Twisting the cue during the stroke

K

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a topic I haven't seen discussed much - but as a result of getting one of the QMD monitoring device I have discovered that I twist the cue a LOT during my stroke.

So I am curious about a few thing.

1) is this a common problem you see in students? I'd imagine it is hard but possible to spot it by watching the grip hand closely throughout the stroke.

2) is it the actual rotation of the tip as it hits the ball that is the problem, or is it just that the rotation is evidence of other stroke flaws?

3) what kind of stroke flaws might give rise to twisting the grip? Is it more likely to be a set-up problem? Grip pressure problem? Other?

4) When I discovered I had this problem I came up with a band-aid attempt at a fix by drawing a line with a sharpie on my ferrule so that I could see when I twisted. As I practice I am trying to focus on keeping this line right on top of the ferrule, hence showing that twisting is not occurring. I'm not sure if it was focusing on the line, or being more focused in general, but I definitely noticed an improvement in the strokes. I was getting that crisp energetic English we like in 3C rather than that tired spinning that I get all too often.

Thanks for any insights you can offer as to this whole twisting the cue question or suggestions for other ways I can try to deal with it.
 
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KissedOut said:
This is a topic I haven't seen discussed much - but as a result of getting one of the QMD monitoring device I have discovered that I twist the cue a LOT during my stroke.

So I am curious about a few thing.

1) is this a common problem you see in students? I'd imagine it is hard but possible to spot it by watching the grip hand closely throughout the stroke.

2) is it the actual rotation of the tip as it hits the ball that is the problem, or is it just that the rotation is evidence of other stroke flaws?

3) what kind of stroke flaws might give rise to twisting the grip? Is it more likely to be a set-up problem? Grip pressure problem? Other?

4) When I discovered I had this problem I came up with a band-aid attempt at a fix by drawing a line with a sharpie on my ferrule so that I could see when I twisted. As I practice I am trying to focus on keeping this line right on top of the ferrule, hence showing that twisting is not occurring. I'm not sure if it was focusing on the line, or being more focused in general, but I definitely noticed an improvement in the strokes. I was getting that crisp energetic English we like in 3C rather than that tired spinning that I get all too often.

Thanks for any insights you can offer as to this whole twisting the cue question or suggestions for other ways I can try to deal with it.
Click to expand...
I don't see it as a very common problem. I did have one student who had major rotation and I happened to have a "Laser Shark" device available at the time. It is a laser that mounts on top of the stick and makes a vertical fan-shaped beam that you can shine on a wall as you stroke. It shows the rotation very clearly.

The problem is that the rotation is unnecessary motion and a complication of the stroke. If you do it exactly the same every time, then it's not a problem, but usually the rotation is also a movement of the rear end of the stick to the side.

As for 3, I'm not sure what you're asking. Twisting is a stroke flaw. Twisting is a more or less voluntary action.

As for 4, there's nothing wrong with a line on the ferrule. I used to do it all the time to make sure my shaft was in the same rotation all the time.

I can imagine a training cue with flats on the side and a fixed slot fixture on the table for it to slide through. That couldn't twist.
 
KissedOut said:
This is a topic I haven't seen discussed much - but as a result of getting one of the QMD monitoring device I have discovered that I twist the cue a LOT during my stroke.

So I am curious about a few thing.

1) is this a common problem you see in students? I'd imagine it is hard but possible to spot it by watching the grip hand closely throughout the stroke.

2) is it the actual rotation of the tip as it hits the ball that is the problem, or is it just that the rotation is evidence of other stroke flaws?

3) what kind of stroke flaws might give rise to twisting the grip? Is it more likely to be a set-up problem? Grip pressure problem? Other?

4) When I discovered I had this problem I came up with a band-aid attempt at a fix by drawing a line with a sharpie on my ferrule so that I could see when I twisted. As I practice I am trying to focus on keeping this line right on top of the ferrule, hence showing that twisting is not occurring. I'm not sure if it was focusing on the line, or being more focused in general, but I definitely noticed an improvement in the strokes. I was getting that crisp energetic English we like in 3C rather than that tired spinning that I get all too often.

Thanks for any insights you can offer as to this whole twisting the cue question or suggestions for other ways I can try to deal with it.
Click to expand...
is it the "roll out" reading on your QMD??
 
The twisting motion, in and of itself, isn't a problem, but as was pointed out, could easily result in some side to side motion. Try standing golf tees on either side of the cue (as close as possible) and then stroke through them. Any sideways motion will be obvious if you are knocking over the tees as you shoot.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I don't see it as a very common problem. I did have one student who had major rotation and I happened to have a "Laser Shark" device available at the time. It is a laser that mounts on top of the stick and makes a vertical fan-shaped beam that you can shine on a wall as you stroke. It shows the rotation very clearly.

The problem is that the rotation is unnecessary motion and a complication of the stroke. If you do it exactly the same every time, then it's not a problem, but usually the rotation is also a movement of the rear end of the stick to the side.

As for 3, I'm not sure what you're asking. Twisting is a stroke flaw. Twisting is a more or less voluntary action.

As for 4, there's nothing wrong with a line on the ferrule. I used to do it all the time to make sure my shaft was in the same rotation all the time.

I can imagine a training cue with flats on the side and a fixed slot fixture on the table for it to slide through. That couldn't twist.
Click to expand...

I guess in the literal definition of the word 'voluntary,' (where breathing is considered involuntary) twisting would be considered voluntary, but the trigger is sub-conscious, which makes it difficult to change.
 
Well, you certainly can't change what you don't know about...and you can't change what you can't measure...triggers or not!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

FranCrimi said:
I guess in the literal definition of the word 'voluntary,' (where breathing is considered involuntary) twisting would be considered voluntary, but the trigger is sub-conscious, which makes it difficult to change.
Click to expand...
 
An instructor can help you... or post a video at play here for review... some players twist "into" the shot to score the ball. They start aimed/aligned off line and develop a subconscious twist to try to sink the ball.

You have to commit to a straight stroke first, the ball pocketing second, otherwise you may never learn if it's aim/line of sight or etc.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
An instructor can help you... or post a video at play here for review... some players twist "into" the shot to score the ball. They start aimed/aligned off line and develop a subconscious twist to try to sink the ball.

You have to commit to a straight stroke first, the ball pocketing second, otherwise you may never learn if it's aim/line of sight or etc.
Click to expand...

It seems that my efforts to stop twisting, with the line on the ferrule, also are helping me focus on a straight stroke without "helping" the English. As to ball pocketing being second, that is a little tough for me since I only play 3C, lol. But I get your point.
 
KissedOut said:
It seems that my efforts to stop twisting, with the line on the ferrule, also are helping me focus on a straight stroke without "helping" the English. As to ball pocketing being second, that is a little tough for me since I only play 3C, lol. But I get your point.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that. But in 3C you can keep the stroke straight and then discern whether you hit a target ball too thick or too thin, etc. You have to miss billiards (or object balls in pool) to build a straight stroke first and then work on aim after.
 
As for it being common. a friend of mine and I notice we tend to "screw the cue stick in" to certain shots. In our case it is just a bad habit, a kind of steering motion. Holding the butt looser lessens the effect and frequency. I believe with us it is tension related to certain types of shots. It is a similar reaction to leaning in the direction you want the cue ball to go after contact. It is not a good habit. :-)
 
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skipbales said:
As for it being common. a friend of mine and I notice we tend to "screw the cue stick in" to certain shots. In our case it is just a bad habit, a kind of steering motion. Holding the butt looser lessens the effect and frequency. I believe with us it is tension related to certain types of shots. It is a similar reaction to leaning in the direction you want the cue ball to go after contact. It is not a good habit. :-)
Click to expand...

Exactly. I have long believed that I was doing an undefined "something" to help" the English with my stroke rather. I now think that this "something" was the twisting. As I have focused on avoiding doing that, it seems as if the whole stroke is just better and produces a crisper, more energetic, brand of English - just like we need in 3C.

It is encouraging but I have a long way to go.
 
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