Using a "Touch" of outside on cut shots

boogieman said:
And when you are on conditions that amplify throw, like old dirty balls you must do something to mitigate it or you will miss many shots you would have made with clean balls.

One other thing for inside or outside, you can use it to cheat the pocket or manufacture an angle, say you got too straight on a shot to get shape... with throw and inside/outside you can make a bit of shape, not ideal as if you had left an angle in the first place, but it can bail you out in less than ideal situations.
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Patrick Johnson: Both ways (adding "gearing" sidespin or adjusting aim for throw) have variables to adjust for:
- with spin you have to compensate for squirt/swerve and use the right amount of tip offset
- without spin you have to compensate for throw with the current cloth/ball/etc. conditions

I think so many pros use gearing sidespin because (1) they're good at it, and (2) it minimizes the effects of cloth/ball/etc. conditions.

pj
chgo
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These are both great insights. Thanks for these!! Seems obvious once I read it, but that all definitely makes a lot of sense. I play on everything from pristine Diamond tables and brand new balls to beer stained dive bar Valley tables, so it definitely would make sense as far being consistent on different playing conditions. Wow.. that actually makes a ton of sense. The effects of throw are obviously very different on the different equipment. So these methods would help neutralize that to a degree. :unsure:
 
Casting 9s said:
With TOI, Coming from the inside of the cue-ball (often referred to as a "heavy" ball), you can let your stroke out more as you are deflecting the cue ball into the object ball. Also, because this mitigates the post-contact spin transferred to the cue-ball, it deadens the cue ball after contact and makes it appear to "float" to the next position. Because of this, you are able to pound the ball and still keep it on a string. To me, this is the biggest "edge" TOI offers, although I will concede that I'm not entirely sure that isn't just a "comfort" thing for me. However, I'm fully open to the idea that it's all nonsense. That is why I am trying to get to the bottom of all of this TOI/TOO stuff.

TOO is more of a "touch/feel" thing to me. Someone above said it best, it's like you are "chipping" the balls in. Since you are hitting the outside of the cue-ball (the "lighter" side), a heavy stroke isn't necessary. I've found it easier to overrun my landing zone when spinning balls in with TOO, however, I also have gone on very long runs using it.

I'm not trying to be facetious with this thread. I'm trying to honestly assess if these methods are a + net gain over using center ball. I practice a LOT, and I want to buy in to a method and just stick with it. A lot of times I run racks for hours just practicing using nothing but the center ball axis. I don't see a huge difference from using TOI or TOO. I am so comfortable with TOI now that it's just my default. I used it when I first started playing pool as I wanted to have something to focus on, and it's just ingrained in me now. But I have advanced to the point where I am examining and questioning everything and open to trying some new things and evolve.
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A good test shot for TOI is a perfectly straight shot for power draw, with the cue ball close to the object ball, where you would typically not apply sidespin. Hit it hard--TOI has its uses.
 
Not sure how to explain it but I feel that TOI corrects flaws in my alignment and stroke. So maybe it brings me closer to center?
 
Patrick Johnson said:
What’s its use there?

pj
chgo
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You can use a non-typical stroke to store a significant amount of potential energy for a powerful strike. Earl demonstrates a similar technique: you can see his cue aligned with the center ball, and then, at the top of his backswing—where the cue is pulled all the way back—he slightly shifts the cue to one side on some shots (!) before shooting it straight forward again.

I know it seems physically unlikely, but some players find it easier to power draw starting with TOI. I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps there is a way to harness wrist movement, similar to uncocking the wrists during a golf swing. Wobbly Stroke understands the biomechanics of pool and may provide insight.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Probly just makes you focus more on tip placement…

pj
chgo
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Yep, thats exactly what it is. CJ is very adamant that TOI does not correct any errors in stroke. He goes in detail about that in his TOI video and even shows drills on how to test your stroke and how to get it straightened out. He specifically talks about how if you don't have a straight stroke, TOI or any other method of aiming won't do you any good.

But, like PJ said, it forces you to pay close attention to where you are cueing, and it does give you a target to focus in on, and and so in a way it does help you with your stroke because you are much more aware of how you are aligning, aiming, placing your bridge hand, and cueing.
 
If, for some reason, you HAVE TO roll a ball in slowly, a touch of outside will protect you from a skid and will also allow you to aim easier. Keep in mind that most top players shoot a majority of their shots with some kind of english and will not usually misjudge deflection/swerve. If a shot is make or break and position is not really an issue, a high percentage of players will use outside on it. Throw is not only variable from day to day, but also can vary throughout the set. It can be brutal if you are a center ball only player playing on tight pockets. Outside seems to even out the variation a bit.

A touch of inside will allow you to shoot a shot firmly without the cueball gettting out of control. It lets you, or one may argue "makes you", shoot certain shots more firmly. Shooting shots with a more uniform speed, and at a speed the player is usually more comfortable with, can increase consistency in pocketing as well as position.

For top echelon play, you must be able to shoot any shot with any kind of speed and english. The above are tools, which can be used, but can also hold you back if overused.
 
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