Very Closed Stance Question

technoid101

technoid101

"fades in, fades out"
In my zeal to discover why my shots are missing the target (pocket) I have noticed that most missed shots are only off by fractions of an inch. I know, miss an inch miss a mile. Anyway I am looking at all aspects of my pre shot set up. I have noted that the “comfortable” stance that I get into when addressing my cue is very closed. Not the 45 to 30 degree angle that is recommended in the fundamentals that I have read and seen on instructional clips. It’s more like 20 to 15 degrees off of the stroke line that I set my cue at in my PSR. Secondly, my feet are pointed almost parallel to the stroke line.
If my stance is stable, (I had a friend try to push me over) and I feel comfortable at address, and my stroke is straight, is a tight closed stance any kind of hindrance? BTW I am primarily a left handed shooter.

Thanks for your advise.

Erik C.
 
Are you able to hit the cure ball with dead center follow and hit the target accurately? If so, you're good to go.

If not, make sure you're eyes are in the right place for you, and everything still works fine.
 
technoid101 said:
In my zeal to discover why my shots are missing the target (pocket) I have noticed that most missed shots are only off by fractions of an inch. I know, miss an inch miss a mile. Anyway I am looking at all aspects of my pre shot set up. I have noted that the “comfortable” stance that I get into when addressing my cue is very closed. Not the 45 to 30 degree angle that is recommended in the fundamentals that I have read and seen on instructional clips. It’s more like 20 to 15 degrees off of the stroke line that I set my cue at in my PSR. Secondly, my feet are pointed almost parallel to the stroke line.
If my stance is stable, (I had a friend try to push me over) and I feel comfortable at address, and my stroke is straight, is a tight closed stance any kind of hindrance? BTW I am primarily a left handed shooter.

Thanks for your advise.

Erik C.
Click to expand...

Erik, without actually seeing you shoot, it doesn't sound to me like your stance is all that stable, even though you feel that it is. A 15-20 degree angle, feet parallel to the stroke line ---- to me, that spells instability.

If I were you I'd keep experimenting. Do you experience occasional neck or shoulder pain? Sounds like you might.
 
technoid101 said:
In my zeal to discover why my shots are missing the target (pocket) I have noticed that most missed shots are only off by fractions of an inch. I know, miss an inch miss a mile. Anyway I am looking at all aspects of my pre shot set up. I have noted that the “comfortable” stance that I get into when addressing my cue is very closed. Not the 45 to 30 degree angle that is recommended in the fundamentals that I have read and seen on instructional clips. It’s more like 20 to 15 degrees off of the stroke line that I set my cue at in my PSR. Secondly, my feet are pointed almost parallel to the stroke line.
If my stance is stable, (I had a friend try to push me over) and I feel comfortable at address, and my stroke is straight, is a tight closed stance any kind of hindrance? BTW I am primarily a left handed shooter.

Thanks for your advise.

Erik C.
Click to expand...

Not an instructor here but here's why I don't like your stance:

When you are just standing facing the table (completely open stance - snooker style) with no cue stick in your hand and you allow your hands to just fall to your side, what position are they in? I'll answer my own question - your hand/wrist is in an optimal position to shoot pool. Now when you go from this position to a completely closed stance - look how your wrist is lying. It is now nearly 90 degrees out of line with a good pool stroke.

So, if you are using a completely closed stance you are going to be fighting against what your body's natural tendency is. This is why I think the more open stance is optimum for straight cueing. I think you would probably benefit from opening your stance up a bit and maybe even opening it up a lot. I know I did.
 
Here's the MOST important thing to understand about stance...there's no one correct stance for everyone. We are all built differently, just as we think differently, learn differently, and perceive differently. That's why there is no one singular "aiming method" that works for everyone. The stance should be comfortable (you can't stand in a way that causes you pain), sturdy, balanced, a tripod, allow free range of motion for your swing, and allow you to see the correct sight line of the shot.

Now, that said, how do you know your stroke is good? Just because you pocket balls doesn't mean you have a repeatable stroke. Have you ever had your stroke video analyzed? A qualified instructor can spot potential for error and inconsistency, and help correct it immediately...versus relying on your own perception, or those who don't know what to look for and spending years trying to fix it (never really "getting it" because you keep changing things). If, on the other hand, your stroke is as good as you think it is, the instructor can also help you find your "natural" stance...the one that has all the elements listed above.

Here's a test you can do yourself to check your stroke, right off Jerry Briesath's new dvds (although he taught it to me, Randyg, Mark Wilson, and many others 30+ years ago). If you have access to a table with a spot (black with a small white center), put your CB on the spot. Set up any shot and shoot it. Freeze at the end of your stroke, and see if your shaft is still covering the white dot. If not, your stroke isn't straight (for what could be many reasons).

BTW, if you, or any of your friends are going to Vegas next month, for the BCAPL, you can get a video analysis, and a report card of the analysis (with the opportunity to have it explained to you by some of the best instructors in the country), which gives you a stroke proficiency quotient, all for a measley $25.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
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Scott Lee said:
BTW, if you, or any of your friends are going to Vegas next month, for the BCAPL, you can get a video analysis, and a report card of the analysis (with the opportunity to have it explained to you by some of the best instructors in the country), which gives you a stroke proficiency quotient, all for a measley $25.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Sounds like a deal. I'm there on business and staying 2 miles away. What's the booth number?

Oh and can I have several instructors looking at the same time so we can have a group discussion on this? Kind of like a Mastermind Meeting.:groucho:
 
Scott Lee said:
BTW, if you, or any of your friends are going to Vegas next month, for the BCAPL, you can get a video analysis, and a report card of the analysis (with the opportunity to have it explained to you by some of the best instructors in the country), which gives you a stroke proficiency quotient, all for a measley $25.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott, I'll be at the show. Where is this taking place? Is it a PBIA booth or some other booth? Is the booth raising money for the PBIA?
 
Tom...It's not a booth. The Masters Pool School has a room where we hold free clinics, and also do the video evaluations. It's down the hall and across from where the pros are playing. Stop in and see us Mon-Fri 11am-5pm.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

3kushn said:
Sounds like a deal. I'm there on business and staying 2 miles away. What's the booth number?

Oh and can I have several instructors looking at the same time so we can have a group discussion on this? Kind of like a Mastermind Meeting.:groucho:
Click to expand...
 
Fran...We are not raising money for the PBIA. It's basically a free service we are offering the BCAPL players. We are covering our expenses only. Stop in and say hi. We're down the hall from the pros.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

FranCrimi said:
Scott, I'll be at the show. Where is this taking place? Is it a PBIA booth or some other booth? Is the booth raising money for the PBIA?
Click to expand...
 
technoid101 said:
In my zeal to discover why my shots are missing the target (pocket) I have noticed that most missed shots are only off by fractions of an inch. I know, miss an inch miss a mile. Anyway I am looking at all aspects of my pre shot set up. I have noted that the “comfortable” stance that I get into when addressing my cue is very closed. Not the 45 to 30 degree angle that is recommended in the fundamentals that I have read and seen on instructional clips. It’s more like 20 to 15 degrees off of the stroke line that I set my cue at in my PSR. Secondly, my feet are pointed almost parallel to the stroke line.
If my stance is stable, (I had a friend try to push me over) and I feel comfortable at address, and my stroke is straight, is a tight closed stance any kind of hindrance? BTW I am primarily a left handed shooter.

Thanks for your advise.

Erik C.
Click to expand...
if you consistenetly miss to one side it could be your "vision center" and have nothing to do with your stance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=680o8EChP_o
i am not an instructor and not trying to hijack the thread
but in a very demanding straight line drill i was missing to the left alot
i came to realize i sometimes do not pull back completely straight all the time and my head was alittle too much to the left
ive learned to listen to my inner self when things "dont seem right"
i get up and allign myself again
i now can more consistently (still not where i want to be but better)stop with no spin and also follow the the object ball into the pocket with the cue ball
of course my time with scott and the mother drills have contributed greatly to the repeatability of my stroke as my fundamentals have improved
 
Larry...We made some real progess last week! Remember...if you want that "turbo speed" effect, you have to keep everything relaxed. Keep up the good work! I hope you get to play in that tournament we talked about!:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

bbb said:
if you consistenetly miss to one side it could be your "vision center" and have nothing to do with your stance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=680o8EChP_o
i am not an instructor and not trying to hijack the thread
but in a very demanding straight line drill i was missing to the left alot
i came to realize i sometimes do not pull back completely straight all the time and my head was alittle too much to the left
ive learned to listen to my inner self when things "dont seem right"
i get up and allign myself again
i now can more consistently (still not where i want to be but better)stop with no spin and also follow the the object ball into the pocket with the cue ball
of course my time with scott and the mother drills have contributed greatly to the repeatability of my stroke as my fundamentals have improved
Click to expand...
 
I'll be there. Just not sure what day or time. Haven't received my schedule but I'm there all week. Looking forward to it.
 
Anybody at the Riv ought to take advantage of this. Pretty comprehensive analysis. Takes about 20 - 30 minutes. For $25 bucks going to a good cause, its a win win.

I had 3 guys working me over including Scott. Got a report/score card at the end. Scott gave me a 67. A "D":o in my book. Then tells me it was a good score.:rolleyes:

Also Randy was there teaching his thing. That was fun watching the light bulbs go on.
 
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