Using Aikido in billiards.

OneArmed

the agony of billiards...
Silver Member
I don't know how many of you are familiar with Aikido, or other martial arts. I don't have much training outside of Aikido, so also I do not know how much focus is placed on energy and the philosophical side in other arts. However, over the past month or so I've been using Aikido actively in pool, and not by throwing my opponents when I miss a shot either...

It has been quite awhile since I was active in Aikido training due to injuries. As the years go by, some of what I learned tended to drift away from my brain. I wasn't practicing actively, nor always applying what I had learned in day to day activities.

I came into pool a little under 3 years ago, and have been hooked since. It used to be something of a side thought, just out while drinking and being a banger. I quit drinking alcohol about the same time, so needed to replace something, and billiards happened to be that substitution. I found that great game of 14.1, and that game to this day continues to challenge my brain (and frustrate the hell out of me).

I'm not a great pool player, mostly due to my own inexperience and very late start into the game. I can make some phenomenal shots, but I'm by no means consistent. At a little weekly tournament, I jumped into a conversation with a few players before it started (thanks Demi/Beau), and it was focused on the mental aspect of the game and Eastern Philosophy. At that point I asked myself how Aikido had left my everyday thought. After 10+ years, that training just seemed to escape me somehow. How could I not have been using this!!??

Aikido is all about blending and your center. You blend with your opponent, and seem to come from his/her point of view. It's not about attack. You really use your Ki (energy) to focus everything. (similar to Chinese "Ch'i").

You can use Aikido in most every day activities, whether it is pool, conversations/debates, exercise, ect. When coming to the table now, I try to remember to center myself, and focus my own Ki. You can feel the floor and its support beneath you coming into your hara. By centering yourself, it gets you into stroke much more easily. By respecting the opponent, the table and the equipment, it keeps you more in tune with it.

Now if I can just keep doing this, I'll feel a bit more dangerous at the table. I've noticed my game go up a bit since I've been using focusing exercises, and pulling myself out of the downward plateau I've been stuck at, which has seemed to last forever. When I don't stay centered, I notice myself re-entering into bad habits.

Does anyone else use martial arts training or meditative exercises at the table? I venture to assume that it is quite common at the higher levels of pool, but any thoughts?
 

Blackjack

Illuminati Blacksmack
Silver Member
OneArmed said:
I don't know how many of you are familiar with Aikido, or other martial arts. I don't have much training outside of Aikido, so also I do not know how much focus is placed on energy and the philosophical side in other arts. However, over the past month or so I've been using Aikido actively in pool, and not by throwing my opponents when I miss a shot either...

It has been quite awhile since I was active in Aikido training due to injuries. As the years go by, some of what I learned tended to drift away from my brain. I wasn't practicing actively, nor always applying what I had learned in day to day activities.

I came into pool a little under 3 years ago, and have been hooked since. It used to be something of a side thought, just out while drinking and being a banger. I quit drinking alcohol about the same time, so needed to replace something, and billiards happened to be that substitution. I found that great game of 14.1, and that game to this day continues to challenge my brain (and frustrate the hell out of me).

I'm not a great pool player, mostly due to my own inexperience and very late start into the game. I can make some phenomenal shots, but I'm by no means consistent. At a little weekly tournament, I jumped into a conversation with a few players before it started (thanks Demi/Beau), and it was focused on the mental aspect of the game and Eastern Philosophy. At that point I asked myself how Aikido had left my everyday thought. After 10+ years, that training just seemed to escape me somehow. How could I not have been using this!!??

Aikido is all about blending and your center. You blend with your opponent, and seem to come from his/her point of view. It's not about attack. You really use your Ki (energy) to focus everything. (similar to Chinese "Ch'i").

You can use Aikido in most every day activities, whether it is pool, conversations/debates, exercise, ect. When coming to the table now, I try to remember to center myself, and focus my own Ki. You can feel the floor and its support beneath you coming into your hara. By centering yourself, it gets you into stroke much more easily. By respecting the opponent, the table and the equipment, it keeps you more in tune with it.

Now if I can just keep doing this, I'll feel a bit more dangerous at the table. I've noticed my game go up a bit since I've been using focusing exercises, and pulling myself out of the downward plateau I've been stuck at, which has seemed to last forever. When I don't stay centered, I notice myself re-entering into bad habits.

Does anyone else use martial arts training or meditative exercises at the table? I venture to assume that it is quite common at the higher levels of pool, but any thoughts?

I believe you and I have talked about this privately, but I have used something similar for years. I have also used self hypnosis. Due to my Parkinson's Disease, I need all the help I can get these days, lol so I am willing try just about anything - even this.

It does work.

I always go back to the movie Bagger Vance, which is a story based on Hinduism
INFO HERE

Interesting topic.
 

Koop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Aikido

IMO, that is the baddest of all martial arts. I had a good friend who was a brown belt. Nicest guy on the planet but I would NEVER want to piss him off.
 

SPetty

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
C.J. Wiley was a very good pro player who practiced some type of martial arts.
 

OneArmed

the agony of billiards...
Silver Member
Blackjack said:
I believe you and I have talked about this privately, but I have used something similar for years. I have also used self hypnosis. Due to my Parkinson's Disease, I need all the help I can get these days, lol so I am willing try just about anything - even this.

It does work.

I always go back to the movie Bagger Vance, which is a story based on Hinduism
INFO HERE

Interesting topic.

Yes, I believe we had a discussion about it before, and I still haven't gotten a chance to see that movie/read that book. It's on my list again... :)

This is a good book for any one curious about the mental aspects and practical applications of Aikido. He says it better than I ever could...

http://www.amazon.com/Way-Aikido-Lessons-American-Sensei/dp/0452279720

I've never tried self-hypnosis, but I suppose it is similar to meditation.
 

Fuji-whopper

Fargo: 457...play some?
Silver Member
Man I thought you meant the art of self defense, like when you hook yourself with ball in hand or something. What a gyp, ha ha.

Actually I have read Zen Archery and other books including ones about Aikido and try to use what I can while playing pool. Some things definitely help but doing it all the time is where the discipline comes in.
 

okinawa77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Alertness/Awareness/Mentally Sharp

OneArmed said:
I don't know how many of you are familiar with Aikido, or other martial arts. I don't have much training outside of Aikido, so also I do not know how much focus is placed on energy and the philosophical side in other arts. However, over the past month or so I've been using Aikido actively in pool, and not by throwing my opponents when I miss a shot either...

It has been quite awhile since I was active in Aikido training due to injuries. As the years go by, some of what I learned tended to drift away from my brain. I wasn't practicing actively, nor always applying what I had learned in day to day activities.

I came into pool a little under 3 years ago, and have been hooked since. It used to be something of a side thought, just out while drinking and being a banger. I quit drinking alcohol about the same time, so needed to replace something, and billiards happened to be that substitution. I found that great game of 14.1, and that game to this day continues to challenge my brain (and frustrate the hell out of me).

I'm not a great pool player, mostly due to my own inexperience and very late start into the game. I can make some phenomenal shots, but I'm by no means consistent. At a little weekly tournament, I jumped into a conversation with a few players before it started (thanks Demi/Beau), and it was focused on the mental aspect of the game and Eastern Philosophy. At that point I asked myself how Aikido had left my everyday thought. After 10+ years, that training just seemed to escape me somehow. How could I not have been using this!!??

Aikido is all about blending and your center. You blend with your opponent, and seem to come from his/her point of view. It's not about attack. You really use your Ki (energy) to focus everything. (similar to Chinese "Ch'i").

You can use Aikido in most every day activities, whether it is pool, conversations/debates, exercise, ect. When coming to the table now, I try to remember to center myself, and focus my own Ki. You can feel the floor and its support beneath you coming into your hara. By centering yourself, it gets you into stroke much more easily. By respecting the opponent, the table and the equipment, it keeps you more in tune with it.

Now if I can just keep doing this, I'll feel a bit more dangerous at the table. I've noticed my game go up a bit since I've been using focusing exercises, and pulling myself out of the downward plateau I've been stuck at, which has seemed to last forever. When I don't stay centered, I notice myself re-entering into bad habits.

Does anyone else use martial arts training or meditative exercises at the table? I venture to assume that it is quite common at the higher levels of pool, but any thoughts?

I have found that lessons in martial arts help me in pool and life, and lessons in pool have helped me in life.

I studied Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Judo, Jujitsu, and others. I think the pool stance is similiar to the Aikido stance and the Karate large cat stance.
I feel that the Aikido stance and stepping method is the most superior form of footwork, and is the key to Aikido. I like to combine Aikido's foot work with Shurite Karate.

When practicing Aikido for knife attacks, I think this really gets your mind mentally alert. And being able to reach that high level of alertness/awareness helps me play better pool.

As it is in everything, if you do something repetitively, it becomes a reflex or subconcious action. And I am finding that I have been playing pool in what I call "Auto Mode".

I stopped practicing martial arts when I realized that my reflex actions were too dangerous. I had too many near misses whereas I blocked my own attacks with my opposite hand just before delivering a deadly blow.

Sometimes switching to a different cue or taking a break from pool will help me break that auto mode, and I play much better pool when I am more self concious and more aware of my body movements.

The best pool I ever played was when I was "feeling" all the movements of the table, cue, balls, and self.

-Mathew
 

Randy9Ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is an interesting thread! I studied Tang So Doo and Hapkido for a while 20 plus years ago and have recently been thinking about getting back into the martial arts for physical fitness and for perhaps the very reason discussed in this thread. I am currently debating between Aikido and American Kenpo (the system taught by Ed Parker). If anyone has experience with both I would appreciate any comparative feedback you can povide.

Thanks,

Randy
 

halhoule

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Randy9Ball said:
This is an interesting thread! I studied Tang So Doo and Hapkido for a while 20 plus years ago and have recently been thinking about getting back into the martial arts for physical fitness and for perhaps the very reason discussed in this thread. I am currently debating between Aikido and American Kenpo (the system taught by Ed Parker). If anyone has experience with both I would appreciate any comparative feedback you can povide.

Thanks,

Randy
pool has absolutely no relationship to martial arts. IF YOU ARE A POOL PLAYER, PLAY POOL. WHAT PROFESSIONAL AIMING SYSTEM DO
YOU USE.
 

mongoose-

Banned
All forms of martial arts bring something to the table. Myself am a brown belt in kenpo. I use a lot of the medatation breathing to relax those little nervous muscles while in competition. So in my opinion if you like the matial arts it will definatly improve you not only in pool but in life in general as well.
 

StevenPWaldon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Someone take away this man's keyboard and mouse. ....and Caps Lock button.

halhoule said:
pool has absolutely no relationship to martial arts. IF YOU ARE A POOL PLAYER, PLAY POOL. WHAT PROFESSIONAL AIMING SYSTEM DO
YOU USE.
 

dirtypool40

I love this freakin' game
Silver Member
You bring whatever expreience and expertise you have to your current focus.

I have been a compeititve shooter, so I know what it's like to compete against yourself and the course (/table).

I know it's the indian not the arrow.

I know how to focus on the tough spots, and that sometimes good players need to come with good shots.

I know that the best have truly mastered the fundamentals and rely on them every shot.




I've also taken Aikido and some other martial arts. Aikido tends to be circular and flowing, like cruising out a rack feels. Natural and centered.


Beyond that, it's just what works for you....
 

Fuji-whopper

Fargo: 457...play some?
Silver Member
halhoule said:
pool has absolutely no relationship to martial arts. IF YOU ARE A POOL PLAYER, PLAY POOL. WHAT PROFESSIONAL AIMING SYSTEM DO
YOU USE.


My aiming system is trying to retain it's amateur status due to sponsorship constraints, maybe in a couple of years it will qualify for "professional" standards. Hal is right, if you are a pool player you can't do ANYTHING else except play pool 24 hours a day/7 days a week.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Hal is right, if you are a pool player you can't do ANYTHING else except play pool 24 hours a day/7 days a week.

That may be true for pros, but for the rest of us (the other 999,999 out of every million) it's not, and martial arts skills can help.

pj
chgo
 

Randy9Ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fart sniffer said:
My aiming system is trying to retain it's amateur status due to sponsorship constraints, maybe in a couple of years it will qualify for "professional" standards. Hal is right, if you are a pool player you can't do ANYTHING else except play pool 24 hours a day/7 days a week.

With all due respect, you're BOTH wrong! The topic of this thread is not aiming systems rather its the mental side of the game and how what is taught via eastern philosophy in the martial arts can be applied to our approach to the pool table. For many players, just practicing pool 24 hours a day will not help them with their mental approach or shall I say "attitude" at the table in competition.
 

Fuji-whopper

Fargo: 457...play some?
Silver Member
Oh wow, I was trying to be over the top with the sarcasm but I guess it was missed.

Aikido or any other martial art where you try to bring your body, mind and soul together is going to have components that can help you in other areas of life including Billiards of course. One of my favorite stories is when the student couldn't recall which side of the doorway he had left his slippers, his teacher told him he hadn't reached the level he thought he had because his level of consciousness wasn't high enough. Everything counts.

Zen philosophy is something I have read about for years now and keep trying to learn more and more about, Sammy Diep even said something about it in our interview which suprised me. Sorry if my post wasn't clear, I believe in everything you guys have said and hope you post more about it.
 

scottjen26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great thread, I too took Aikido many years ago, I only managed it for about 6 months due to a volleyball injury to my thumb (very bad when people are trying to grab it and twist it), starting to take up golf at about the same time, and my discovered aversion to rolling over and over - I never did get past the nausea feeling, no matter what I tried. A very impressive form of martial arts, and the few things I learned were definitely nasty...

Interestingly enough, having rebuilt my pool game after a long layoff and really analyzing (over analyzing some would say) everything I do, my stance is very much like an Aikido stance - back foot perpendicular to the line of the shot, front foot slightly to the side and pointing more or less down the line of the shot. As a previous poster said, very similar and the general movement they teach you is very applicable to many things. And certainly any mental focus learned in any martial art or similar training is very applicable to pool and life in general, no matter what anyone says.

Just my 2 cents. And Neil, I at least got your sarcasm... :grin:
Scott
 

Fuji-whopper

Fargo: 457...play some?
Silver Member
Going to be at Bankshots this weekend Scott? Thanks for getting my sense of humor you have more exposure to it than almost anyone so I wouldn't doubt that you got my stupid post.

It's hard learning to tumble in Aikido and you definitely have to trust yourself, others and your teachings in order to succeed. Wish I had the time, money and ability to do Aikido since they have a couple of dojos in town with reputable senseis.
 

Randy9Ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fart sniffer said:
Oh wow, I was trying to be over the top with the sarcasm but I guess it was missed.

Aikido or any other martial art where you try to bring your body, mind and soul together is going to have components that can help you in other areas of life including Billiards of course. One of my favorite stories is when the student couldn't recall which side of the doorway he had left his slippers, his teacher told him he hadn't reached the level he thought he had because his level of consciousness wasn't high enough. Everything counts.

Zen philosophy is something I have read about for years now and keep trying to learn more and more about, Sammy Diep even said something about it in our interview which suprised me. Sorry if my post wasn't clear, I believe in everything you guys have said and hope you post more about it.

Neil,

It's cool! Sorry I didn't catch on to your sarcasm earlier. Nice to see you feel the same way about this topic. Speaking of Aikido schools in the area, do you happen to know of one in Orange Park?

Thanks,

Randy
 

scottjen26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hoping to get there this weekend. And yes, learning and doing the tumbling drills just threw off my equilibrium and left me feeling queasy after every session, then a badly jammed/sprained thumb, weather getting warmer (when I was living in Wisconsin), etc. and I just slowly stopped going. Was cool though, loved watching some 110 pound 8th degree sensei from Chicago come to class and inflict pain and throw our black belts around like they were rag dolls, amazing, and all based on mental focus and physics/physiology...

Did you get my email the other day? Sent it to your work email. If not, I'll resend to your personal, or we can discuss live next time I see you.
Scott
 
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