Update on the Des Moines pool scene

I would like to use this forum to publicly thank all those who played in and promoted our 8 ball tournament this past weekend at Big Dog Billiards. Thank you to Chris Jeffers from pool4u.com and his helpers for professionally setting up and running the live streaming over the internet. Thank you to Jody McLaughlin and Rob Bish for running the tournament, drawing the brackets and participating on the competition committee. Thank you to Mke Farley, aka. Frost for successfully running the calcutta. He kept everyone interested and entertained.
We would like to run more of these events in the future and understand that some changes will need to be made. Handicapping for example, will need to made less subjective. Maybe handicaps that are next to each other play to the same number ie, AA and Pro. We will need a 128 player bracket if we have more than 64 players. That way two people who meet on the winners side won't have to play each other on the losers side until much later in the tournament. I would also like to see a larger gap in the pay outs to the first through 6th places. That way chopping near the end of a tournament won't seem like such a natural thing to do. If the money gaps were larger there would be more incentive to play it out to the end for a true champion.
I would encourage anyone who has suggestions on how to better this or other events at Big Dog's to come and meet with me there in person. I'm there Thursday night through Monday morning every other week. A forum like this can be a great place for exchanging ideas that can make tournaments run better and get higher participation. It can also be a place for petty name calling and snide comments.
My phone practically blew up yesterday from customers calling me about what was being written in this forum about me, my business, my employees and others. What I read were some mean spirited comments including opinions, partial truths and outright lies. Some of these by people who weren't even at Big Dog's all weekend. For example, it was written that I (someone at Big Dog's) had the nerve to ask Kampas to borrow a tap from a local repair man to make threads for Daniels cue. Not true. First of all, I cut that type of thread with live tooling, not a tap. Secondly, Daniel has a different cue repair guy that works on that cue.
When writing in a forum, it seems real easy to get caught up in the negative, nasty name calling type of talk. Remember in school when the junior high girls were always whispering and writing notes about each other?

Congratulations on a great tournament to Jimmy, Daniel and Justin.

Thanks for the shout out Randy. Psycho_Mycho(Mike Henderson) has some good ideas for the next tournament that I think have at least a little merit. I know the guy who loaned the tap and he's no liar. You guys both could be telling the truth in this instance, no need for contraversy over it though as both of you are very capable repairing cues.

It is a bit easy to get caught up with negativity but sometimes the best improvements come from criticism. I know in a perfect world you would be happier if it was a bit more constructive versus condescending, but you can pick and choose which parts have merit and which ones you feel don't.

I still feel some people are overly sensitive about this forum and they do have the option to participate in it. You now have an account so when you see something or hear something you can dig in and get details. If not, it will be the same situation as before. There's not a lot going on besides tourney talk and that will continue for a little while I am sure.

After a few conversations with some of our more respectful posters, I agree that closing the thread due to Jon's (Big dog ) posts is unfair to the many people who have contributed in a constructive manner.

Jon ( Big dog ) is now forbidden from participating in this thread as a stipulation to re-opening it for other people to enjoy.


Have a nice day guys.

I was a part of these conversations. I also spoke to Jon on the phone about it. Situation resolved amicably in my eyes. Way better than him getting banned from the entire site IMO.

We're going forward in all directions again.
 
Thanks to Randy and Big Dogs for all the past events and for working at holding more events... I have enjoyed every one that I could attend. I wish it could be more.

Thanks for re-opening the thread. For a second there I couldn't breathe....

Here's to hoping the best of our past is the worst of our future. :grin:

Looking at watch "I've need to go, I have a thing...." (Caddyshack reference)
 
A message to all the anonymous posters who randomly come in and stir the pot up, in the future why not just say who you are and then go from there. I feel like the same people choose to hide behind a screen name and get folks fired up. SlipStream, BeenThere, Compact13, Justabanger 2 etc...it definitely only fuels the fire. I imagine some of you are the same people calling the owners or others about the forums. In my opinion if you can spread negativity you should own the fact that you are doing that. That's all I am saying.
 
A message to all the anonymous posters who randomly come in and stir the pot up, in the future why not just say who you are and then go from there. I feel like the same people choose to hide behind a screen name and get folks fired up. SlipStream, BeenThere, Compact13, Justabanger 2 etc...it definitely only fuels the fire. I imagine some of you are the same people calling the owners or others about the forums. In my opinion if you can spread negativity you should own the fact that you are doing that. That's all I am saying.

Tap, Tap, Tap
 
A message to all the anonymous posters who randomly come in and stir the pot up, in the future why not just say who you are and then go from there. I feel like the same people choose to hide behind a screen name and get folks fired up. SlipStream, BeenThere, Compact13, Justabanger 2 etc...it definitely only fuels the fire. I imagine some of you are the same people calling the owners or others about the forums. In my opinion if you can spread negativity you should own the fact that you are doing that. That's all I am saying.

+1

Thanks to Mr. Wilson for reopening the thread.

We should look at examining how to improve the tournament for the next one to make 73 turn to 100+ which involve the handicapping, payouts, tournament bracket, etc. Let's move forward, not backward.
 
Here’s my CONSTRUCTIVE critique of the tournament and my ideas for improving.

1) Absolutely have to bring a 128 man bracket to a tourney that is advertising 128 max field. That’s essential to the integrity of an event IMO. A good player who often watches the brackets closely knows which matches are more critical than others to win. In this tourney the final 4 of the winners bracket finished in the top 4 of the tourney which is a positive thing, however we will never know what would have happened if the brackets were drawn correctly.

2) Handicap changes need to be evaluated by a true committee. There needs to be 5 or 6 guys with integrity that should agree on moving someone up. Jody asked me to watch several people play and everyone he asked me to watch didn’t get moved up. If SVB misses a ball a rack he can get beat by a B player. To me a B player usually ends an inning on a miss, an A player normally ends an inning on 70% safety and about 30% missed ball. A AA player mostly ends an inning where they don’t get out on a safety. A pro level player to me is someone competing in Pro events, kind of like Jamie Baraks getting 5th at the DCC, yeah he’s a pro. Josh Johnson and Don McCaughey are AA players, they may have an edge on a couple other AA players but it’s not much and they both would be big underdogs against Jess Bowman and any other legitimate pro level player. Also moving players up can not happen during a match under any circumstance. It looks really bad when a guy that started a match as a B loses a match 7-5 to the owner of the pool hall because his handicap got changed mid match. Regardless of whether it is correct or not it looks horrible on the integrity of the tourney from a visitor stand point.

3) We have to get a streaming set up local to us to be able to show the tourney in its entirety. It is not an easy job to sit and commentate and be active with the internet audience. Also when having a stream it’s a good idea to use the advertisement opportunity available. The streamers were not given anything to pump up about Big Dogs and that was a missed opportunity in my opinion. Have to always be marketing the pool room if you want people to come out and play.

4) Added money for an 8-Ball tourney was about right, I don’t think you would get many more players for an 8-Ball tourney if you add $2500. I think the entry fee was a little light though, $35 to play in an “event” makes it feel like an extended local tourney. If we want these events to feel regional size then the entry fees need to be in line with that, think about how people have no problems paying $50/event to play out of town where they incur expenses they don’t at home. I think $60 entry is inline with this type of event. Also have to consider, if people pay $35 to enter than they don’t want to spend much more than that in the Calcutta especially for themselves. We got about $2915 in the Calcutta this time and that probably could have been higher if people had more at stake to enter the event.

5) Payouts, although I don’t like really top heavy payouts, it really made a lot of sense for the top 3 to chop at the end. You could lose significantly more than you won late in the tourney. Payouts were too close and that made it a no brainer to crown no champion at the end of this thing. I almost like guaranteeing 1st place at a minimum of a $1000 and work from there. Give guys more incentive to play their hardest.

6) We need timed out matches also for this event. There were too many situations where people became restless and were complaining because they were waiting for tables to open up. Give the guys a time they will play next time and see if that works out a little better. It may or may not but its worth a shot.

7) Mini tournaments always keep people around at the end of a night. If you get a mini started about midnight with the 8 best players in the room, you will see the sweators sitting around drinking a beverage relaxing while watching their favorite players battle it out. No one wanted to play because Jamie Baraks was playing. I did get Mike Lacy, David Jordan, Taylor Anderson, Somphet, Randy, and Pedro to sign up for a $100 entry fee. Could not get an 8th player and after an hour of trying I refunded the money and gave up. In Olathe the entry fee is $300 and people are usually dying to play and everyone stays and sweats it because it’s a best of the best type challenge in a challenging ten ball game. It’s a good way to keep people spending money in the place and giving the top players a chance to stretch out and strut their stuff.

8) Tournaments have a stigma about them and there are 3 words that will help solve problems…TRANSPARENCY TRANSPARENCY TRANSPARENCY. In other words lets face it you have the bean counters there, SHOW the money and how the payouts were determined. People will always complain about their draw, do the draw somewhere where people can see it and have confidence there is no business involved. Any handicap changes and current handicaps should be shown somewhere. People want to know who’s handicap is what and what is the basis for people getting moved up. Basically anything that has to do with the tourney should be treated as public information that is shown for all to see, this boosts the integrity of the event and people do appreciate that.

That's about all I can think of at the moment, plus I am working after being in Illinois the last two days.
 
A message to all the anonymous posters who randomly come in and stir the pot up, in the future why not just say who you are and then go from there. I feel like the same people choose to hide behind a screen name and get folks fired up. SlipStream, BeenThere, Compact13, Justabanger 2 etc...it definitely only fuels the fire. I imagine some of you are the same people calling the owners or others about the forums. In my opinion if you can spread negativity you should own the fact that you are doing that. That's all I am saying.

I think it's funny. If you post your opinion on here and someone disagrees. The first thing they want to know is WHO ARE YOU !! What does matter? This site is set up so anyone can post what they think. As long as you go by there rules. As far as calling the owners if Jon didn't want it to get to them he shouldn't have spread his negativity on this site. That's all I am saying.
 
I think it's funny. If you post your opinion on here and someone disagrees. The first thing they want to know is WHO ARE YOU !! What does matter? This site is set up so anyone can post what they think. As long as you go by there rules. As far as calling the owners if Jon didn't want it to get to them he shouldn't have spread his negativity on this site. That's all I am saying.

I think its just because we're man enough to post without hiding behind a false name. Obviously you know us all pretty well. And i am pretty sure i know who you are, and i think you should know i would call you out for doing this. If im wrong so be it, if i am right ill see you at the pool hall some afternoon soon.
 
Here’s my CONSTRUCTIVE critique of the tournament and my ideas for improving.

1) Absolutely have to bring a 128 man bracket to a tourney that is advertising 128 max field. That’s essential to the integrity of an event IMO. A good player who often watches the brackets closely knows which matches are more critical than others to win. In this tourney the final 4 of the winners bracket finished in the top 4 of the tourney which is a positive thing, however we will never know what would have happened if the brackets were drawn correctly.

2) Handicap changes need to be evaluated by a true committee. There needs to be 5 or 6 guys with integrity that should agree on moving someone up. Jody asked me to watch several people play and everyone he asked me to watch didn’t get moved up. If SVB misses a ball a rack he can get beat by a B player. To me a B player usually ends an inning on a miss, an A player normally ends an inning on 70% safety and about 30% missed ball. A AA player mostly ends an inning where they don’t get out on a safety. A pro level player to me is someone competing in Pro events, kind of like Jamie Baraks getting 5th at the DCC, yeah he’s a pro. Josh Johnson and Don McCaughey are AA players, they may have an edge on a couple other AA players but it’s not much and they both would be big underdogs against Jess Bowman and any other legitimate pro level player. Also moving players up can not happen during a match under any circumstance. It looks really bad when a guy that started a match as a B loses a match 7-5 to the owner of the pool hall because his handicap got changed mid match. Regardless of whether it is correct or not it looks horrible on the integrity of the tourney from a visitor stand point.

3) We have to get a streaming set up local to us to be able to show the tourney in its entirety. It is not an easy job to sit and commentate and be active with the internet audience. Also when having a stream it’s a good idea to use the advertisement opportunity available. The streamers were not given anything to pump up about Big Dogs and that was a missed opportunity in my opinion. Have to always be marketing the pool room if you want people to come out and play.

4) Added money for an 8-Ball tourney was about right, I don’t think you would get many more players for an 8-Ball tourney if you add $2500. I think the entry fee was a little light though, $35 to play in an “event” makes it feel like an extended local tourney. If we want these events to feel regional size then the entry fees need to be in line with that, think about how people have no problems paying $50/event to play out of town where they incur expenses they don’t at home. I think $60 entry is inline with this type of event. Also have to consider, if people pay $35 to enter than they don’t want to spend much more than that in the Calcutta especially for themselves. We got about $2915 in the Calcutta this time and that probably could have been higher if people had more at stake to enter the event.

5) Payouts, although I don’t like really top heavy payouts, it really made a lot of sense for the top 3 to chop at the end. You could lose significantly more than you won late in the tourney. Payouts were too close and that made it a no brainer to crown no champion at the end of this thing. I almost like guaranteeing 1st place at a minimum of a $1000 and work from there. Give guys more incentive to play their hardest.

6) We need timed out matches also for this event. There were too many situations where people became restless and were complaining because they were waiting for tables to open up. Give the guys a time they will play next time and see if that works out a little better. It may or may not but its worth a shot.

7) Mini tournaments always keep people around at the end of a night. If you get a mini started about midnight with the 8 best players in the room, you will see the sweators sitting around drinking a beverage relaxing while watching their favorite players battle it out. No one wanted to play because Jamie Baraks was playing. I did get Mike Lacy, David Jordan, Taylor Anderson, Somphet, Randy, and Pedro to sign up for a $100 entry fee. Could not get an 8th player and after an hour of trying I refunded the money and gave up. In Olathe the entry fee is $300 and people are usually dying to play and everyone stays and sweats it because it’s a best of the best type challenge in a challenging ten ball game. It’s a good way to keep people spending money in the place and giving the top players a chance to stretch out and strut their stuff.

8) Tournaments have a stigma about them and there are 3 words that will help solve problems…TRANSPARENCY TRANSPARENCY TRANSPARENCY. In other words lets face it you have the bean counters there, SHOW the money and how the payouts were determined. People will always complain about their draw, do the draw somewhere where people can see it and have confidence there is no business involved. Any handicap changes and current handicaps should be shown somewhere. People want to know who’s handicap is what and what is the basis for people getting moved up. Basically anything that has to do with the tourney should be treated as public information that is shown for all to see, this boosts the integrity of the event and people do appreciate that.

That's about all I can think of at the moment, plus I am working after being in Illinois the last two days.[/QUO Great post. I think your spot on with everything except raising the entry fee. I think $35 is about right. Times are tough right now for alot of people.
 
I think its just because we're man enough to post without hiding behind a false name. Obviously you know us all pretty well. And i am pretty sure i know who you are, and i think you should know i would call you out for doing this. If im wrong so be it, if i am right ill see you at the pool hall some afternoon soon.

You are so funny. You have no idea who I am. But keep on guessing. See you at the hall:)
 
I think it's funny. If you post your opinion on here and someone disagrees. The first thing they want to know is WHO ARE YOU !! What does matter? This site is set up so anyone can post what they think. As long as you go by there rules. As far as calling the owners if Jon didn't want it to get to them he shouldn't have spread his negativity on this site. That's all I am saying.


Whether someone agrees with your opinion or not...giving it means nothing if YOU won't claim it as your own, and I don't mean your screenname will claim it; I mean YOU.

I have a screenname on here as well, but I post my opinions and have NO PROBLEM telling someone that I, Robb Bauer, post as trustyrusty on AZB. Anonymous screennames allow for the internet tough guy syndrome to set in.....don't do that. If you frequent Big Dogs and know many of the players there, just state who you are. It will lend credibility to opinions as well.

Sorry to break into the Des Moines thread guys...but I'm with Mikey, just say who you are!
 
Whether someone agrees with your opinion or not...giving it means nothing if YOU won't claim it as your own, and I don't mean your screenname will claim it; I mean YOU.

I have a screenname on here as well, but I post my opinions and have NO PROBLEM telling someone that I, Robb Bauer, post as trustyrusty on AZB. Anonymous screennames allow for the internet tough guy syndrome to set in.....don't do that. If you frequent Big Dogs and know many of the players there, just state who you are. It will lend credibility to opinions as well.

Sorry to break into the Des Moines thread guys...but I'm with Mikey, just say who you are!

Trusty good to hear from you, and you are more than welcome here.

This makes more sense to me now.
 
Trusty good to hear from you, and you are more than welcome here.

This makes more sense to me now.

lol - I find myself reading this thread WAY too often....wish my area had as many characters that would make a post like this go, but alas, most not only wouldn't, but many wouldn't know how. :eek:

BTW, I had a blast up there when the Frost/SVB thing went down, and would definitely stop back in anytime I am FORCED (kidding) to go to IOWA. :thumbup:
 
lol - I find myself reading this thread WAY too often....wish my area had as many characters that would make a post like this go, but alas, most not only wouldn't, but many wouldn't know how. :eek:

BTW, I had a blast up there when the Frost/SVB thing went down, and would definitely stop back in anytime I am FORCED (kidding) to go to IOWA. :thumbup:

I've heard both sides, that it's cool we keep a thread up. Talking about all the good and bad around here. And that we are all stupid people who should kill ourselves. :P

Either way most the time its fun. And just like i've said multiple times, what i say on here i am more than willing to talk about in person. I don't hide, for better or worse.
 
I've heard both sides, that it's cool we keep a thread up. Talking about all the good and bad around here. And that we are all stupid people who should kill ourselves. :P

Either way most the time its fun. And just like i've said multiple times, what i say on here i am more than willing to talk about in person. I don't hide, for better or worse.

Same here brother....I won't say something anonymously, or even behind someone's back that I wouldn't say directly to their face. What's the point??!! Keep up the local updates and woofing, at least it's a good read (can't be said for quite a bit of the junk posted on this site).
 
Whether someone agrees with your opinion or not...giving it means nothing if YOU won't claim it as your own, and I don't mean your screenname will claim it; I mean YOU.

I have a screenname on here as well, but I post my opinions and have NO PROBLEM telling someone that I, Robb Bauer, post as trustyrusty on AZB. Anonymous screennames allow for the internet tough guy syndrome to set in.....don't do that. If you frequent Big Dogs and know many of the players there, just state who you are. It will lend credibility to opinions as well.

Sorry to break into the Des Moines thread guys...but I'm with Mikey, just say who you are!

ROBB Thanks for your input but I think for the time being I'll keep things the way they are. I'm not trying to be a be a internet tough guy. But I'm not going to be like Mike Athens looking over my sholder when I'm playing pool just because I'm not in with some of the guys at big dogs.
 
ROBB Thanks for your input but I think for the time being I'll keep things the way they are. I'm not trying to be a be a internet tough guy. But I'm not going to be like Mike Athens looking over my sholder when I'm playing pool just because I'm not in with some of the guys at big dogs.

Mike should look up PARANOIA. Noone cares nearly as much about him as he'd like to think.
 
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ROBB Thanks for your input but I think for the time being I'll keep things the way they are. I'm not trying to be a be a internet tough guy. But I'm not going to be like Mike Athens looking over my sholder when I'm playing pool just because I'm not in with some of the guys at big dogs.

I don't think you have to worry about being IN with people just to go shoot pool. I know there are some clicks around and there usually people who are better friends or that play on the same team or bet and travel together. your not going to have to look over your shoulder for expressing your opinion.
 
I agree absolutely nothing is going to happen to Mike. I do not know one single person who wants to physically harm him in any way shape form or fashion and it should stay that way. If this thread needs to be moved to an MMA forum there's a major problem.

I also want to say I speak for myself when I make a post. I'm not dragging others in or down with the ship, it's just me. I feel like when we get to contraversial topics and people want to make opinions and no one knows who they are they are doing no good. I also feel like Justabanger 2's last post gives off the impression that people have to watch their back around here and that's simply not true.

It's really no fun for me right now and I love pool, hell I am more likely to be seen pumping quarters into a bar table than at the pool hall these days. I'd invite people out to shoot for fun but I don't know if anyone would show up.
 
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