U.S. AMATEUR CHAMPIONSHIP - rule - ear plugs.

[Flex]

"that disturbing little animal" is an Archirrhino otherwise known as a "snouter", one of the 183 species of Rhinogradentia. It also wears ear plugs whenever it damn well pleases.

That freakin' monster is fictitious. Nasty little bugger.

"Rhinogradentia (also known as snouters or Rhinogrades or Nasobames) is a fictitious mammal order documented by the equally fictitious German naturalist Harald St?mpke. The order's most remarkable characteristic was the Nasorium, an organ derived from the ancestral species's nose, which had variously evolved to fulfill every conceivable function.

Both the animals and the scientist were allegedly creations of Gerolf Steiner, a zoology professor at the University of Heidelberg."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinogradentia

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

It's True, So Help Me God

When I encounter someone wearing ear plugs while I'm playing pool or poker with them, I'll point at the table and move my lips (without saying anything). At the poker table, I'll point at the pot/cards on the table and while fondling my stack of chips, I'll also move my lips (as if talking).

My opponents will say, "WHAT?" and I'll do it again. Eventually they will remove their ear plugs and say, "Huh?, What?" and THEN I'll say, "Nevermind".....

Doug
(much like I do here on AZB )

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Nobody on the planet would try such a thing, unless they are an idiot. Anyone paranoid about such a thing, is also an idiot. That's my take on it...

Short, sweet and to the point. My feelings exactly.

 

[ScottW]

Someone has got to show me how mp3 players can ACTUALLY be used for cheating.

It's not hard. Some mp3 players also have radio receivers in them. And cheap, light radio TRANSMITTERS are available. Just agree on an unused freq, and have the spotter sitting somewhere within sight of the table, but not too close to folks that they can hear what the spotter is saying.

 

[OneArmed]

I'll wear the MP3 only to drown out the yells of drunks and the obnoxiously loud music that is blaring in most Minny pool rooms (well, most are pool bars).

If a TD can keep control of the environment and keep the obnoxious music down, then I have no problem not wearing them.

 

[Flex]

i don't think they should be allowed. how do we know you're listening to music? what if you listening to, say, an audio on pool which might help you stay focused? that would be just like coaching no?

it also can provide "background noise" and defuse big situations: let's say it's hill-hill and you have a tough shot on the 9 for a big tourney win - the room goes silent and that "silence" just makes it that much more of a pressure shot right?

Just gimme "Banking with the Beard" constantly playing and I'm out.

 

[JoeyA]

Why Ear Plugs Should Be Allowed:

Personally, I think ear plugs should be allowed since refs and tourney directors never enforce sharking or bad behavior (i.e. Earl - I love the guy, but prime example). Until they act more like the PGA tour in how they enforce rules, players should be allowed to block out anything.

Ear plugs never block 100% of what you can hear anyway. If the sitting player tells the guy/gal at the table to "wait" - the shooter would be able to hear that, even with earplugs. Otherwise, make sharking part of the game.... like NCAA basketball with the little "wavy" things during foul-shots. Each sitting player should have one of those, or one of those yellow foam fingers that the Hulkamaniacs used to use in the 80's. If you're not gonna stop it--- encourage it.

I think you have just nailed the REASON WHY EAR PLUGS SHOULD BE ALLOWED as well as anyone has.

1. Tournament directors are UNABLE TO STOP SHARKING & OTHER DISTRACTIONS.

2. Ear plugs help reduce the effects of sharking & distractions.

3. The number one problem in pool matches today is sharking & distractions.

4. Ear plugs may easily be used by anyone, leaving a fair playing field for all.

5. Ear plugs are a proven, effective deterrent to reducing distractions.
6. Ear plugs are ALREADY ALLOWED IN SOME TOURNAMENTS.
7. Hearing aids can be used to eliminate noises and distractions, why not ear plugs?
8. Ear plugs will reduce the number of confrontations caused by sharking and distractions that have to be made in each and every tournament.
9. Ear plugs will enhance the level of play.
10. Ear plugs can and will make the game more of a pleasure to play.

Thanks for the input, everyone.
JoeyA

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Has there been any confirmed occurrences where this has actually happened? Who would ever cheat in pool using ear pieces for coaching or whatever?

Sandman, this is Viper Command. Duck on the 3-ball. I repeat, duck on the 3-ball!

Viper Command, this is Sandman. I think I can run out. Over.

Sandman, Viper Command. That's a negative. Repeat, negative on the run-out. Play safe.


Someone has got to show me how mp3 players can ACTUALLY be used for cheating. Personally, I think ear plugs should be allowed since refs and tourney directors never enforce sharking or bad behavior (i.e. Earl - I love the guy, but prime example). Until they act more like the PGA tour in how they enforce rules, players should be allowed to block out anything. Ear plugs never block 100% of what you can hear anyway. If the sitting player tells the guy/gal at the table to "wait" - the shooter would be able to hear that, even with earplugs. Otherwise, make sharking part of the game.... like NCAA basketball with the little "wavy" things during foul-shots. Each sitting player should have one of those, or one of those yellow foam fingers that the Hulkamaniacs used to use in the 80's. If you're not gonna stop it--- encourage it.

Well, I highly doubt you'll ever see an occurance on the pro level but I've heard of it happening in amateur events and there have been some big scandals in chess. No, I don't think anyone is going to be able to point to any specific occurance in an event such as the US Open but it is a movement in ALL sports that has picked-up momentum.

The underlying problem with differentiating which electronic devices can be used and which can't is a technological one. You can't tell the difference between an MP3 player and a cellphone anymore. In fact, Apple has torn that wall down with their iPhone.

I understand why you think such thoughts. Any honest person is going to look at rules like these and wonder why they should be penalized. For me, most of my competition is amateur (such is the title of this thread) and I don't want any device that could be used to relay information. I mean, half of my opponents won't even call a foul on themselves. I wouldn't put it past them to try and cheat outright.

 

[the9ballroller]

Alright...riddle me this...Someone like SVB is deaf...what the heck they gonna do about that? Do you think it gives him an unfair advantage perhaps? I am also hard of hearing and will often take out or turn down my hearing aides. Are they going to make me wear my hearing aides or try to make me leave them turned on? HA HA

WTFO?

 

[juggler314]

Well, I highly doubt you'll ever see an occurance on the pro level but I've heard of it happening in amateur events and there have been some big scandals in chess. No, I don't think anyone is going to be able to point to any specific occurance in an event such as the US Open but it is a movement in ALL sports that has picked-up momentum.

The underlying problem with differentiating which electronic devices can be used and which can't is a technological one. You can't tell the difference between an MP3 player and a cellphone anymore. In fact, Apple has torn that wall down with their iPhone.

I understand why you think such thoughts. Any honest person is going to look at rules like these and wonder why they should be penalized. For me, most of my competition is amateur (such is the title of this thread) and I don't want any device that could be used to relay information. I mean, half of my opponents won't even call a foul on themselves. I wouldn't put it past them to try and cheat outright.

Yeah it's the amatuer field where I'd expect such things to happen. Most people don't realize - but the APA has a rule that your team may only speak english during play. Why - because if you are playing a team with say a number of Spanish speakers and no one on your team speaks spanish - you'd never know if they were just chit-chatting or calling out helpful hints.

As a tangent, I only tried to enforce this rule once, because I was almost positive it was being abused in exactly that fashion. The guy got all in my face about being racist or some such...amazing what people will pull out of the bag of insults rather than say...opening the rule book and complying.

 

[juggler314]

Alright...riddle me this...Someone like SVB is deaf...what the heck they gonna do about that? Do you think it gives him an unfair advantage perhaps? I am also hard of hearing and will often take out or turn down my hearing aides. Are they going to make me wear my hearing aides or try to make me leave them turned on? HA HA

WTFO?

Actually I think if you go with Judes interpretation you'd have to take them out!

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Alright...riddle me this...Someone like SVB is deaf...what the heck they gonna do about that? Do you think it gives him an unfair advantage perhaps? I am also hard of hearing and will often take out or turn down my hearing aides. Are they going to make me wear my hearing aides or try to make me leave them turned on? HA HA

WTFO?

Do you think people are so dumb that they cannot figure out how to make sure a deaf person will be allowed to use their hearing devices while banning all others?

 

[juggler314]

Actually I think if you go with Judes interpretation you'd have to take them out!

I suppose you could have them certified

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Actually I think if you go with Judes interpretation you'd have to take them out!

Not at all and in fact, it would be a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act. An organization could simply say that nothing is to be worn in or near a player's ears and nothing should cover a player's ears. The only exception would be for persons that are hearing impaired and they would have to provide documentation.

 

[the9ballroller]

Do you think people are so dumb that they cannot figure out how to make sure a deaf person will be allowed to use their hearing devices while banning all others?

Forgive me, but I am confused by your statement...

Are you saying that if you know a person is deaf and wears hearing aides that they are required to wear them during a tournament?

I can just as easily show up without my hearing aides and read lips and get by pretty well...yet all sounds would be 20-30 dB lower for me than for anyone else.

Just as easily...with bluetooth technology getting better and better, you could have what appears to be hearing aides actually be headphones that link back to an Ipod hidden in your case or on your person.

With pool halls shifting more and more into bars and juke joints, I think it is getting harder to concentrate and play serious pool.

Just playing devils advocate here...nothing personal Jude.

 

[the9ballroller]

Not at all and in fact, it would be a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act. An organization could simply say that nothing is to be worn in or near a player's ears and nothing should cover a player's ears. The only exception would be for persons that are hearing impaired and they would have to provide documentation.

Okay...sorry...now I understand what you are saying.

I agree.

 

[seymore15074]

Provide documentation?! Omg, Jude, are you serious?

First of all, I'm against anything in the ears, too (aside from a hearing aid); but the possiblilty of cheating has nothing to do with it--nothing at all. WHAT DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY CAN DO?! Tell us, please...

This is not a game like chess, in billiards games EXECUTION is what it takes. Here's a list of reasons why this would not happen: 1) Anyone who can execute, knows the shot anyway... 2) Someone talking in your ear could easily be more of a distraction than a help. 3) It would take too much time 4) The person advising cannot see the situation well enough 5) Good luck finding someone to even bother helping you without laughing at you 6) It would be easier to just learn how to play 7) It will be a hoot watching these people lose anyway.........the list goes on and on.

How about middle ground: a tournament rule that says "no coaching." That's it, anyone caught is thrown out. That simple...not let's demand documentation from the poor guy with the bad ears! WTF! That is NOT the right solution to the problem--even if, you are still hung up on the fact that this is a problem at all.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Provide documentation?! Omg, Jude, are you serious?

First of all, I'm against anything in the ears, too (aside from a hearing aid); but the possiblilty of cheating has nothing to do with it--nothing at all. WHAT DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY CAN DO?! Tell us, please...

This is not a game like chess, in billiards games EXECUTION is what it takes. Here's a list of reasons why this would not happen: 1) Anyone who can execute, knows the shot anyway... 2) Someone talking in your ear could easily be more of a distraction than a help. 3) It would take too much time 4) The person advising cannot see the situation well enough 5) Good luck finding someone to even bother helping you without laughing at you 6) It would be easier to just learn how to play 7) It will be a hoot watching these people lose anyway.........the list goes on and on.

How about middle ground: a tournament rule that says "no coaching." That's it, anyone caught is thrown out. That simple...not let's demand documentation from the poor guy with the bad ears! WTF! That is NOT the right solution to the problem--even if, you are still hung up on the fact that this is a problem at all.

Wow, it seems as though every time I try to make a point, it's always distorted into something else. Okay, I will spell it out for everyone.

I don't think anything should be worn in or around the ears with the exception of those that are hearing impaired. No, under most circumstances, I don't think documentation would be necessary. Obviously SVB should not have to produce papers every single time he plays.

However, in the BCA team event which has several thousand players, YES, I would want to think that the player was granted permission to use the device.

 

[JoeyA]

Why Should Ear Plugs Be Outlawed?

Wow, it seems as though every time I try to make a point, it's always distorted into something else. Okay, I will spell it out for everyone.

I don't think anything should be worn in or around the ears with the exception of those that are hearing impaired.

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OK, while I am not going to go the route others have by asking if your position includes, implants/inserts/removables also known as earrings and other objects impaled in the ears but I would ask all of the AZers who think nothing should be worn in the ear except hearing aids:

WHAT IS YOUR REASON FOR NOT WANTING PLAYERS TO WEAR EAR PLUGS? Nothing else, just ear plugs. Why should ear plugs be outlawed?
(this question is not just for Jude but anyone who thinks ear plus should be outlawed.---Again, just ear plugs...
JoeyA

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

------------------------
OK, while I am not going to go the route others have by asking if your position includes, implants/inserts/removables also known as earrings and other objects impaled in the ears but I would ask all of the AZers who think nothing should be worn in the ear except hearing aids:

WHAT IS YOUR REASON FOR NOT WANTING PLAYERS TO WEAR EAR PLUGS? Nothing else, just ear plugs. Why should ear plugs be outlawed?
(this question is not just for Jude but anyone who thinks ear plus should be outlawed.---Again, just ear plugs...
JoeyA

I don't have a problem with ear plugs. What I have a problem with are cellphones and I understand that there are measures that need to be taken in certain situations to guard against their use. That's pretty much it.