Update on the Des Moines pool scene

mikeiniowa said:
yes it went in the trash with my other 8 2nd place masters plaques. I only kept my 4 first place plaques(masters nonhandicapped).

I will make you a deal. We can play some. Even. ..

remember the time you told brian h his opinion didn't matter because he wasn't as good as you? I thought that showed no class but going by that, your opinion is worthless.
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Yes i would love to play you some 8 ball even. Where you can't shit balls in. Pattern rack. Oh and 9 ball break.

Also, what makes you think your opinion is worth something?

PS: I didn't think brian should tell people who play better than him to "learn how to play"
 
Well, after I posted it, I realized that I am only stooping to your level...would never want to be like you in any way! Sorry you don't feel like a champion anymore!!! This should only be about pool, and nothing personal. In the end, you will always be 2nd or worse...deal with it!!

Mike, why is it so hard for you to just accept that we beat you? You are the only person I know who would try to make our title somehow less significant. I have to say that I am very proud of our team, and nothing you can say will take away from that!
 
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First off, before the crap storm started Karla and myself were patting each other on the back for the Win in Masters Scotch Doubles, so once again good job by Karla and myself even if no one acknowledges it...We rocked it.

Next on to the good or bad hit, if the rule says it's a foul it's a foul. End of the day Whitey still wouldn't have gotten a chance to shoot so Team Unknown wins 13-10 instead of 13-9 or whatever the score was. Let's all let that one go to the grave yard because it's nothing more than Athens Vs. Whitey and no matter what the situation Whitey is gonna win the argument because of who he is and the fact that everyone loves the guy.

Lastly I don't think Team Unknown played good, they played great to get where they were. If there's an Elite list Athens is definitely an elite level player, I'd bet with him spotting half that list. Elite list looks pretty dumb to me when you hold it up to the Masters list they need to toss that thing away and move on.

So to compare the two teams you have Team Unknown with 2 Elites, 2 Masters, and an Open player and Team Don't Do Things with 2 Elites, 1 Master, and 2 borderline Open/Master level players. Sounds like a really fair fight, in fact a fight so fair it came down to 12-12 in the final set. Team Unknown just didn't get there and Jason R. faded the Cedar Rapids match and won it for his team in Davenport. I feel like all this arguing is only going to cheapen up the win in the main event for the state. There were not any losers in this thing only a bigger winner and I hope everyone is proud of what they accomplished this weekend.

As for that bet, I almost feel like Team Unknown can make some good pickups, Mikey Henderson comes to mind and definitely quite a few other Masters level players out there to pick up. Pulling cocks out to measure who's is bigger isn't worth a **** so let's not go there. Athens versus Jason R. is not proving a thing in my mind or validating any opinions. There are quite a few guys in this town who can make a ball and stop there rock.

Sometimes we have to all learn to lose the same way we win and vice versa. All the involved parties have been multiple state champions. Great job by both teams and it was a really great match to sit and watch I have to tell you it was honestly a highlight of the weekend for me and it was weird because I play with all of you regularly. Truth be told I wish I was out there playing with Team Unknown but I think they did just fine without me.

Maybe action time, but whatever time it is, I hope we all can settle down a bit and be respectful of one another. Good night!!!
 
mikeyfrost said:
First off, before the crap storm started Karla and myself were patting each other on the back for the Win in Masters Scotch Doubles, so once again good job by Karla and myself even if no one acknowledges it...We rocked it.

Next on to the good or bad hit, if the rule says it's a foul it's a foul. End of the day Whitey still wouldn't have gotten a chance to shoot so Team Unknown wins 13-10 instead of 13-9 or whatever the score was. Let's all let that one go to the grave yard because it's nothing more than Athens Vs. Whitey and no matter what the situation Whitey is gonna win the argument because of who he is and the fact that everyone loves the guy.

Lastly I don't think Team Unknown played good, they played great to get where they were. If there's an Elite list Athens is definitely an elite level player, I'd bet with him spotting half that list. Elite list looks pretty dumb to me when you hold it up to the Masters list they need to toss that thing away and move on.

So to compare the two teams you have Team Unknown with 2 Elites, 2 Masters, and an Open player and Team Don't Do Things with 2 Elites, 1 Master, and 2 borderline Open/Master level players. Sounds like a really fair fight, in fact a fight so fair it came down to 12-12 in the final set. Team Unknown just didn't get there and Jason R. faded the Cedar Rapids match and won it for his team in Davenport. I feel like all this arguing is only going to cheapen up the win in the main event for the state. There were not any losers in this thing only a bigger winner and I hope everyone is proud of what they accomplished this weekend.

As for that bet, I almost feel like Team Unknown can make some good pickups, Mikey Henderson comes to mind and definitely quite a few other Masters level players out there to pick up. Pulling cocks out to measure who's is bigger isn't worth a **** so let's not go there. Athens versus Jason R. is not proving a thing in my mind or validating any opinions. There are quite a few guys in this town who can make a ball and stop there rock.

Sometimes we have to all learn to lose the same way we win and vice versa. All the involved parties have been multiple state champions. Great job by both teams and it was a really great match to sit and watch I have to tell you it was honestly a highlight of the weekend for me and it was weird because I play with all of you regularly. Truth be told I wish I was out there playing with Team Unknown but I think they did just fine without me.

Maybe action time, but whatever time it is, I hope we all can settle down a bit and be respectful of one another. Good night!!!
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I'm not gonna lie, it seems weird that you aren't in the middle of the storm :) You are actually playing peace keeper...so weird man!! lol

Anyway, I haven't gotten the chance to say this yet, but great shootin in the scotch tourney guys!!! Des Moines was truly represented in all categories this weekend. Next year should be another fun team tourney as well...super tough as usual!
 
Wow, this thread turned ugly. No dog in this fight but the Tuesday tournament isn't necessarily a good guideline on B vs A players. I can not play because I am deemed an A player, however I guarantee that in some of the other tournaments Mikey has done, or talked about doing I would be a B player, possibly a B+ at best. I just think that is a gray area using the Tuesday tournament. Should Jon and Justin been masters players? Probably, but until they prove it in singles (not saying they couldn't) in state they won't be put in as masters players. As for the known ability, who makes that call, the Des Moines crew or the tournament official(s) running the show at state? Do we take a poll of the top 100 players here in Des Moines and all vote which level they should enter in State, as well as tournaments around here? I feel we should be congratulating Des Moines for such a good showing in state instead of bashing each others handicaps and throwing insults at each other....kind of takes away from the accomplishments they did. Good job to both teams for playing hard in State along with the other singles and doubles participants.
 
Big Dog said:
I'm not gonna lie, it seems weird that you aren't in the middle of the storm :) You are actually playing peace keeper...so weird man!! lol

Anyway, I haven't gotten the chance to say this yet, but great shootin in the scotch tourney guys!!! Des Moines was truly represented in all categories this weekend. Next year should be another fun team tourney as well...super tough as usual!
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Finally a pat on the back! DSM pretty much robbed that ISPA tournament.
 
Spimp13 said:
Wow, this thread turned ugly. No dog in this fight but the Tuesday tournament isn't necessarily a good guideline on B vs A players. I can not play because I am deemed an A player, however I guarantee that in some of the other tournaments Mikey has done, or talked about doing I would be a B player, possibly a B+ at best. I just think that is a gray area using the Tuesday tournament. Should Jon and Justin been masters players? Probably, but until they prove it in singles (not saying they couldn't) in state they won't be put in as masters players. As for the known ability, who makes that call, the Des Moines crew or the tournament official(s) running the show at state? Do we take a poll of the top 100 players here in Des Moines and all vote which level they should enter in State, as well as tournaments around here? I feel we should be congratulating Des Moines for such a good showing in state instead of bashing each others handicaps and throwing insults at each other....kind of takes away from the accomplishments they did. Good job to both teams for playing hard in State along with the other singles and doubles participants.
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Spimp, you'd have been proud to be up there. DSM had such a good showing. Singles/Doubles/Teams, didn't matter we were everywhere.

I feel bad for Troy/Pet who i consider friends, and even Steve/Jody. They are in the middle of something here that sadly never needed to be brought up. We all had a good tournament and should be proud. I know if our team had gotten second i would have shook hands with those guys and said congrats(and meant it). I talked to Troy/Pet/Jody all day Sat. and told them good shooting and keep it going.

Hell, after we'd won Troys oldest boy came up to me and told me "good shooting" .....how cool is that? (btw Troy, i didn't know he'd gotten 2nd, so you tell him good shooting from me!)

By the way, congrats to everyone who played and made it a great tournament.
 
oh and I didn't shake your hand? Or jasons? Or justins? Or jamies? Could of swore I did.

once again you make it out I am the bad guy. I didn't start this. Go back a page.
I am downplaying your accomplishment? I was accused of cheating and we didn't deserve to be playing for the championship?
 
First off I want to say that I haven't responded to any of this crap because i really didn't want to get in the way of any of this mud slinging in Peyton Place...I mean Des Moines...but there has been some questions that I need to address.

Spimp13 said:
Wow, this thread turned ugly. No dog in this fight but the Tuesday tournament isn't necessarily a good guideline on B vs A players. I can not play because I am deemed an A player, however I guarantee that in some of the other tournaments Mikey has done, or talked about doing I would be a B player, possibly a B+ at best. I just think that is a gray area using the Tuesday tournament. Should Jon and Justin been masters players? Probably, but until they prove it in singles (not saying they couldn't) in state they won't be put in as masters players. As for the known ability, who makes that call, the Des Moines crew or the tournament official(s) running the show at state? Do we take a poll of the top 100 players here in Des Moines and all vote which level they should enter in State, as well as tournaments around here? I feel we should be congratulating Des Moines for such a good showing in state instead of bashing each others handicaps and throwing insults at each other....kind of takes away from the accomplishments they did. Good job to both teams for playing hard in State along with the other singles and doubles participants.
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I would like to shed some light on this process. We (the ISPA) rely on the player first to put themselves where they belong (that's called integrity). Next is the League Operator. That person knows (or should know) all of the players' abilities and about where to put everyone. Last is the ISPA Qualifications Committe. The unfortunate part about the ISPA Qualifications Committee is we do not know every player in the state. We do catch players now and then but we do miss a few as well. As I mentioned, we rely heavily on League Operators to place their players where they belong. If they play favorites or just don't care, then the system breaks down.

I have suggested in the past and I will again at our next League Operators meeting, that each league should create its own Qualifications Committee. Within that group, there should be a couple of people from each of our divisions. I doubt a true Open Level 1 player would allow a true Master to slip by and the vice versa would also be true. With a Committee made up of several individuals from that League, there wouldn't be anymore favoritism or a good old boys club. I think that is a problem we currently have with the League Operator being the sole person to determine where to put his friends (not just in Des Moines, but over the entire organization).

As far as placing someone by known ability verus letting someone move up after they have proven themselves in tournament play...I say balderdash. If you know you can compete and win against Master players, that's where you should start. Don't try to rob some lesser skilled players just because you have never palyed in our tournament before and by default qualify to play in a lower division. Would you like to see Nick Varner come to our tournament and play in Open Level 1 just because he has never played here before? Think about how those lesser skilled players feel about it.

We created the Open Level 2 Division for new players. A division where someone new to league play and new to state level tournament could enter and not get their heads bashed in by some Master palyer. We want them to have a good experience and come back next year. They won't if they don't get to the table.

That what I have to say about that. I hope it helped shed some light on the subject...now you guys can continue to bicker with each other...it's more exciting reading than my post.

L8R...Ken
 
mikeyfrost said:
Finally a pat on the back! DSM pretty much robbed that ISPA tournament.
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We did good, Mikey! It was the highlight of my weekend, since I had such a poor showing in singles.

There are certain qualities needed by each player in scotch doubles to form a good team. Of course, you hope your partner can make a ball and play some position - we had what we needed there. But in my opinion, the most important quality is the ability to take what is left you, ideal or not, and do the best you can with it without getting upset. We did that, too, you more than me maybe. :) We both made some great shots and didn't let any 0-2, 0-3 deficits get to us!

If you don't get moved up because of your finish in the 9ball, I would be happy to play scotch with you again next year!
 
SKUNKBOY said:
First off I want to say that I haven't responded to any of this crap because i really didn't want to get in the way of any of this mud slinging in Peyton Place...I mean Des Moines...but there has been some questions that I need to address.



I would like to shed some light on this process. We (the ISPA) rely on the player first to put themselves where they belong (that's called integrity). Next is the League Operator. That person knows (or should know) all of the players' abilities and about where to put everyone. Last is the ISPA Qualifications Committe. The unfortunate part about the ISPA Qualifications Committee is we do not know every player in the state. We do catch players now and then but we do miss a few as well. As I mentioned, we rely heavily on League Operators to place their players where they belong. If they play favorites or just don't care, then the system breaks down.

I have suggested in the past and I will again at our next League Operators meeting, that each league should create its own Qualifications Committee. Within that group, there should be a couple of people from each of our divisions. I doubt a true Open Level 1 player would allow a true Master to slip by and the vice versa would also be true. With a Committee made up of several individuals from that League, there wouldn't be anymore favoritism or a good old boys club. I think that is a problem we currently have with the League Operator being the sole person to determine where to put his friends (not just in Des Moines, but over the entire organization).

As far as placing someone by known ability verus letting someone move up after they have proven themselves in tournament play...I say balderdash. If you know you can compete and win against Master players, that's where you should start. Don't try to rob some lesser skilled players just because you have never palyed in our tournament before and by default qualify to play in a lower division. Would you like to see Nick Varner come to our tournament and play in Open Level 1 just because he has never played here before? Think about how those lesser skilled players feel about it.

We created the Open Level 2 Division for new players. A division where someone new to league play and new to state level tournament could enter and not get their heads bashed in by some Master palyer. We want them to have a good experience and come back next year. They won't if they don't get to the table.

That what I have to say about that. I hope it helped shed some light on the subject...now you guys can continue to bicker with each other...it's more exciting reading than my post.

L8R...Ken
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Ken, I wanted to say thank you for all the time and hard work you put in. We all appreciate what you do, even if us pool players dont say it very often.

Cheers everyone...........
 
lady9ball said:
We did good, Mikey! It was the highlight of my weekend, since I had such a poor showing in singles.

There are certain qualities needed by each player in scotch doubles to form a good team. Of course, you hope your partner can make a ball and play some position - we had what we needed there. But in my opinion, the most important quality is the ability to take what is left you, ideal or not, and do the best you can with it without getting upset. We did that, too, you more than me maybe. :) We both made some great shots and didn't let any 0-2, 0-3 deficits get to us!

If you don't get moved up because of your finish in the 9ball, I would be happy to play scotch with you again next year!
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I think I'll still be Open next year so we will have to defend. Ken has it in the plans to get more added money and trophies and make it the event it should be so we have that to look forward too. We did come back from those deficits and definitely ran out like tap water when we needed too. And we managed to win the beer drinking contest haha!
 
SKUNKBOY said:
As far as placing someone by known ability verus letting someone move up after they have proven themselves in tournament play...I say balderdash. If you know you can compete and win against Master players, that's where you should start. Don't try to rob some lesser skilled players just because you have never palyed in our tournament before and by default qualify to play in a lower division. Would you like to see Nick Varner come to our tournament and play in Open Level 1 just because he has never played here before? Think about how those lesser skilled players feel about it.

L8R...Ken
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Ken, I have to disagree with this. One of the good things that I love about pool is the constant desire to not only improve my game, but to prove myself not only to my friends, but a lot more importantly to myself that I can play at this level, or can beat that person...just the competitive spirit I guess. Just because others think I or any person has a ability to beat this person or that person, or compete and win at the masters level, doesn't mean it will happen. The open division is a short race which somewhat neutralizes the field a bit. The better player should still win, but this does not always happen, and by no means are they robbing the lesser skilled players. Why should I play in the masters when I have never finished higher then like 45th or something in the open? Why do I want to play in the masters division where I may win 1 match maybe...as opposed to having a legit shot at reaching the money, and placing well in the open? Since I won my one match and then went 2 and out after that does that mean I competed very well at that level?? Maybe...but unless I literally run through everyone in the open which is unlikely, I would have to respectively disagree with your argument here. ANYBODY can win a short race to 2, perhaps even 3.
 
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Spimp13 said:
Wow, this thread turned ugly. No dog in this fight but the Tuesday tournament isn't necessarily a good guideline on B vs A players. I can not play because I am deemed an A player, however I guarantee that in some of the other tournaments Mikey has done, or talked about doing I would be a B player, possibly a B+ at best. I just think that is a gray area using the Tuesday tournament. Should Jon and Justin been masters players? Probably, but until they prove it in singles (not saying they couldn't) in state they won't be put in as masters players. As for the known ability, who makes that call, the Des Moines crew or the tournament official(s) running the show at state? Do we take a poll of the top 100 players here in Des Moines and all vote which level they should enter in State, as well as tournaments around here? I feel we should be congratulating Des Moines for such a good showing in state instead of bashing each others handicaps and throwing insults at each other....kind of takes away from the accomplishments they did. Good job to both teams for playing hard in State along with the other singles and doubles participants.
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I heard a rumor from a pretty reliable source that they will start using the Master Team classification again. Meaning there will be a list of players who have placed high on a team, who will be considered masters when it comes to putting their team together. They don't necessarily have to be classified as a master in singles, though.

Touchy stuff, and it comes up every year. I wish I knew the answer, but in my opinion a national ranking system (USAPL style? FARGO?) would sure help a lot.
 
Hey everyone~ I know in the past there was some talk about moving either of the state tournaments to Des Moines... That being said are there any locations you can think of besides the Fairgrounds that would be large enough and affordable for the associations? (and have hotels) It would be great to host sometime in our own city (nothing wrong with where they are- trying to remain pc) Just something to ponder...

Great Job Mike & Karla, I heard you both played awesome!!

Also~ our very own Worm and Mel had wonderful finishes as well, with a 2nd and 3rd... from what I read on facebook. SWEET !!!
 
Ken, i want to use Jon as an example for a min.

He played both level 1 tournaments. Didn't cash in the 9 ball and got 9-12th in the 8 ball. Do you feel he did something wrong ? Do you think he was stealing ?

You could poll the entire ISPA with a simple questionare asking should you be allowed to play in the level 1 if you're new or you've never cashed before or should you have to start out in the masters. And see what kind of replies you get.

Personally i hope they all say new players to the ISPA should have to start out in the masters. Then 2 things happen, either masters gets huge and the money is even better than it is now. OR attendence goes down and you all realize the mistake you made by not letting people EARN their ranking.

I hope something else that gets voted on is letting MASTERS teams play as masters team, and not this watered down version with the elite rule. There were 11 teams, honestly you guys can't be worried about less teams signing up. Can you ?

Maybe im wrong, its happened before.

THE ISPA IS STILL THE BEST IOWA STATE TOURNAMENT !


BTW: I am in a great mood today, still flying high from the weekend :)
 
Jenni Athens said:
Hey everyone~ I know in the past there was some talk about moving either of the state tournaments to Des Moines... That being said are there any locations you can think of besides the Fairgrounds that would be large enough and affordable for the associations? (and have hotels) It would be great to host sometime in our own city (nothing wrong with where they are- trying to remain pc) Just something to ponder...

Great Job Mike & Karla, I heard you both played awesome!!

Also~ our very own Worm and Mel had wonderful finishes as well, with a 2nd and 3rd... from what I read on facebook. SWEET !!!
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Muchas Gracias Jenni.

Des Moines is middle of the state. Since I have been here I realized we are 2-3 hours from everything. You got Omaha and other western Iowa players driving 4-5 hours to play at ISPA. I don't remember seeing any Sioux City players at ISPA. Do we have ISPA in Davenport just because the quad cities guys will come play that way? I know the casinos add some money too so that probably drives that decision to play in Davenport. I just know living in the middle of the state and being in the capital it would be nice to have the championship in town. I also think the centralized location would make it possible for EVERYONE to come play and improve the numbers for the tourney!
 
Jenni Athens said:
Hey everyone~ I know in the past there was some talk about moving either of the state tournaments to Des Moines... That being said are there any locations you can think of besides the Fairgrounds that would be large enough and affordable for the associations? (and have hotels) It would be great to host sometime in our own city (nothing wrong with where they are- trying to remain pc) Just something to ponder...

Great Job Mike & Karla, I heard you both played awesome!!

Also~ our very own Worm and Mel had wonderful finishes as well, with a 2nd and 3rd... from what I read on facebook. SWEET !!!
Click to expand...

Very good question. I know at one time the city of des moines was going to add money and donate the use of i believe the Hy-vee hall for the tournament. Don't know what ever happened with that.
 
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