TWO-RAIL KICKS … Everything You Need to Know

dr_dave

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FYI, I just posted a new video demonstrating a very useful system for aiming two-rail kick shot called the midpoint-parallel-shift system. Unlike with many kick shot diamond systems, it works for any CB and OB locations on the table, and it doesn’t matter which rail you hit first. The best thing of all is no diamonds or diamond numbering or calculations are required. Check it out:


Topics covered [with timestamp links] include:
Intro [0:00]
1 - System [1:01]
---- 1a - adjusting for tendency to go long [1:58]
---- 1b - careful parallel shift [2:34]
---- 1c - finding the midpoint carefully [3:01]
---- 1d - aim adjustment amount [3:35]
2 - Effects [4:39]
---- 2a - spin [5:19]
---- 2b - speed [5:41]
---- 2c - OB distance from 2nd cushion [6:00]
---- 2d - steeper angle into 2nd cushion [6:15]
---- 2e - steeper angle into 1st cushion [8:06]
---- 2f - effects summary [8:47]
3 - Examples [9:32]
---- 3a - kick safe [10:23]
---- 3b - pocketing wired combo [12:15]
---- 3c - pocketing a hanger [12:54]
4 - Summary [13:33]
---- 4a - video montage of shots [14:27]

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
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Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
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Can't wait to watch these, this is the method I use and am looking forward to your take on the process.
 

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great stuff Dr. Dave. I had to learn all those adjustments on my own after I first learned the system a few years ago (after watching a Dr. Cue youtube video). Great resource for people unfamiliar with the system to have it there right in front of you.
 

dr_dave

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Great stuff Dr. Dave.
Thanks.

I had to learn all those adjustments on my own after I first learned the system a few years ago (after watching a Dr. Cue youtube video). Great resource for people unfamiliar with the system to have it there right in front of you.
I thought I knew how to make adjustments with this system also, but I learned quite a lot while filming and editing this video. Now my adjustments are much more accurate and complete.

Could you share a link to the Dr. Cue video? I would like to see if he presented anything differently.

Regards,
Dave
 

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks.

I thought I knew how to make adjustments with this system also, but I learned quite a lot while filming and editing this video. Now my adjustments are much more accurate and complete.

Could you share a link to the Dr. Cue video? I would like to see if he presented anything differently.

Regards,
Dave
Here you go...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfZxKzah1dA

Dr. Cue's was a good video, but your video was by far more comprehensive.
 

dr_dave

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Here you go...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfZxKzah1dA

Dr. Cue's was a good video, but your video was by far more comprehensive.
Thanks for posting that. One thing I didn't mention in my video that Dr. Cue did was "the diamond at the corner." This is where the lines through the cushion noses meet. A line through this point can be very different from a line through the "center of the pocket" (between the pocket points), especially at steeper angles into either cushion. I actually had a segment dealing with this in my uncut video, but I decided to edit out less-important detail stuff like this since my original uncut video was far too long.

Regards,
Dave
 

MooseKnuckle

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:-(

dr-dave.jpg
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
Dave - at 1215, you call that angle (approaching parallel to the 1st cushion “really steep,” but on the subsequent shot (flatter than 45 degrees) you also call this angle steep.

The subsequent shot (i think “steeper” than 45 degrees), you also call steep. Can you clarify?
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
FYI, I just posted a new video demonstrating a very useful system for aiming two-rail kick shot called the midpoint-parallel-shift system. Unlike with many kick shot diamond systems, it works for any CB and OB locations on the table, and it doesn’t matter which rail you hit first. The best thing of all is no diamonds or diamond numbering or calculations are required. Check it out:



Topics covered [with timestamp links] include:

Intro [0:00]
1 - System [1:01]
---- 1a - adjusting for tendency to go long [1:58]
---- 1b - careful parallel shift [2:34]
---- 1c - finding the midpoint carefully [3:01]
---- 1d - aim adjustment amount [3:35]
2 - Effects [4:39]
---- 2a - spin [5:19]
---- 2b - speed [5:41]
---- 2c - OB distance from 2nd cushion [6:00]
---- 2d - steeper angle into 2nd cushion [6:15]
---- 2e - steeper angle into 1st cushion [8:06]
---- 2f - effects summary [8:47]
3 - Examples [9:32]
---- 3a - kick safe [10:23]
---- 3b - pocketing wired combo [12:15]
---- 3c - pocketing a hanger [12:54]
4 - Summary [13:33]
---- 4a - video montage of shots [14:27]

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy,
Dave


Dr. Dave information is wonderful, I find I have to watch it 3 - 5 time to full absort the idea, and techniques.

Thank all it take is practice, practice, practice.

Best part of Dr. Dave teaching is on U-Tube & the price is right.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
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Dave - at 1215, you call that angle (approaching parallel to the 1st cushion “really steep,” but on the subsequent shot (flatter than 45 degrees) you also call this angle steep.

The subsequent shot (i think “steeper” than 45 degrees), you also call steep. Can you clarify?
The first shot is coming into the 2nd rail at a steep angle. The second shot is coming into the 1st rail at a steep angle. Both are relative to the benchmark shot with the midpoint line at the 45 degree angle along the corner-side diagonal.

Does that make sense? If not, let me know. It might also help to watch the entire video again. I cover what the steepness means, but I know I have a lot of info packed into the video, so it is easy to miss stuff with only 1 or 2 viewings.

Regards,
Dave
 

dr_dave

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Dr. Dave information is wonderful, I find I have to watch it 3 - 5 time to full absort the idea, and techniques.
I'm glad you liked it. And I'm glad you thought it was worth watching multiple times.

Thank all it take is practice, practice, practice.
This particular system definitely takes a lot of practice. I certainly got a lot better during my long filming session.

Best part of Dr. Dave teaching is on U-Tube & the price is right.
It still baffles me how some people online will still bash it or click on the "thumbs down" on YouTube. I don't think they realize how much time and effort it takes to put something like this together ... or maybe they do. :confused:

Regards,
Dave
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
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Dave, great video.

First off, great system for everyone to know. I play mostly off of feel but use just a few systems (none of which involve diamond counting). This is one of the three. I feel it is one of the best due to it's simplicity and because these two railers are also some of the hardest to feel.

But while I know this system I didn't know it like you do. I think I used it to get close and then made feel adjustments based on the table conditions and speed of my kick. But the downside with that is when you aren't feeling it, you aren't hitting it, if you know what I mean.

I am always trying to make things simple enough for me to remember. My general take is that the 45 degree angle of approach to the first rail is the 'par'. As you get more shallow or steep on the first rail you tend to come short (shallow your spin takes off too much on the second rail, steep it takes off too much on the first rail). So in both cases you'd either use slightly less spin or aim a hair higher on the first rail. Then with speed, either more or less speed than par brings it a hair short as well.

So essentially, anything other than a par 45 degree angle with a par speed will make it come short. With the only other variable being the distance your target is from the second rail (further = longer, closer = shorter, reason being less time for top spin to arc it forward from rebound angle).

Does my summary above look right? If so that is the easiest way for me to remember it. Let me know. I can't wait to practice this but want to make sure I'm picking up what you're laying down.

I can promise you this. I'll think of you every time I shoot this kick, which is multiple times a session, for the rest of my life. Can't thank you enough!
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
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Silver Member
Dave, great video.
Thanks. This one took a lot of time and effort, but it was worth it. I really learned a lot and improved my feel for these shots.

First off, great system for everyone to know. I play mostly off of feel but use just a few systems (none of which involve diamond counting). This is one of the three. I feel it is one of the best due to it's simplicity and because these two railers are also some of the hardest to feel.

But while I know this system I didn't know it like you do. I think I used it to get close and then made feel adjustments based on the table conditions and speed of my kick. But the downside with that is when you aren't feeling it, you aren't hitting it, if you know what I mean.
Agreed. "Feel" can be off and can be lost. I always have more confidence using the system, backed up with an understanding of the effects. I will always remember that, regardless of how my "feel" might change.

I am always trying to make things simple enough for me to remember. My general take is that the 45 degree angle of approach to the first rail is the 'par'. As you get more shallow or steep on the first rail you tend to come short (shallow your spin takes off too much on the second rail, steep it takes off too much on the first rail). So in both cases you'd either use slightly less spin or aim a hair higher on the first rail. Then with speed, either more or less speed than par brings it a hair short as well.

So essentially, anything other than a par 45 degree angle with a par speed will make it come short. With the only other variable being the distance your target is from the second rail (further = longer, closer = shorter, reason being less time for top spin to arc it forward from rebound angle).

Does my summary above look right? If so that is the easiest way for me to remember it. Let me know. I can't wait to practice this but want to make sure I'm picking up what you're laying down.
Here's my short version of the Effects Summary:

general:
- slow or fast speed goes short, so aim farther from pocket
- OB close to cushion goes short, so aim farther from pocket
- OB far from cushion goes long, so aim closer to pocket
45 degree approach:
- benchmark speed and spin give square hit
- less spin goes long, so aim closer to pocket
- more spin goes short, so aim farther from pocket
shallower angle into 1st cushion (steeper angle into 2nd cushion) goes long:
- aim closer to pocket or use less spin
steeper angle into 1st cushion goes short:
- aim farther from pocket or use less spin

I wish it were simpler, but it is not. That's why the "feel" is tough to master.


I can promise you this. I'll think of you every time I shoot this kick, which is multiple times a session, for the rest of my life. Can't thank you enough!
I'm glad to hear it.

Catch you later,
Dave
 
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Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
The first shot is coming into the 2nd rail at a steep angle. The second shot is coming into the 1st rail at a steep angle. Both are relative to the benchmark shot with the midpoint line at the 45 degree angle along the corner-side diagonal.

Does that make sense? If not, let me know. It might also help to watch the entire video again. I cover what the steepness means, but I know I have a lot of info packed into the video, so it is easy to miss stuff with only 1 or 2 viewings.

Regards,
Dave

Okay, that makes sense (steep to the 2nd rail on the first shot and steep to the 1st rail on the second shot). What about the 3rd shot? You said that it is coming into the 2nd rail at a steep angle, but it’s close to 45, maybe more, but not like the first shot.. Is anything more than 45 considered ‘steep‘ by the video?

I need a timestamp on your steep definition, I guess.

Either way, great job as always.
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Excellent video as always. I, like many, have been using this for a while but have had to use feel to figure out how to make adjustments. As much as it hasn't all sunk in yet, it gives me something to work on in regards to the steeper angles, etc.

More importantly, when working with others I won't have to say "This is one of those things you just have to get a feel for"

Thanks for everything. We really do appreciate everything you do.

P.S. I still think you pivoted a bit around the 2:56 mark ;)
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
The first shot is coming into the 2nd rail at a steep angle. The second shot is coming into the 1st rail at a steep angle. Both are relative to the benchmark shot with the midpoint line at the 45 degree angle along the corner-side diagonal.

Does that make sense? If not, let me know. It might also help to watch the entire video again. I cover what the steepness means, but I know I have a lot of info packed into the video, so it is easy to miss stuff with only 1 or 2 viewings.

Regards,
Dave

Okay, that makes sense (steep to the 2nd rail on the first shot and steep to the 1st rail on the second shot). What about the 3rd shot? You said that it is coming into the 2nd rail at a steep angle, but it’s close to 45, maybe more, but not like the first shot.. Is anything more than 45 considered ‘steep‘ by the video?

I need a timestamp on your steep definition, I guess.
steep: greater than 45 degrees

The steeper it is, the more you need to adjust with aim and/or spin.


Either way, great job as always.
Thanks.

Catch you later,
Dave
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Excellent video as always.
Thanks.

I, like many, have been using this for a while but have had to use feel to figure out how to make adjustments. As much as it hasn't all sunk in yet, it gives me something to work on in regards to the steeper angles, etc.

More importantly, when working with others I won't have to say "This is one of those things you just have to get a feel for"
There are many things in pool that require "feel," but there are also many things where a little "understanding" and "knowledge" can go a long way.

Thanks for everything. We really do appreciate everything you do.
You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :grin-square:

P.S. I still think you pivoted a bit around the 2:56 mark ;)
I agree that it looks like I did. I was so focused on getting to the right spot for the camera, I might have cheated a little. If you look at most of my other parallel shifts in the video, they look much better.

Regards,
Dave
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks.

You're welcome ;)

There are many things in pool that require "feel," but there are also many things where a little "understanding" and "knowledge" can go a long way.

Agreed, especially when trying to explain it to others.

You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :grin-square:

:grin-square:

I agree that it looks like I did. I was so focused on getting to the right spot for the camera, I might have cheated a little. If you look at most of my other parallel shifts in the video, they look much better.

On YouTube you mentioned you were probably readjusting because you pivoted prior to that, I honestly think that's what happened. I'm just razzing you. ;)

Regards,
Dave

Thanks again.
 
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