Upright Stance...

[West Point 1987]

So, here's the deal. I've shot pool for almost 30 years successfully with a low stance, my chin on or very near the cue. I've been struggling lately, having trouble hitting the OB precisely. I began to question my vision center, but it doesn't seem to be off. The last three sessions, I tried shooting with my chin about a foot or more above the cue line, and bingo. Problem solved. Apart from straight pool players and older players that have trouble physically getting down low on the shot, does this seem normal? Has something changed in my depth perception? I can't explain it, but a more upright stance seems to work VERY well for me, I'm drilling them. Even long tough cut shots are more consistent for me.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Not an instructor. However, my opinion on your improvement is it's a placebo affect. People are very quick to say xyz change made them play better. Now the test will be are you at this new level in 2 months? Can you beat people in 2 months you could not beat now?

 

[West Point 1987]

Not an instructor. However, my opinion on your improvement is it's a placebo affect. People are very quick to say xyz change made them play better. Now the test will be are you at this new level in 2 months? Can you beat people in 2 months you could not beat now?

I'm open to that possibility...but the difference was SO dramatic, I'm going to have to stick with it and see if it's for real. My CB control was much better, too. I'm theorizing that something has happened to my vision with respect to depth perception over the last couple of years. For some reason, the angle looks right when I get down low, but it's not. When my head's a little higher over the shot, everything clicks. It looks right, and turns out to be right. I'm not standing up high like an elderly straight pool player, just hovering about a foot above the cue, like Corey Deuel.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Run with it! Enjoy it Moments like these make the game so much fun, especially when we've been playing it all our lives.

 

[Pidge]

May or may not be your vision. I would be more inclined to say its something to do with your mechanics. With the chin on the cue the shooter is much more compact, so a slight change in the mechanics can make their entire body move. For example, stick your chin on your cue and grip the cue as tight as you can and do some quick practice strokes whilst keeping the chin on the cue. The head has no option but to lift up, right? All that movement is detrimental to the final outcome. Loosening the grip, or even taking the chin off the cue a few inches can fix the body movement. It may be that raising the head so dramatically has stopped any movement when cueing. It has its downsides though which I'm sure you will find out eventually if you keep at it. One being its harder to cue straight in an upright stance. When you have a low stance you have the chin, chest, and both hands to keep the cue straight, but when you are upright you take the chin and chest away, so there is more chance of sideways movement.

I may be wrong and it may be a shift of your vision that's showing the good results, but I wouldn't bet on it. At least not if you have simply moved the head up, and not to the side slightly.

 

[14.1 Forever]

So, here's the deal. I've shot pool for almost 30 years successfully with a low stance, my chin on or very near the cue. I've been struggling lately, having trouble hitting the OB precisely. I began to question my vision center, but it doesn't seem to be off. The last three sessions, I tried shooting with my chin about a foot or more above the cue line, and bingo. Problem solved. Apart from straight pool players and older players that have trouble physically getting down low on the shot, does this seem normal? Has something changed in my depth perception? I can't explain it, but a more upright stance seems to work VERY well for me, I'm drilling them. Even long tough cut shots are more consistent for me.

Over the years most of us develop glitches in our game.

Many players bend over too far which might cause your head to tilt ... keep your eyes level. By changing to a more upright stance you might have eliminated a head tilt resulting in a better view of the OB by staying on the vertical axis. Try it. Lower to your old stance and see if your head has a tendency to tilt ... then raise slowly to your new upright stance and see if you can feel your eyes level out.

Another possibility, the more upright position will let you see the angle of the shot better before you get down on the shot. A lower height is better for aiming. Coming up a little could release tension in your neck. Try different levels until the tension is gone.

There are also other possibilities ... aging eyes, stroke arm, grip, bridges used, etc. If you want to investigate further ... Have a "Qualified Instructor" perform a stroke analysis.

Keep on stroking and stay on the vertical axis!!

 

[FranCrimi]

I'm open to that possibility...but the difference was SO dramatic, I'm going to have to stick with it and see if it's for real. My CB control was much better, too. I'm theorizing that something has happened to my vision with respect to depth perception over the last couple of years. For some reason, the angle looks right when I get down low, but it's not. When my head's a little higher over the shot, everything clicks. It looks right, and turns out to be right. I'm not standing up high like an elderly straight pool player, just hovering about a foot above the cue, like Corey Deuel.

Could be your vision but I think it may be that you've inadvertently adjusted your alignment when you stood taller, and it corrected the flaws you experienced while standing low.

It may turn out to be a temporary fix since you don't know exactly what it was that you may have corrected.

If it happens to you again, think of it as a puzzle to be solved. Filming yourself standing low and tall might give you some clues. It may take some time to figure out. Feel free to post vids of yourself shooting in both positions. Maybe we can spot something.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

iusedtoberich makes a good point, but there is no shame or sin in having your head a foot above the cue stick. A lot of players do very well from there. There is a thing as too high but one foot isn't it--and I have a lot of older students who are unable to get all the way down over the cue stick as it is.

 

[West Point 1987]

Thanks everyone for your input. Lots to consider. The closest advice that resonates to what I'm experiencing is the possibility that my head tilts or turns slightly when I'm all the way down. That makes a LOT of sense. Mechanics isn't the problem; I can and do hit the OB precisely where I want, it's just that on certain angles, it's the wrong spot. On certain angles, at 8-12 inches above the cue stick it looks perfectly fine; but when I lower all the way down, it looks wrong; then I apparently adjust or steer and end up hitting it too thick. When I'm all the way down, thin cuts or thick hits are fine...as I approach the half ball hit angle, I invariably dog it too thick. It's not throw, either, I understand that phenomenon very well (I use it, too :smile.

Anyway, got a tournament/tour stop tomorrow, I'm gonna drive on with this and see how it holds up under pressure.

 

[FranCrimi]

Now wait a minute.... You wrote in your first post that you're having trouble when you are down low.

Now you clarify that it's only as you are approaching half-ball hits.

That's a huge change from your first post.

I would not have responded the way I did earlier with this additional information.

When we stand low on shots, perspective on certain angles can become a little fuzzy. That's why it's important to trust what you see when you stand taller as you are lowering yourself to the shot.

Maybe the issue really is that you are suddenly recognizing that a certain angle range does look different when you are low. And maybe you forgot that before you realized this, you were just trusting what you initially determined as the point of contact, and now you are not trusting it.

Trust is a must.

OR --- Maybe you've changed your aiming process (consciously or unconsciously) and stopped taking note of the contact point BEFORE you got down on the shot. This would also affect shots that appear a little fuzzy from the low position.

 

[Ratta]

great Posting fran
hope all is well overseas^^

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Fran is correct. I recommend Kranicki's Answers to a Pool Player's Prayers as he explains and diagnoses the visual acuity issues between seeing a shot above the balls then bending lower to shoot them, and includes cures and visual fixes. I also have an article on how to adjust your eyes for this visual change.

Don't give up! It's the greatest feeling when you are "on" visually and can see the balls going in, then they go in! I love those wow moments.

 

[West Point 1987]

Now wait a minute.... You wrote in your first post that you're having trouble when you are down low.

Now you clarify that it's only as you are approaching half-ball hits.

That's a huge change from your first post.

I would not have responded the way I did earlier with this additional information.

When we stand low on shots, perspective on certain angles can become a little fuzzy. That's why it's important to trust what you see when you stand taller as you are lowering yourself to the shot.

Maybe the issue really is that you are suddenly recognizing that a certain angle range does look different when you are low. And maybe you forgot that before you realized this, you were just trusting what you initially determined as the point of contact, and now you are not trusting it.

Trust is a must.

OR --- Maybe you've changed your aiming process (consciously or unconsciously) and stopped taking note of the contact point BEFORE you got down on the shot. This would also affect shots that appear a little fuzzy from the low position.

Fran: Sorry for the misunderstanding...and thank you for your advice! I think you're correct, there is a confidence/trust thing with those shots. And I need to trust the contact point I find when I'm up and not let it shift on me when I'm down. It's funny, the half-ball hit angle from the middle of the table to the corner pocket used to always be one of my "cinch shots", I never even thought twice about them. I could juice them, too, really draw flat across and spin the CB back off the rail for position. Those have abandoned me lately. I'm gonna have to find that trust again.

An opponent just told me he noticed a very slight tilt to my head when I'm down low...I turned my head slightly toward my bridge arm/shoulder, straightening out my eyes and fixed something. Everyone was right, the elevated perspective may have had more to do with my head position than parallax view. I'm going to keep at it, and I'll take what you said to heart about taking note of the contact point when I'm up.

 

[West Point 1987]

Fran is correct. I recommend Kranicki's Answers to a Pool Player's Prayers as he explains and diagnoses the visual acuity issues between seeing a shot above the balls then bending lower to shoot them, and includes cures and visual fixes. I also have an article on how to adjust your eyes for this visual change.

Don't give up! It's the greatest feeling when you are "on" visually and can see the balls going in, then they go in! I love those wow moments.

Matt: Thanks for the article...a real "eye opener" (or is it "closer"?). :wink: Lots to consider there...

 

[owll]

for me, when i get down on to a shot, i line up standing up, as i drop down into my stance, from about 18" above to chin on cue, my cue will rotate from left to right. if i dont get low enough i wll be lined up through the cue ball ccw somewhat from my vision center. if i get too low, cue will be slightly cw from my vision center.

so when i get down, my cue is lined up to the left of shot line, and rotates to the shot line.

Maybe your lower, or higher than you used to be....which is causing your cue to skewed off center. (watch your cue tip as you drop into stance).

This stuff may not apply to you, it does apply to me....hope it helps...don.