everyone who posts in this thread.

Cleary is simply a hater of the Turning Stone event and Mike Zuglan but has no interest in it, except to run it and Mike Zuglan down. That's disgusting.

So Cleary thinks that it is perfectly okay to make disparaging remarks and suggest that Mike Zuglan is doing "shady business" when everyone knows how everything is handled. That's a fine set of morals you got there Cleary. Lol

JoeyA

 

[Pushout]

I don't know the answer. Anything is possible.

Well, thanks for admitting it, anyway.

 

[cleary]

Cleary,
Not to be a "word-nazi" but Ethics simply put is the way you conduct yourself when nobody is watching. Mike is very up front with his policy. I'm afraid you are on the wrong side of this one. When I go to McDonalds and ask for no ketchup on my burger I don't get a discount....but wait that ketchup can just go on the next burger. Maybe but life isn't like that. In short you are complaining about a good man who by all accounts runs a great event. It's kind of like a super successful restaurant that doesn't take reservations. I may never get to go...but the owner is so busy he doesn't care.

The definition of ethics: "moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity." I think keeping the money and selling the spot again is morally wrong.

The McDonalds thing isn't even close to what's going on.

 

[cleary]

The thing is, though, the Joss Tour is *not* a non-profit entity. I do know firsthand the expenses involved in running a pool tournament, e.g., advertising, phone calls, printed media, bookkeeping for taxes including the 1099s for winnings more than $600, accounts receivable/payable for entry fees, travel expenses to include gas and car wear-and-tear and time driving, hotel, meals, et cetera, et cetera. For a tour, the expenses must be monumental compared to one isolated tournament. In order to run a tour, all of this must be taken into consideration.

I have no problem at all with someone making money. That's why people do things. He's clearly making money or it wouldn't have lasted this long. I would imagine he has several ways of making money, I only have a problem with one of them.

 

[buckets]

What a garbage fire.

 

[cleary]

I think what Joey has to say here seems to be spot on. Sounds like the policy is clear as a bell.

And the policy is ethically wrong. He should change the policy. He wont, but he should.

 

[cleary]

Who did you steak that can't make it?

Ribeye McSirloin. Fargo rating is Prime

 

[mikepage]

I know many people around my speed or worse that play in this event all the time.

98 of the players on this year's list right now have established ratings. 28 of those are above 700. The middle person is 650, and none go below 500. I believe you play below 500 speed. There is nothing wrong with that --- until you pass yourself off as someone sitting it out because of your moral outrage. That's disingenuous.

 

[cleary]

98 of the players on this year's list right now have established ratings. 28 of those are above 700. The middle person is 650, and none go below 500. I believe you play below 500 speed. There is nothing wrong with that --- until you pass yourself off as someone sitting it out because of your moral outrage. That's disingenuous.

Well, your rating on me is off. Which, we've went over before... There are people in that field that I have to spot when we play in a tristate or predator tour event. I'm not naming names because I have a lot of friends playing but trust me, I'm not the worst person in that field.

 

[KissedOut]

kissed,

I'm sure right now Mike Zuglan is shaking in his boots over Cleary's accusations. Notice Andrew never played at TS? Yet he feels he has the right to question MZ's business plan. Wonder how many of the posters who joined Cleary ever played at TS. I have. Many times. One trip will convince you of the benefits of Mike's rigid rules package. Fair to all.

Years ago when Mike used a separate tournament director, I was scheduled to play Busti in North Providence, RI. When the match was called, Busti was no where to be found. Well over an hour later, he came back from dinner. Never said anything to anyone. He just left. Sat and waited for the match because the TD refused to forfeit him. Today, he would be gone. Mike would never allow that to happen. He is as straight arrow as they get. All the more power to him.

Lyn

Classic pool. Doing 4 things right and one thing wrong doesn't make the wrong thing right.

 

[cleary]

Classic pool. Doing 4 things right and one thing wrong doesn't make the wrong thing right.

You can build a thousand bridges, but if you rob one bank, you'll never be known as bridge builder.


*had to alter the saying because it's not really appropriate.

 

[KissedOut]

And the policy is ethically wrong. He should change the policy. He wont, but he should.

That is the point they don't get with their talk of contracts, etc. Clearly what the guy is doing is legal. But something can be legally allowed but be ethically wrong, and something can be ethically right and legally wrong.

So what we have here is a practice that is legally allowable, but ethically questionable.

 

[JoeyA]

Some people thrive on hate.

Johnnyt,
That is a likely scenario.

Cleary isn't involved with this event by his own admission.

It is a morally bankrupt person who attacks & denigrates another man's WELL-LIKED, VERY SUCCESSFUL & APPRECIATED BUSINESS. (It's DISGUSTING)

JoeyA

Probably one of his NY friends paid and can't make it=no refund. Johnnyt

 

[cleary]

Johnnyt,
That is a likely scenario.

Cleary isn't involved with this event by his own admission.

It is a morally bankrupt person who attacks & denigrates another man's WELL-LIKED, VERY SUCCESSFUL & APPRECIATED BUSINESS. (It's DISGUSTING)

JoeyA

lol this is great.

 

[buckets]

And the policy is ethically wrong. He should change the policy. He wont, but he should.

You're just butthurt.

Deal with it, kid.

 

[cleary]

Johnnyt,
That is a likely scenario.

Cleary isn't involved with this event by his own admission.

It is a morally bankrupt person who attacks & denigrates another man's WELL-LIKED, VERY SUCCESSFUL & APPRECIATED BUSINESS. (It's DISGUSTING)

JoeyA

He and his tournaments are seemingly well liked, seemingly successful and seemingly appreciated. That's not the point. He may be a great guy. He has a lot of people who vouch for this character so that says a lot... but that doesn't change the fact that what he does with this policy is wrong. I've yet to hear one good reason why this policy should be in place as it is other than, it's his tournament he can do what he wants. And, that's absolutely true. And, I can criticize the policy.

 

[Z-Nole]

The Snowlfakes are sure in an uproar today. Why can't everyone get a trophy?

 

[cleary]

You're just butthurt.

Deal with it, kid.

How would you recommend I deal with it? Could you give me tips?

 

[Z-Nole]

He and his tournaments are seemingly well liked, seemingly successful and seemingly appreciated. That's not the point. He may be a great guy. He has a lot of people who vouch for this character so that says a lot... but that doesn't change the fact that what he does with this policy is wrong. I've yet to hear one good reason why this policy should be in place as it is other than, it's his tournament he can do what he wants. And, that's absolutely true. And, I can criticize the policy.

Absolutely you can criticize his policy, and should if that is how you feel. But it doesn't make you right.